'High' Coolant Temps - Rads/ Fans not enough or something else?

[chrislocho]

Hey all,  recently completed my first watercooling build, components specs are as follows. 
Loop: 
5950x - EK Magnitude Waterblock
Strix 3090 - EK Strix waterblock + Backplate
EK Reflection Lian Li Front Distroplate 

Cooling: 
Top Rad  : PE 360 / 3x corsair QL120 fans (Exhaust)
Bottom Rad :  XE 360 / 3x corsair QL120 fans (Intake) 
Side : 3x corsair QL120 fans (Intake) 

 

At Idle, CPU @ 42-46, GPU @ 37-38, Water temp @ 36
Under Heavy Load , CPU Max 80, Average 75, GPU AVG 65, Water temp Max 48 Celcius

 

My temp probe is a XSPC inline probe plugged into the back of the GPU port.

Fans are linked to coolant temps and at about 43 degrees they are at full speed. 

I am having a hard time figuring out why my water temps are so high, I know the QL120s aren't the best for radiator cooling, but I didn't expect borderline scary temperatures while gaming. 

Seeing as the GPU temps are only 1-2 degrees above water temps at idle, I don't believe the water temp sensor is off (by too much). 

I don't really know how figure out what is the origin of my cooling problem, I'm starting to wonder if my rads have trapped air in them or something along the lines.  I haven't found that much into on how to bleed air out of top (upsidedown) rads, I assumed that over time the bubbles would be brought out. 

My second theory is that because of the 3 side intake fans, the case has so much positive pressure that the bottom rads arent working optimally. But removing the Glass side panel the idle temps drop only by 1 degree celcius...

 

Was hoping someone could please help me out ! Thanks :) 

 

 

[For Science!]

Ambient temp? Fan speed/curve?
Also, whether the temps for load differ without side panel.

[chrislocho]

Ambient is in an air conditioned room around 21-23 celcius.

 

I'm using bios fan control. All same speed via a fan hub. Max fan speed reached at 43 and above ~ 1600 rpm

Without side glass panel idle temps lower about 1-2 degrees to 35-36celcius. 

 

I will try to game without the panel later today and get back with the temps under load without panels! 

 

[Stahlmann]

Welcome to the forum!

 

While your system temps are fine overall, the water temp seems out of line to me seeing as your fans are running at max rpm.

 

For reference: My water only heats up to 39°C and stays there with my 6 Noctua fans (3 bottom intake, 3 top exhaust) only spinning at 1000rpm with my system under full load. I have a similar setup with the O11D, XE rad on top, SE rad bottom and a side distro plate. My 5600X will go up to 75°C max, my 3080 up to 55°C max. I know i have lower powered parts, but you have quite a bit more airflow with your fans running at full blast and overall more radiator surface area. 

 

What RPM is your pump running at?

 

Also check again if your loop order makes sense.

 

Remember to either quote people or mention ( for example @For Science!@Stahlmann) people, so we can see that you replied.

[bowrilla]

 

 

55 minutes ago, chrislocho said:

Hey all,  recently completed my first watercooling build, components specs are as follows. 
Loop: 
5950x - EK Magnitude Waterblock
Strix 3090 - EK Strix waterblock + Backplate
EK Reflection Lian Li Front Distroplate 

Cooling: 
Top Rad  : PE 360 / 3x corsair QL120 fans (Exhaust)
Bottom Rad :  XE 360 / 3x corsair QL120 fans (Intake) 
Side : 3x corsair QL120 fans (Intake) 

 

At Idle, CPU @ 42-46, GPU @ 37-38, Water temp @ 36
Under Heavy Load , CPU Max 80, Average 75, GPU AVG 65, Water temp Max 48 Celcius

 

From the distroplate I take it you're using an O11? That's actually pretty well ventilated.

 

• What pump are you using?
• Where is the pump plugged into?
• At what setting is the pump running and in what relation (if it is not entirely fixed)?
• Is the CPU overclocked?
• Has the CPU power and current limits been lifted/raised?
• Is PBO enabled?

Generally the pump has an effect but it should not be that huge.

58 minutes ago, chrislocho said:

My temp probe is a XSPC inline probe plugged into the back of the GPU port.

Not ideal as a position. This might potentially distort the reading as you take the temp at on of the heat sources under load. Reservoir temps will probably be more accurate for the average.

 

With a low pump speed and therefore flow rate the distortion WILL increase though because you will increase water temps more within the blocks while lowering them further down through the rads. The result is a bigger heat gradient within your loop itself. With higher flow rates the heat gradient will shrink to an area of 1-3K whil it can be in the range of 5-10K with very little flow.

 

However a bigger heat gradient between water and ambient air is very beneficial for the heat transfer, but you will reduce the efficiency between blocks and water (since that gradient will be decreased once you increase the gradient between water and ambient air).

 

1 hour ago, chrislocho said:

I am having a hard time figuring out why my water temps are so high, I know the QL120s aren't the best for radiator cooling, but I didn't expect borderline scary temperatures while gaming. 

The QL120 are in deed everything but ideal as radiator fans. At max RPM (1500RPM +-10%) they only come up with 1.55 mm-H2O static pressure. I wouldn't consider any fan below ~2mm at 1500-1800RPM for being used as radiator fans, although max static pressure does not tell much about static pressure at min or lower revs.

 

1 hour ago, chrislocho said:

I don't really know how figure out what is the origin of my cooling problem, I'm starting to wonder if my rads have trapped air in them or something along the lines.  I haven't found that much into on how to bleed air out of top (upsidedown) rads, I assumed that over time the bubbles would be brought out. 

Air pockets are indeed possible. There's no way to bleed the top rad (without additional G1/4" ports on them) other than tilting and shaking.

 

The fact that your water temps rise to an astonishingly 48°C considering 2x 360mm radiators. However, the EKWB XE series is a whopping 60mm in thickness. Those kind of thick radiators really need static pressure and benefit greatly from Push-Pull configurations. Your temps are far away from dangerous but indeed are not ideal.

 

My guess is:

• sub-par fans in combination with thick radiators
• trapped air in the top rad
• unsuited position of temp probe

 

[chrislocho]

20 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

For reference: My water only heats up to 39°C and stays there with my 6 Noctua fans (3 bottom intake, 3 top exhaust) only spinning at 1000rpm with my system under full load. I have a similar setup with the O11D, XE rad on top, SE rad bottom and a side distro plate. My 5600X will go up to 75°C max, my 3080 up to 55°C max. I know i have lower powered parts, but you have quite a bit more airflow with your fans running at full blast and overall more radiator surface area. 

 

What RPM is your pump running at?

 

Also check again if your loop order makes sense.

 

Yeah I'm leaning on the fact that my side intakes are causing so much positive pressure that the bottom fans cant function optimally bringing fresh air through the bottom radiator.
Its weird because I only found this problem playing Everspace 2, where my temps seem so extreme. Even at hours of horizon at max settings I only ever get to 46 MAX.  

I'm using the front distro plate so the loop order can't really be changed. 

Here's a link to the Distroplate so you can understand better !   

20 hours ago, bowrilla said:

 

 

From the distroplate I take it you're using an O11? That's actually pretty well ventilated.

 

• What pump are you using?
• Where is the pump plugged into?
• At what setting is the pump running and in what relation (if it is not entirely fixed)?
• Is the CPU overclocked?
• Has the CPU power and current limits been lifted/raised?
• Is PBO enabled?

Generally the pump has an effect but it should not be that huge.

Not ideal as a position. This might potentially distort the reading as you take the temp at on of the heat sources under load. Reservoir temps will probably be more accurate for the average.

 

With a low pump speed and therefore flow rate the distortion WILL increase though because you will increase water temps more within the blocks while lowering them further down through the rads. The result is a bigger heat gradient within your loop itself. With higher flow rates the heat gradient will shrink to an area of 1-3K whil it can be in the range of 5-10K with very little flow.

 

However a bigger heat gradient between water and ambient air is very beneficial for the heat transfer, but you will reduce the efficiency between blocks and water (since that gradient will be decreased once you increase the gradient between water and ambient air).

 

The QL120 are in deed everything but ideal as radiator fans. At max RPM (1500RPM +-10%) they only come up with 1.55 mm-H2O static pressure. I wouldn't consider any fan below ~2mm at 1500-1800RPM for being used as radiator fans, although max static pressure does not tell much about static pressure at min or lower revs.

 

Air pockets are indeed possible. There's no way to bleed the top rad (without additional G1/4" ports on them) other than tilting and shaking.

 

The fact that your water temps rise to an astonishingly 48°C considering 2x 360mm radiators. However, the EKWB XE series is a whopping 60mm in thickness. Those kind of thick radiators really need static pressure and benefit greatly from Push-Pull configurations. Your temps are far away from dangerous but indeed are not ideal.

 

My guess is:

• sub-par fans in combination with thick radiators
• trapped air in the top rad
• unsuited position of temp probe

 

 I'm using the reflection distro plate that already has a D5 pump attached. The pump runs from 30% to 100% with drop off delay scaling according to CPU Temps, there's an integrated flow meter in the distro plate so I can see that the flow rate isn't the culprit.  
The GPU isn't overclocked yet since I'm going to need to replace the LED and backplate for the coil whine. 
CPU, I put PBO and left it there since I'm not confident overclocking it with the current temp situation. 

I'll add another temp sensor in a spare reservoir plug, but I thought since the coolant is always flowing that the position doesn't really matter since the whole loop coolant would equalize? 

If this persists I might have to give up the QL120s and shelve them, RGB is still quite important to me (sorry) what fans would you recommend? I chose the QL120s over the Vardars when I was planning the build.  But to check without spending more money, you think I could get some sort of blower facing the bottom to force air and check if my fans are underperforming? 

Here's a link to the Distroplate so you can understand better ! 

[Stahlmann]

2 hours ago, chrislocho said:

 

Yeah I'm leaning on the fact that my side intakes are causing so much positive pressure that the bottom fans cant function optimally bringing fresh air through the bottom radiator.
Its weird because I only found this problem playing Everspace 2, where my temps seem so extreme. Even at hours of horizon at max settings I only ever get to 46 MAX.  

I'm using the front distro plate so the loop order can't really be changed. 

Here's a link to the Distroplate so you can understand better !   

 I'm using the reflection distro plate that already has a D5 pump attached. The pump runs from 30% to 100% with drop off delay scaling according to CPU Temps, there's an integrated flow meter in the distro plate so I can see that the flow rate isn't the culprit.  
The GPU isn't overclocked yet since I'm going to need to replace the LED and backplate for the coil whine. 
CPU, I put PBO and left it there since I'm not confident overclocking it with the current temp situation. 

I'll add another temp sensor in a spare reservoir plug, but I thought since the coolant is always flowing that the position doesn't really matter since the whole loop coolant would equalize? 

If this persists I might have to give up the QL120s and shelve them, RGB is still quite important to me (sorry) what fans would you recommend? I chose the QL120s over the Vardars when I was planning the build.  But to check without spending more money, you think I could get some sort of blower facing the bottom to force air and check if my fans are underperforming? 

Here's a link to the Distroplate so you can understand better ! 

You could also go for NF-F12 Chromax fans (Or industral PPC ones, so you have the flexibility to have up to 3000RPM for your thick rads) and then add Phanteks Halos RGB fan frames for the RGB effect. I have these fan frames and they look great. This way you can have good fans AND rgb.

 

But having an additional sensor in your res could also clear things up quite a bit. I'd try that first.

[bowrilla]

7 hours ago, chrislocho said:

The pump runs from 30% to 100% with drop off delay scaling according to CPU Temps, there's an integrated flow meter in the distro plate so I can see that the flow rate isn't the culprit.  

Those little spinners are worth nothing. All they show is that there is some flow. You cannot visually determine how much and even little flow will spin it fast enough for you not to be able to see anything. 

30% is not much flow but it should not have that much if an impact on the overall temps, especially since it's a D5.

 

7 hours ago, chrislocho said:

CPU, I put PBO and left it there since I'm not confident overclocking it with the current temp situation

PBO is pretty aggressive with the voltage. That will obviously increase heat output but it should not lead to those high coolant temps.

 

7 hours ago, chrislocho said:

I'll add another temp sensor in a spare reservoir plug, but I thought since the coolant is always flowing that the position doesn't really matter since the whole loop coolant would equalize? 

That depends on flow. The lower the flow the higher the heat gradient. Ideally you'd have 2 sensors: one directly in front of the radiators and one directly after. Then you can see that once you drop flow far enough the heat gradient grows probably to values in the range of 5-8K. If flow is sufficiently high the heat gradient shrinks to about 1K. At that point more flow does not give you any significant advantage but it will increase noise. With the blocks it's similar: high flow means lower heat gradient between inlet and outlet ports, low flow means higher heat gradient.

 

Considering you have 2 360 radiators, coolant temps well beyond 40°C (almost 50°C) however indicate something else is the culprit because flow alone should not play such a big of a role. This means that there's probably nothing majorly wrong with the heat transfer to the coolant. The issue is rooted with dumping the heat energy into the air.

 

Of course, temp sensors can varry in precision and small production differences can lead to misreadings (like more or less epoxy, 1-2mm variance in probe position. The probe itself is also not calibrated. I have 2 sensors (one XSPC plug type and one in my aquacomputer MPS flowmeter) and they usually are 1-2K apart. 

 

Taking all of that into account your reading might be 4-6K higher than the actual average coolant temps considering you're measuring directly at a heat source, potentially lower than ideal flow and variances in sensor accuracy.

 

7 hours ago, chrislocho said:

If this persists I might have to give up the QL120s and shelve them, RGB is still quite important to me (sorry) what fans would you recommend?

I'd probably do the same as @Stahlmannsuggested and go for the Phanteks Halos frames. Personally I prefer the look of dark blades with an led ring around over white blades with everything being lit.

 

Whatever you do though, I'd use push pull configs on radiators >45mm thickness. Which is why I wouldn't use rads that thick. Their performance benefits can only be achieved with more fans and high revs. The best 30mm radiators (HWlabs GTS) match the performance of midrange 45mm rads even in push pull and match the performance of midrange 56mm in push or pull (iirc). Even the best >56mm radiators need push pull to offer significant advantages over the best 30mm radiators. I rather spend 20 bucks more on the best rad but save the expenses for 2-3 fans per radiator and have ultimately less noise sources with less overall noise.

7 hours ago, chrislocho said:

But to check without spending more money, you think I could get some sort of blower facing the bottom to force air and check if my fans are underperforming? 

Well, first off I'd unplug the side fans that you think create too much positive pressure. I doubt it but check that first.

 

Next is setting the lowest pump setting to something like 40-50% which should not change anything noticeable in regards to noise.

 

If that doesn't help: tilting and shaking to make sure everything is properly bled. 

 

Then go to the radiator fans. If you have more fans around, through them on for a push pull config. That should improve performance. You don't need to screw them in just laying them on top should be enough as long as there are no huge gaps. Not ideal but should work.

 

 

[AnonymousGuy]

You're not filtering the exhaust fans right?  That alone can put a huge amount of resistance on them.

 

If you want a point of reference, my guest gaming PC has a 1080Ti and a 240mm radiator with 1600rpm fans (Silent Wings 3) can hold about 43-46C on the coolant temp with the GPU mining. (so basically no CPU load).

 

Ambient of 26C.