3080 performance for $200?!

[Zedbird]

Unless you want to pay scalper prices it is impossible to get a 3080 right now . I feel like I have found a $200 solution. I bought a Nvidia Shield Pro. With the shield I can stream games from my PC to my 4k 65" Oled tv using Nvidia’s AI upscaling. It looks amazing!  I set my resolution for my PC games to 1080p  and they are upscaled to 4k at 60hz. I have done a side by side comparison and I can't tell the difference. Because my resolution is lower I can max out my graphics settings. With DLSS games the performance is even better. I am playing Cyber Punk 2077 in 4k, with graphics set to high, Ray-Traced set to Ultra and DLSS set to performance and I'm getting 60+ fps. All on a 2070 super paired with a 3900x. I understand it's not true 4K, but neither is DLSS and people love it and it's necessary with most Ray-Traced titles. I'd love to hear other peoples point of view. I don't see any reason to buy a 3xxx series GPU now. Am I wrong? If you plan on using DLSS you plan on upscaling. If you can't tell the difference why pay the extra money?

[SlashedM]

9 minutes ago, Zedbird said:

I don't see any reason to buy a 3xxx series GPU now. Am I wrong? If you plan on using DLSS you plan on upscaling. If you can't tell the difference why pay the extra money?

Because you'd still need a decent GPU for it, most people who will be looking for a 3xxx series are people with less than a 2xxx honestly. Hell Im trying to upgrade from a laptop that is essentially a GT730/GTX460

 

And 2xxx series situation isnt any better.

 

 Also DLSS doesn't help for anything outside of gaming anyways, and DLSS was improved in the newer GPUs as well with improved RT. 

 

If you already have a 20xx, there wasn't a too much of reasons to upgrade unless you really that performace. If I had a 20xx, Id be envy of the 30xx, but I don't really "need" it.

 

Some people can tell the difference, and DLSS doesn't work in all games as well. 

[Vishera]

It's not a solution for people who need to buy a GPU.

You can't stream to a shield if you have a broken GPU or no GPU at all.

[jaslion]

The thing is you need a gpu that can do dlss and well it still needs to be powerfull enough. The ai upscaler of the shield is basically dlss but with a delay as it's running on slower hardware.

 

That and dlss is something that can only do so much it's still an upscaler so certain things just won't be so good. It also won't change the fact that things advance. So you will still need a better card only this time you can get by  with a lower end one for 98% of the way if you wanna do high rez gaming with an upscaler

[SlashedM]

Also correct me if Im wrong, but wouldnt dropping the res but use DLSS need more work from the CPU as well?

[porina]

Interesting solution. I guess it might stretch the life of someone who has a 1080p system and want to run 4k. It doesn't help if you're not already at some decency level.

 

I got a used 2080Ti which does afford me a level of 4k60 gaming. I really wanted a 3080 so I can go beyond 60fps, and this solution wouldn't help in that scenario.

 

What I think would be really interesting is if nvidia (or AMD for that matter) can implement a good generic upscaler. Something better than "dumb" solutions like running a Photoshop filter. Kinda holy grail, DLSS for any game, not just supported games.

 

BTW I also have an LG OLED, only 55" though. In recent testing of feeding it natively rendered 1080p, 1440p, 4k gameplay, the TV doing scaling wasn't much different between 1440p and 4k. It was softer than native 4k but in more photorealistic games that isn't really noticeable.

[porina]

5 minutes ago, SlashedM said:

Also correct me if Im wrong, but wouldnt dropping the res but use DLSS need more work from the CPU as well?

DLSS is done on the GPU, so I don't think the CPU needs to do any more work if you run at the same framerates. If framerate goes up, then CPU usage might too, but that's an indirect usage.

[Zedbird]

15 minutes ago, SlashedM said:

Also correct me if Im wrong, but wouldnt dropping the res but use DLSS need more work from the CPU as well?

Your CPU doesn't have lower performance at lower resolutions, your CPU can only process a maximum amount of frames per seconds and so can your GPU. The resolution doesn't really affect the CPU much and it increases GPU performance so that's why you're more likely to be CPU bottlenecked at low resolutions.

[SlashedM]

6 minutes ago, Zedbird said:

Your CPU doesn't have lower performance at lower resolutions, your CPU can only process a maximum amount of frames per seconds and so can your GPU. The resolution doesn't really affect the CPU much and it increases GPU performance so that's why you're more likely to be CPU bottlenecked at low resolutions.

Ah, thats what I meant, thank you

[Zedbird]

25 minutes ago, SlashedM said:

 

If you already have a 20xx, there wasn't a too much of reasons to upgrade unless you really that performace. If I had a 20xx, Id be envy of the 30xx, but I don't really "need" it.

 

It depends on you goals I guess. I currently have a 1440p 144hz monitor paired with a 2070 super. My target framerate is 60 fps with graphics set to the highest possible. If I were to buy a 3080 I would also buy a 4k monitor. Regardless of refresh rate my target

goal would still be 60 fps at the highest graphical settings. I achieved my goal while saving over $1000.

[Zedbird]

33 minutes ago, porina said:

 

What I think would be really interesting is if nvidia (or AMD for that matter) can implement a good generic upscaler. Something better than "dumb" solutions like running a Photoshop filter. Kinda holy grail, DLSS for any game, not just supported games.

 

To me that is what Nvidia Shield's AI upscaling does. I have upscaling baked in to many of my electronics and all of them are pretty noticeably bad. The Shields AI upscaling is definitely the best and I believe Linus did a video on it. It can also be used as a DLSS for any game as you put it. For example set your resolution to 720p and gain gaming performance on your PC while the Shield upscales it to 4k. Although I've noticed the sweet spot  to where I can't tell is 1080p. You can say the same about DLSS ultra performance as it just looks terrible.

[porina]

2 minutes ago, Zedbird said:

To me that is what Nvidia Shield's AI upscaling does. I have upscaling baked in to many of my electronics and all of them are pretty noticeably bad. The Shields AI upscaling is definitely the best and I believe Linus did a video on it. It can also be used as a DLSS for any game as you put it. For example set your resolution to 720p and gain gaming performance on your PC while the Shield upscales it to 4k. Although I've noticed the sweet spot  to where I can't tell is 1080p. You can say the same about DLSS ultra performance as it just looks terrible.

I remember Linus praising it some months ago too. Makes me wonder, if it is really that good, can't it be implemented in their desktop GPUs too? What makes the shield implementation so different to GPU implementation?

[Zedbird]

3 minutes ago, porina said:

I remember Linus praising it some months ago too. Makes me wonder, if it is really that good, can't it be implemented in their desktop GPUs too? What makes the shield implementation so different to GPU implementation?

I can tell you it is that good. I've been wondering that same question. The Shield is only using Tegra^® X1+ processor with a 256-core GPU and 3 GB RAM. Seems like this could either be a easy software update or a cheap add on card. 

[Zedbird]

3 hours ago, Vishera said:

It's not a solution for people who need to buy a GPU.

You can't stream to a shield if you have a broken GPU or no GPU at all.

Well actually you can. You can buy games on Steam, Epic, Ubisoft, ect... and then stream them on your Shield from a dedicated server. Only If your internet is fast enough that is. I only have a 100mb connection and that's enough. I'm not necessarily recommending this, but it's free (paid version gives you priority in the que) and you would still own the games. Games are piped in at 1080p and upscaled to 4k. 

[manikyath]

so.. your fix to the gpu shortage.. is to buy an expensive device to use features already present in the computer you own.. to play your games over the network?

 

everything you can do over the shield, you can do locally on the pc.

[Zedbird]

1 hour ago, manikyath said:

so.. your fix to the gpu shortage.. is to buy an expensive device to use features already present in the computer you own.. to play your games over the network?

 

everything you can do over the shield, you can do locally on the pc.

I can not play AAA games in 4k at 60 fps  with Ray Tracing on and the graphics maxed out without upgrading my GPU. With the Shield I can. I think I know the limits of my PC. A new 3080 is impossible to get unless you wan't to pay double the MSRP. Furthermore the Shield replaced my aging Fire stick and I'm also using it with Plex. All for $200. Not sure what ”features” you are talking about.

[manikyath]

8 hours ago, Zedbird said:

I can not play AAA games in 4k at 60 fps  with Ray Tracing on and the graphics maxed out without upgrading my GPU. With the Shield I can. I think I know the limits of my PC. A new 3080 is impossible to get unless you wan't to pay double the MSRP. Furthermore the Shield replaced my aging Fire stick and I'm also using it with Plex. All for $200. Not sure what ”features” you are talking about.

you *know* you can do the exact same thing the shield does with your games, locally on your pc, right?

 

you're not gaming in 4k, the game is running in 1080, and it's being uppscaled. it's a feature nvidia gpu's had for years now...

[jones177]

17 hours ago, Zedbird said:

Unless you want to pay scalper prices it is impossible to get a 3080 right now . I feel like I have found a $200 solution. I bought a Nvidia Shield Pro. With the shield I can stream games from my PC to my 4k 65" Oled tv using Nvidia’s AI upscaling. It looks amazing!  I set my resolution for my PC games to 1080p  and they are upscaled to 4k at 60hz. I have done a side by side comparison and I can't tell the difference. Because my resolution is lower I can max out my graphics settings. With DLSS games the performance is even better. I am playing Cyber Punk 2077 in 4k, with graphics set to high, Ray-Traced set to Ultra and DLSS set to performance and I'm getting 60+ fps. All on a 2070 super paired with a 3900x. I understand it's not true 4K, but neither is DLSS and people love it and it's necessary with most Ray-Traced titles. I'd love to hear other peoples point of view. I don't see any reason to buy a 3xxx series GPU now. Am I wrong? If you plan on using DLSS you plan on upscaling. If you can't tell the difference why pay the extra money?

OLEDs scale up really well. 

I had my LG 32" 1440p 144hz monitor beside my 55" B9 OLED and the OLED looked better at 1440p.

 

The only reason I want 30 series cards is for HDMI 2.1 since I use OLED TVs for PC gaming. I also have games like GTA 5 that I can already do over 120fps at 4k so it would be nice to have 4k 120hz. 

 

The urgency I felt with the 10 and the 20 series launches was not there for me with the 30s since my RTX 2080 ti and GTX 1080 tis are still doing fine. 

With the 2080 tis games that need frames I play at 1440p 120hz and eye candy games I play at 4k 60hz. Since one of my B9s replaced my 38" ultrawide I even emulate its resolution(3840 X 1600) to play some games.

 

Also with the 10 and 20 series launches I had performance issues in some games for about the first 6 months and only my 3DMark scores told me that my cards were ok so my plan was to buy in about March anyway.

 

As for DLSS 2.  In Control at 4k DLSS looks about the same as 1440p upscaled to 4k with slightly better frames.  In CP2077 4k DLSS performance looks exactly the same as 1440p with the quality setting and with both I average 60fps. So not a good 4k solution for me.

[Zedbird]

15 hours ago, manikyath said:

you *know* you can do the exact same thing the shield does with your games, locally on your pc, right?

 

you're not gaming in 4k, the game is running in 1080, and it's being uppscaled. it's a feature nvidia gpu's had for years now...

Are you talking about DSR? If you are it's garbage and kills your framerate.