DisplayPort 2.0 - delayed to late 2021

[Doobeedoo]

Surprised this hasn't been posted yet. Anyway...

 

Due to Corona-chan the delay is what it is, no surprise. The long process in general makes it difficult to communicate and do tests with other bodies, graphics cards, monitors, screen types, etc. for verification. There was nothing about DP 2.0 on CES due to all of this delay and prevented engineer meetups which allow multiple companies to work together to sort out any interoperability issues that their products possess. 

 

Compared to current connectors, to achieve higher resolutions and refresh rates, chroma sub-sampling and DCS are required, without, as we've seen, refresh rates needs to be lower significantly due to bandwidth.

 

So onto some basics on DP 2.0:

 

• Next gen DP 2.0 will be a massive improvement over any current connector with bandwidth of 80Gbps(77.4) total/data rate
• 8K @ 60Hz 4:4:4 including 30 bits per pixel (bpp) for HDR-10 support.
• Performance increase enabled by DP 2.0 are through both native DP and USB-C connector via DP Alt Mode, ability to have power and SS USB data at the same time as super-high-resolution video

 

List of some configuration examples quoted by VESA in the press release:

Quote

Single display resolutions

• One 16K (15360×8460) display @60Hz and 30 bpp 4:4:4 HDR (with DSC)
• One 10K (10240×4320) display @60Hz and 24 bpp 4:4:4 (no compression)

Dual display resolutions

• Two 8K (7680×4320) displays @120Hz and 30 bpp 4:4:4 HDR (with DSC)
• Two 4K (3840×2160) displays @144Hz and 24 bpp 4:4:4 (no compression)

Triple display resolutions

• Three 10K (10240×4320) displays @60Hz and 30 bpp 4:4:4 HDR (with DSC)
• Three 4K (3840×2160) displays @90Hz and 30 bpp 4:4:4 HDR (no compression)

When using only two lanes on the USB-C connector via DP Alt Mode to allow for simultaneous SuperSpeed USB data and video, DP 2.0 can enable such configurations as:

• Three 4K (3840×2160) displays @144Hz and 30 bpp 4:4:4 HDR (with DSC)
• Two 4Kx4K (4096×4096) displays (for AR/VR headsets) @120Hz and 30 bpp 4:4:4 HDR (with DSC)
• Three QHD (2560×1440) @120Hz and 24 bpp 4:4:4 (no compression)
• One 8K (7680×4320) display @30Hz and 30 bpp 4:4:4 HDR (no compression)

 

Support for future 1000Hz refresh rate:

• 1080p at 1000Hz (SDR only)
• 1080p at 1000Hz (HDR with Display Stream Compression used)
• 1440p at 1000Hz (SDR with DSC used)

So someone who very much appreciates high refresh rate and plays fps competitively, this is neat and goal to achieve blurless sample-and-hold with no flicker, no motion blur, and no stroboscopic effects. The LCD is simply slow, while we may see higher refresh rates ones, they're still slower than CRT or say OLED. The 'ms' ratings on todays LCD monitors are a joke, not even approximation number of sort. The CRT monitor still destroys LCD in motion clarity and persistence. Many high refresh rates are not even true to their advertised refresh rate per say, they can't really keep up with it, properly that is. 

I do wonder how long will LCD be pushed before we move to more proper display tech like MicroLED. Now that's another story.

 

In addition, DisplayPort 2.0 provides very high refresh rates with uncompressed HDR at full 4:4:4 precision.

• 8K 60 Hz HDR uncompressed
• 4K 144 Hz HDR uncompressed
• 1440p >240 Hz HDR uncompressed
• 1080p >512 Hz HDR uncompressed

I do wonder more about this, uncompressed for some it seems it could go higher maybe.

 

The bandwidth of uncompressed 8K 60Hz and 1080p 1000Hz is virtually identical:

• 8K 60 Hz = about 2 billion pixels per second
• 1080p 1000 Hz = about 2 billion pixels per second

 

Still more testing to be done on the standard and monitors supporting it are currently in development. It's expected late 2021 but I personally think 2022 would be more reasonable to expect more general availability if all goes well.

 

Due to many reasons, I have not gone 4K yet, have not gone HDR yet. Why? Price aside, also compromises along, for something I'd expect to keep for a decade. I don't want to go lower than 240Hz so other specs need to follow along and that is coming with DP 2.0 which is exciting. Also LCD to me is not a true HDR so yeah. Also compression to be no more is a good thing overall. So potential 4K 240Hz HDR uncompressed monitor? That'd be very nice!

This is all great and will bring some amazing monitors. The only obvious downside I can see so far is the LCD tech that monitors are stuck and MicroLED still seems to be in deep stages of development for consumers and monitors.

 

 

Soruces:

• DisplayPort 2.0 monitors have been delayed until late 2021 | OC3D News (overclock3d.net)
• DisplayPort 2.0 8K Monitors Facing Delays Due To COVID-19 | HotHardware
• DisplayPort 2.0 Implementations Delayed, Will Surface Late 2021 | TechPowerUp
• Where Are the DisplayPort 2.0 Monitors and Graphics Cards? | Tom's Hardware
• https://www.pcgamer.com/displayport-20-monitors-built-for-high-refresh-4k8k-delayed-until-later-this-year
• VESA Confirms DisplayPort 2.0 is Delayed Until Late 2021 | eTeknix
• DisplayPort 2.0 Announced with 3x Bandwidth Increase and Potential Support for 1000Hz Refresh Rates in the Future (tftcentral.co.uk)
• DisplayPort 2.0 Announced: Enough Bandwidth for 1000 Hz Future | Blur Busters
• https://blurbusters.com/blur-busters-law-amazing-journey-to-future-1000hz-displays-with-blurfree-sample-and-hold/

[WhitetailAni]

2 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Support for future 1000Hz refresh rate:

• 1080p at 1000Hz (SDR only)
• 1080p at 1000Hz (HDR with Display Stream Compression used)
• 1440p at 1000Hz (SDR with DSC used)

I wonder how long it will take for this to come?

Given that we're at 360Hz currently, I think it will take awhile to get to 1 kHz refresh rate.

[mr cheese]

18 minutes ago, ragnarok0273 said:

Given that we're at 360Hz currently, I think it will take awhile to get to 1 kHz refresh rate.

1k FPS CSGO with that 3090 getting cooked up at DP labs right now

[Exidor]

Do we even have a GPU that can output DP 2.0?

I thought the new AMD and NVIDIA both chose HDMI 2.1

[xg32]

35 minutes ago, Exidor said:

Do we even have a GPU that can output DP 2.0?

I thought the new AMD and NVIDIA both chose HDMI 2.1

not yet, been thoroughly disappointed with the delays in the port updates over the past 3 years~

[Glenwing]

I wasn't personally expecting to see it until 2022 personally, so it's bit funny to see it being "delayed" to an earlier release Anyway, I'm still not expecting to see it in 2021 anyway, and I also expect the first real products to implement only UHBR 10 speed for uncompressed 4K 144 Hz 10 bpc.

[Doobeedoo]

Yeah, quite excited to see new monitors with DP 2.0 support. I'd expect them all to be proper HDR spec quality, 10-bit, no DSC and sub sampling at all. Probably all will be LCDs and I take it with MiniLED using FALD though. I kinda really doubt we'll see OLED improved in a way that they'll overcome it's issues that are nature of the tech, probably just moving to MicroLED with time.

[Exidor]

31 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Yeah, quite excited to see new monitors with DP 2.0 support. I'd expect them all to be proper HDR spec quality, 10-bit, no DSC and sub sampling at all. Probably all will be LCDs and I take it with MiniLED using FALD though. I kinda really doubt we'll see OLED improved in a way that they'll overcome it's issues that are nature of the tech, probably just moving to MicroLED with time.

There are already OLED monitors.

And more have been announced. Considering how much LG is expanding their investment into production capabilities I think OLEDs will be with us for a decade at least. Mini leds cant even come close to OLED and I think micro leds are still at least 5 years away from any real consumer applications.

[Doobeedoo]

7 minutes ago, Exidor said:

There are already OLED monitors.

And more have been announced. Considering how much LG is expanding their investment into production capabilities I think OLEDs will be with us for a decade at least. Mini leds cant even come close to OLED and I think micro leds are still at least 5 years away from any real consumer applications.

There are few, but they're TV sized, huge. Bringing OLED into more regular sized monitors is something I don't see. They may lack some features too. Still all the issues exist for the tech like burn-in. Just one of the reasons aside price we don't see them in regular monitor sizes. But more larger format entertainment panels where it's more expected to have full screen content running and not much and long static UI. I've seen that LG's bendable ultra-wide OLED at CES but yeah, it's huge, it will cost thousands and it will still not cover all the high end specs and far from becoming mainstream. So LG is mainly expanding OLED yeah no doubt, for TVs it makes complete sense, reason they're doing so, almost all high end TVs are OLED where in monitors almost none. There are other that are reference monitors and for color work, they're not gaming monitors.

MiniLEDs are just unfortunate gap until MicroLED comes along though.

[Exidor]

5 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

There are few, but they're TV sized, huge. Bringing OLED into more regular sized monitors is something I don't see. They may lack some features too. Still all the issues exist for the tech like burn-in. Just one of the reasons aside price we don't see them in regular monitor sizes. But more larger format entertainment panels where it's more expected to have full screen content running and not much and long static UI. I've seen that LG's bendable ultra-wide OLED at CES but yeah, it's huge, it will cost thousands and it will still not cover all the high end specs and far from becoming mainstream. So LG is mainly expanding OLED yeah no doubt, for TVs it makes complete sense, reason they're doing so, almost all high end TVs are OLED where in monitors almost none. There are other that are reference monitors and for color work, they're not gaming monitors.

MiniLEDs are just unfortunate gap until MicroLED comes along though.

 

As I said they are already here.

https://www.oled-info.com/oled-devices/monitors

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1610344427

 

OLEDs are the only screens that can actually deliver on all the current tech.

Gaming monitors have been overpriced crap for a while.

 

Sure OLED suffer from burn in and have issues with VRR variable refresh rates.

But they will move more into the high end monitor market. Micro leds are just too far away from any consumer grade devices. There is a wide market gap and OLEDs will move into it. They are already an option on many high end laptops and we will see more and more implementations.

 

They will be a compromise like plasma but because mini leds under delivered on promised improvements and micro leds are still too far from any real implementation the coming 5 years OLEDs will dominate the high end market in both TVs and monitors. Then we will have some time when micro leds will start competing as after they prove viable production needs to ramp up first. So I am pretty sure that for the coming 5-10 years OLEDs will be a thing.

Next year we will probably see many OLED implementations.

 

[Doobeedoo]

3 minutes ago, Exidor said:

 

As I said they are already here.

https://www.oled-info.com/oled-devices/monitors

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1610344427

 

I know some exist, but all smaller ones are just 60Hz for pro color work and the big ones are just TV sized, they're huge, can't really sit in front of them on desk as usual. They still lack in certain specs. Also costing insanely expensive along. Last thing also is I wouldn't want such expensive monitor to get burn-ins within a year or so, nope.

[Exidor]

Read the article.....

They are establishing a specific production line for 30inch panels.

 

Also in what aspects are they lacking?

Burn in is better than on palsma and improving. Despite that Plasmas were a thing for a very long time and OLEDs are already hitting price points comparable and even below current offering "gaming" mini led panels. Plasma never managed to hit those price points.

Yes VRR is an issue but it is also an issue on other screens like IPS just to a lesser extend.

 

Finally all the mini led screens are same price or even more expensive than OLEDs.

The "gaming" monitor market will become more competitive the current offerings are way over priced.

Mini leds can not be the same price as OLEDs as they offer no real advantages compared to that tech and require active cooling for now and correspondingly high power draws.

 

I currently use a LG CX 48 as a monitor.

 

 

As I said we will see more monitors next year.

No company builds a whole new production line just to sit idle. If they were confident enough to build a whole production line that means that they are expecting orders. And I do not see enough demand for 30inch TVs to offset the costs of a whole separate production line.

 

Every tech starts at the high end.

So professional screens and editing screens that started coming out some 3 years ago tested the water.

 

 

You are trying to imply that we will skip OLEDs as a monitor technology.

There is absolutely no indication of that. Mini leds fail to deliver and have no real price advantage. Micro leds are still far of into the future. Even when micro leds hit acceptable price performance for consumer or even prosumer screens it will take time after that to establish production capacity.

 

What makes you think that OLEDs will be neglected as a display tech?

Why are then investments being made into new production facilities to produce smaller screen sizes at scale?

 

OLEDs and mini leds will exist in parallel as Samsung seems to be committed to mini leds and they are big enough to make it work. Even LG announced mini led TVs. But mini leds will be the cheaper alternative to OLEDs.

Both technologies will be superseded by micro leds within a decade.

 

 

This is just simple economics.

[Doobeedoo]

8 minutes ago, Exidor said:

Read the article.....

They are establishing a specific production line for 30inch panels.

 

Also in what aspects are they lacking?

Burn in is better than on palsma and improving. Despite that Plasmas were a thing for a very long time and OLEDs are already hitting price points comparable and even below current offering "gaming" mini led panels. Plasma never managed to hit those price points.

Yes VRR is an issue but it is also an issue on other screens like IPS just to a lesser extend.

 

Finally all the mini led screens are same price or even more expensive than OLEDs.

The "gaming" monitor market will become more competitive the current offerings are way over priced.

Mini leds can not be the same price as OLEDs as they offer no real advantages compared to that tech and require active cooling for now and correspondingly high power draws.

 

I currently use a LG CX 48 as a monitor.

 

 

As I said we will see more monitors next year.

No company builds a whole new production line just to sit idle. If they were confident enough to build a whole production line that means that they are expecting orders. And I do not see enough demand for 30inch TVs to offset the costs of a whole separate production line.

 

Every tech starts at the high end.

So professional screens and editing screens that started coming out some 3 years ago tested the water.

 

 

You are trying to imply that we will skip OLEDs as a monitor technology.

There is absolutely no indication of that. Mini leds fail to deliver and have no real price advantage. Micro leds are still far of into the future. Even when micro leds hit acceptable price performance for consumer or even prosumer screens it will take time after that to establish production capacity.

 

What makes you think that OLEDs will be neglected as a display tech?

Why are then investments being made into new production facilities to produce smaller screen sizes at scale?

 

OLEDs and mini leds will exist in parallel as Samsung seems to be committed to mini leds and they are big enough to make it work. Even LG announced mini led TVs. But mini leds will be the cheaper alternative to OLEDs.

Both technologies will be superseded by micro leds within a decade.

 

 

This is just simple economics.

I did, and as mentioned in the article:

Quote

It also plans to significantly expand its mid-range TV display lineup down to the 20-30-inch range, enhancing not only TV, but also gaming, mobility, and personal display options," announced LG Display.

We'll see, but all this still sounds vague, not only them but also other manufacturers from CES mentioned that OLED still poses issues for something like a PC monitor use case. And that's been a thing since ever. I don't see them overcoming it within a year or so. Just a nature of organic part of the tech. 

OLED can't go as bright for higher HDR spec, this also adds even further to the issues of burn in, the brighter the worse for burn in issue. There are no very high refresh rate, something they can change, but only time will tell. Having VRR is essential though, even TVs have it now. It will just be staple everywhere now.

 

Yes MiniLED monitors are very expensive that is true, while still being LCD display. That's what sucks, reason I don't invest in one. I don't like FALD among other things. Though those monitors do offer higher refresh rates, some even better color support, etc. Not all OLEDs are good. But MiniLED doesn't compete with OLED really anyway.

 

You're using that LG TV and it's 120Hz which is good, but it's still huge to sit in front of it like arms length and quite expensive also. It still has a low HDR peak brightness, it's not as high refresh rate which I prefer, which I get it's limited due to bandwidth too. OLED can easily go higher. I've heard that out of the box color accuracy isn't good, needs calibration. May sound as nitpicks but oh wow if I want to spend fortune for something to last a decade it better be everything I want.

 

Anyway, I am excited to see new monitors with DP 2.0 for sure. Then again, if we actually see OLED gaming monitors in sizes of if not 24" then from 27"-30-ish, I'll wait and see how they hold up. They'll be expensive, I don't want to be a tester and, burn myself. I've seen many latest OLED panels burn in within 1-3 years. 

I get that new tech starts at high end, but remember OLED has been a thing for quite some time, seeing even really solid and cheap offerings. Also OLED is almost everywhere, even cheaper phones, yet it's almost non existent in monitors space for obvious reasons. So if we're seeing OLED as a tech to trickle down to consumers and slowly to monitors, it's one of the slowest tech yet to do so. MicroLED will take time, but already a better tech in every way. There are LCDs that can be brighter than OLEDs so yeah.

 

I'm not necessarily implying that that OLED will be skipped for gaming monitors, but just thinking it may. Seeing how for so long it's still not a tech that's in monitors in general yet is everywhere for quite some time. Seeing how there's literally not a single high refresh rate monitor like 240Hz that's OLED for so long. Yet OLED is much better tech for it than LCD is. There were number of interviews with OLED manufacturers regarding this, they all point same things why. 

They're also investing in infrastructure to produce smaller display like laptops, if you see there are number of those that offer OLED panels.

 

Yeah for sure LG and Samsung will both offer TVs that are OLED and MiniLEDs, they need to have a tier of products and different manufacturing costs. 

And like you said, both techs will be superseded by MicroLEDs, no doubt. But who knows what we may see earlier from that tech, that's the question. Because today, investing in highest end MiniLED monitor just doesn't look like a best investment to me at all. I don't change monitors every few years. I'll wait and see what comes from these DP 2.0 monitors and get something that's very good and hopefully not too expensive, before MicroLED comes to light.

[Exidor]

Historically speaking LCD took a lot longer to become a thing.

First LCD computer monitor hit 1990 the first experimental screen were built in the 60s The TN matrix was patented in 1970. In small devices like calculators and watches they were everywhere already by the 1970s.

LCD monitors took around 10 years to even start pushing out CRT screens in the monitor space (1990-2000).

People tend to forget how long it takes for technology to hit consumers. And how long it takes to build out production plants and logistics. Those plants are a 10 year commitment.

 

 

HDR is still a gimmick mostly for PC games.

Most monitors do not hit even 600 that this generation LG TVs hit. 2021 LG screens and TVs already hit 1000. The Samsung galaxy note 10+ hit 1300..... And is probably easily among the best HDR screens out there.

VRR is also shit on most screens. OLED is just more visible because it has true black.

 

Honestly HDR and VRR will take several more years to become relevant.

Even games like Valhalla and CyberPunk have engines that do not render in HDR just upscale and look pretty bad doing so.

 

 

I think non of the current screens represent HDR or VRR in any really mainstream usable way. Same with high Hz even 120 is not a priority for AAA developers. 4K 120Hz even on a 3090 it is rarely achievable.

 

Outside of audio amplification and speakers any consumer tech ages badly especially in electronics computation and audio video.

Things just change too fast even a 3 year horizon is way too optimistic.

 

 

I have been using an OLED tv since the LG C7 came out.

Right now OLED is hands down the best picture quality for games and movies. Unless you buy a bloody wall sized Micro Led monstrosity.

Color accuracy out of the box is good better than most consumer monitors again both LCD and OLEDs have professional mastering and editing monitors that are calibrated accordingly. Yes no OLED panel has the power for now to be a HDR mastering panel.

OLEDs are bad for productivity that is why I keep a second screen around.

 

Right now "gaming" monitors are way too expensive and I think LG with their gaming focused TVs will push the prices down. And there are good reasons why they expanded OLED production capabilities.

 

To add to this dilemma AMD and Nvidia locked us into HDMI 2.1 for 2 years with their GPU designs. And HDMI 2.1 is a dumpsterfire.

 

 

Really buying a screen right now that is supposed to last for 5 years in the consumer space is not going to work out well. Professional applications are a different thing.

 

 

 

I am not disagreeing I am just adding some perspective on some things.

Mini Leds are mostly a gimmick that still adds too much cost for too little benefit.

Micro Leds are still way in the future. A decade is even optimistic in my opinion for any large scale deployment in the consumer space.

This is why LG is feeling confident to extend investment into OLED manufacturing they expect to get a decade out of this investment at the very least.

[Doobeedoo]

4 minutes ago, Exidor said:

Historically speaking LCD took a lot longer to become a thing.

First LCD computer monitor hit 1990 the first experimental screen were built in the 60s The TN matrix was patented in 1970. In small devices like calculators and watches they were everywhere already by the 1970s.

LCD monitors took around 10 years to even start pushing out CRT screens in the monitor space.

People tend to forget how long it takes for technology to hit consumers. And how long it takes to build out production plants and logistics. Those plants are a 10 year commitment.

 

 

HDR is still a gimmick mostly for PC games.

Most monitors do not hit even 600 that this generation LG TVs hit. 2021 LG screens and TVs already hit 1000. The Samsung galaxy note 10+ hit 1300..... And is probably easily among the best HDR screens out there.

VRR is also shit on most screens. OLED is just more visible because it has true black.

 

Honestly HDR and VRR will take several more years to become relevant.

Even games like Valhalla and CyberPunk have engines that do not render in HDR just upscale and look pretty bad doing so.

 

 

I think non of the current screens represent HDR or VRR in any really mainstream usable way. Same with high Hz even 120 is not a priority for AAA developers. 4K 120Hz even on a 3090 it is rarely achievable.

 

Outside of audio amplification and speakers any consumer tech ages badly especially in electronics computation and audio video.

Things just change too fast even a 3 year horizon is way too optimistic.

 

 

I have been using an OLED tv since the LG C7 came out.

Right now OLED is hands down the best picture quality for games and movies. Unless you buy a bloody wall sized Micro Led monstrosity.

Color accuracy out of the box is good better than most consumer monitors again both LCD and OLEDs have professional mastering and editing monitors that are calibrated accordingly. Yes no OLED panel has the power for now to be a HDR mastering panel.

OLEDs are bad for productivity that is why I keep a second screen around.

 

Right now "gaming" monitors are way too expensive and I think LG with their gaming focused TVs will push the prices down. And there are good reasons why they expanded OLED production capabilities.

 

To add to this dilemma AMD and Nvidia locked us into HDMI 2.1 for 2 years with their GPU designs. And HDMI 2.1 is a dumpsterfire.

 

 

Really buying a screen right now that is supposed to last for 5 years in the consumer space is not going to work out well. Professional applications are a different thing.

 

 

 

I am not disagreeing I am just adding some perspective on some things.

Mini Leds are mostly a gimmick that still adds too much cost for too little benefit.

Micro Leds are still way in the future. A decade is even optimistic in my opinion for any large scale deployment in the consumer space.

This is why LG is feeling confident to extend investment into OLED manufacturing they expect to get a decade out of this investment at the very least.

Heh, really I hated the LCD transition though, they're quite worse than CRTs especially motion clarity, one of reasons I want to get away from LCD already. Moving to LCDs we've lost quite a bit from CRTs that we still can't get back. It pains me we're still on LCDs though.

 

Yes, HDR still has way to improve on PC games side and monitors. I mean, I've seen and it does look nice, can't say it's a gimmick, but yeah need a better HDR spec displays and properly made HDR game in mind. I know there's that Asus monitor that's what 1400nits rated. As for a phone, it's much easier to do so on a much smaller device. The S21 Ultra is 1500nits peak rated. But, it's a freaking phone, so whatever. 

 

Not sure what you mean VRR being shit, like low end monitors range and such. The ones I've seen work properly and a wide range.

 

As for games, I mean we've had games rendering higher color than monitors can produce for a while, for good HDR implementation takes devs to do it really nice, but it's hard to showcase it, because there are many HDR-not monitors so. I'm still surprised how some games haven't received HDR mode though. Yes HDR is not as prominent yet, but we've had a decent number of games yet, I'd expect more and more do start adding it. 

 

We're seeing 120Hz literally everywhere so finally and hopefully devs focus more and fluidity and better optimizations. 

 

Yeah true, to get a great contrast and best current HDR OLED is very nice. I'm not doing super pro HDR mastering, but I do productivity work and also need good color.

All too many reasons I'm waiting to truly invest in some high end monitor, I want it to tick many new and high end specs to be a good point and most 'future proof' and best long term investment it can be.

 

Yes I was quite surprised by how much expensive MiniLED displays ended up. Yeah decade is reasonable to assume for large scale MicroLED in consumer space. The first wave will no doubt be insanely expensive, then after than I wonder how prices will settle. It will be a much better investment than todays expensive monitors.

Either LG made some eyebrow raising breakthrough in OLED tech to see them in monitors soon or it's just general corporate talk. We'll see, we're working on it, etc.

Like I said, I'll wait and see what comes with new DP 2.0 monitors, reason I held buying a new high end monitor for now.

[Exidor]

20 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Heh, really I hated the LCD transition though, they're quite worse than CRTs especially motion clarity, one of reasons I want to get away from LCD already. Moving to LCDs we've lost quite a bit from CRTs that we still can't get back. It pains me we're still on LCDs though.

 

Yes, HDR still has way to improve on PC games side and monitors. I mean, I've seen and it does look nice, can't say it's a gimmick, but yeah need a better HDR spec displays and properly made HDR game in mind. I know there's that Asus monitor that's what 1400nits rated. As for a phone, it's much easier to do so on a much smaller device. The S21 Ultra is 1500nits peak rated. But, it's a freaking phone, so whatever. 

 

Not sure what you mean VRR being shit, like low end monitors range and such. The ones I've seen work properly and a wide range.

 

As for games, I mean we've had games rendering higher color than monitors can produce for a while, for good HDR implementation takes devs to do it really nice, but it's hard to showcase it, because there are many HDR-not monitors so. I'm still surprised how some games haven't received HDR mode though. Yes HDR is not as prominent yet, but we've had a decent number of games yet, I'd expect more and more do start adding it. 

 

We're seeing 120Hz literally everywhere so finally and hopefully devs focus more and fluidity and better optimizations. 

 

Yeah true, to get a great contrast and best current HDR OLED is very nice. I'm not doing super pro HDR mastering, but I do productivity work and also need good color.

All too many reasons I'm waiting to truly invest in some high end monitor, I want it to tick many new and high end specs to be a good point and most 'future proof' and best long term investment it can be.

 

Yes I was quite surprised by how much expensive MiniLED displays ended up. Yeah decade is reasonable to assume for large scale MicroLED in consumer space. The first wave will no doubt be insanely expensive, then after than I wonder how prices will settle. It will be a much better investment than todays expensive monitors.

Either LG made some eyebrow raising breakthrough in OLED tech to see them in monitors soon or it's just general corporate talk. We'll see, we're working on it, etc.

Like I said, I'll wait and see what comes with new DP 2.0 monitors, reason I held buying a new high end monitor for now.

 

Honestly considering what a dumpsterfire HDMI 2.1 is I am not holding my breath for any future proofind.

 

What I mean about VRR being shit is the whole Nvidia module vs no module and the whole gamma flickering issue on all screens IPS, VA, whatever that is a lot more prominent on OLEDs as they actually go completely black. And this issue gets worse with unstable frame rates. Things are not really much better with mini leds as all the algorithms they use to run the backlight correctly gets really blurry at high refresh rates and even worse with VRR. VRR is still not a well functioning standard. Many articles on that.

VRR and HDR need in engine integration in games..... Same as devs need to shift to 120Hz as the norm and not hunt for 8k that is the new buzzword and in all honesty is kind of silly for desk use.....

 

Right now the whole HDMI 2.1 and even worse the whole high definition sound is only HDMI is a nightmare. I think whatever you buy now will be obsolete just because how all this idiotic HDMI handshakes work. We created so many proprietary standards especially in audio and video is going the same way HDR vs Dolby Vision VRR Nvidia vs AMD.

I just figure fuck it I get something nice and give up on any future proofing further out than 2 generations of GPU.

For professional work yea might be different.

 

But right now handshakes and standards are breaking all the time making hardware basically an accessory to sell software and soon to be a subscription FFS..... Owning anything is more and more illusive. It is EAs wet dream to force us to stream everything. And TVs are already building in support for streaming apps. So soon your smart TV will just tell you sorry 2 or 3 years are passed no more updates for your streaming client go buy a new TV.

 

 

Yea I also held on to my CRT for a very long time. I had a huge like 30kg Panasonic monstrosity that was tiny by today's standards like 20 inches? (Joke was that thing was called a "flatscreen" LMAO) And it outperformed all LCD screens. I avoided TN completely was forced to use one at work but I personally switched to LCD only in the IPS era. 

[Doobeedoo]

33 minutes ago, Exidor said:

 

Honestly considering what a dumpsterfire HDMI 2.1 is I am not holding my breath for any future proofind.

 

What I mean about VRR being shit is the whole Nvidia module vs no module and the whole gamma flickering issue on all screens IPS, VA, whatever that is a lot more prominent on OLEDs as they actually go completely black. And this issue gets worse with unstable frame rates. Things are not really much better with mini leds as all the algorithms they use to run the backlight correctly gets really blurry at high refresh rates and even worse with VRR. VRR is still not a well functioning standard. Many articles on that.

VRR and HDR need in engine integration in games..... Same as devs need to shift to 120Hz as the norm and not hunt for 8k that is the new buzzword and in all honesty is kind of silly for desk use.....

 

Right now the whole HDMI 2.1 and even worse the whole high definition sound is only HDMI is a nightmare. I think whatever you buy now will be obsolete just because how all this idiotic HDMI handshakes work. We created so many proprietary standards especially in audio and video is going the same way HDR vs Dolby Vision VRR Nvidia vs AMD.

I just figure fuck it I get something nice and give up on any future proofing further out than 2 generations of GPU.

For professional work yea might be different.

 

But right now handshakes and standards are breaking all the time making hardware basically an accessory to sell software and soon to be a subscription FFS..... Owning anything is more and more illusive. It is EAs wet dream to force us to stream everything. And TVs are already building in support for streaming apps. So soon your smart TV will just tell you sorry 2 or 3 years are passed no more updates for your streaming client go buy a new TV.

 

 

Yea I also held on to my CRT for a very long time. I had a huge like 30kg Panasonic monstrosity that was tiny by today's standards like 20 inches? (Joke was that thing was called a "flatscreen" LMAO) And it outperformed all LCD screens. I avoided TN completely was forced to use one at work but I personally switched to LCD only in the IPS era. 

Personally, I'm using DP so can't really say about HDMI issues though.

I've seen some reports how some displays may show flicker or brightness changes. Then again, I've seen monitors that work properly without any issues. Haven't tested OLED and how VRR acts, but very odd. Then again I'm also using a Radeon card so yeah. I know Asus has their ELMB displays, which are VRR+strobing, I'm curious more about it and future improvements. I've heard good and bad about it. Some issues with crosstalk and so. But also if no big fluctuations are happening that it works great.

Speaking of game engines, number of game engines support it, yet some games don't offer it so there's that. The VRR I mean, thing is, it should work, or it doesn't, period. Be it either issues with a monitor, cable or simply implementation between the two. I've seen number of them that work flawlessly.

 

Too bad with gaming, multiplatform and then devs tend to mostly focus on console 'standard', but 120Hz is here so good for that.

8K on like a 40" or so monitor would be amazing PPI I have to say. Windows scaling issues aside, for general real estate and simply greater detail would be awesome.

Gaming wise yeah 8K how they market is a joke.

 

Yeah I get that HDMI standards mess part. Then again it's mostly found in TVs where DP for monitors. Hopefully things get sorted out. Better for all. Luckily for me I'm only into monitors hehe.

 

Yeah, shame kinda, I'd get a 'modern' CRT if it existed honestly. I also mainly switched to LCD with IPS though TN for initial 240Hz and now we see IPS mainly in general, even though TNs are still a bit faster, but I guess they can't sell them anymore for high price haha. And VAs wasn't a fan in general.

I just want to see LCD die already.

[Exidor]

56 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Personally, I'm using DP so can't really say about HDMI issues though.

I've seen some reports how some displays may show flicker or brightness changes. Then again, I've seen monitors that work properly without any issues. Haven't tested OLED and how VRR acts, but very odd. Then again I'm also using a Radeon card so yeah. I know Asus has their ELMB displays, which are VRR+strobing, I'm curious more about it and future improvements. I've heard good and bad about it. Some issues with crosstalk and so. But also if no big fluctuations are happening that it works great.

Speaking of game engines, number of game engines support it, yet some games don't offer it so there's that. The VRR I mean, thing is, it should work, or it doesn't, period. Be it either issues with a monitor, cable or simply implementation between the two. I've seen number of them that work flawlessly.

 

Too bad with gaming, multiplatform and then devs tend to mostly focus on console 'standard', but 120Hz is here so good for that.

8K on like a 40" or so monitor would be amazing PPI I have to say. Windows scaling issues aside, for general real estate and simply greater detail would be awesome.

Gaming wise yeah 8K how they market is a joke.

 

Yeah I get that HDMI standards mess part. Then again it's mostly found in TVs where DP for monitors. Hopefully things get sorted out. Better for all. Luckily for me I'm only into monitors hehe.

 

Yeah, shame kinda, I'd get a 'modern' CRT if it existed honestly. I also mainly switched to LCD with IPS though TN for initial 240Hz and now we see IPS mainly in general, even though TNs are still a bit faster, but I guess they can't sell them anymore for high price haha. And VAs wasn't a fan in general.

I just want to see LCD die already.

 

Well since you can not get high end audio without HDMI....

I am stuck with HDMI because I am not going to use headphones or go stereo.

 

 

VRR is still a mess.

And anything that can go black as in no light emitted from a pixel suffers greatly OLEDs were just the first technology that hit it commercially.

All the mini led screens add a layer of processing that is needed to anticipated and guide the backlite arrays. They do not play nice with high Hz or VRR. I am really curious to see how they are going to solve this. Every current implementation has issues.

 

There are way too many formats that do not play nice and get abandoned half way through.

So to me DP 2.0 is meh it at best will solve half of the problem. Let me know when somebody fixes HD audio....... Until then HMDI and the dumpsterfire that is HDMI 2.1 will be here to stay.

 

 

8k I dont know I feel you will have to use scaling for any productivity work at a desk.

I have a 27inch 4k panel in portrait mode next to a 48inch LG OLED 4k and honestly imagining doubling that I am pretty sure I wont be able to read jack shit without some serious scaling.

The PPI is good enough for most of the stuff I do.

For movie production and print editing I can see the argument for more PPI. But for every day use. I mean considering the file sizes of 8K I still feel we are some years away before 8k content becomes really usable. Considering 1080p still dominates streaming.

Maybe in 5 years we will start really seeing it and even then at desk distances of 1m or so from your face any moving content I dont know if you will really see the difference.

[Doobeedoo]

18 minutes ago, Exidor said:

 

Well since you can not get high end audio without HDMI....

I am stuck with HDMI because I am not going to use headphones or go stereo.

 

 

VRR is still a mess.

And anything that can go black as in no light limited from a pixel suffers greatly OLEDs were just the first technology that hit it commercially.

All the mini led screens add a layer of processing that is needed to anticipated and guide the packlite arrays. They do not play nice with high Hz or VRR. I am really curious to see how they are going to solve this. Every current implementation has issues.

 

There are way too many formats that do not play nice and get abandoned half way through.

So to me DP 2.0 is meh it at best will solve half of the problem. Let me know when somebody fixes HD audio....... Until then HMDI and the dumpsterfire that is HDMI 2.1 will be here to stay.

Yeah, the audio part sucks. 

As far as 120Hz OLED and and VRR all this is still rather new. All TVs with VRR have shown gamma shift. The LG OLEDs are the only TVs with a contrast ratio high enough to make it more noticeable. As it stands, VRR is tied to gamma shift with any 4k120hz TV until there are some drastic changes. So I guess on monitors if some had issues, they were not as prevalent since they're not as bright in general. From what I've heard from others that own these TVs too is also it doesn't seem that firmware may fix all the issues.

I guess only time will tell. Since VRR was first on monitors and then came on TVs issues are kinda expected I guess. Maybe with firmware they can introduce various gamma curves and try to fix, but yeah not sure.

 

Haha, as far as audio like for TVs and living room, don't know when that will get good. Though PC space wise, where it's headphones, it all comes down to monitor quality. But DP 2.0 is finally a big improvement in overall image quality and future displays, without any sort of cuts. Lives up more to it's name heh.