AMD and Deep Learning

[cihs]

Hello,

 

I have a question about AMD and Deep Learning.

AMD's new cards has below average performance compared to NVIDIA's if game has DLSS enabled during Ray Tracing.

I red AMD is also developing DLSS like for its cards.

 

I was wondering if that can be implanted to the cards with just a patch or does it require to be manufactured into the card?

I am trying to undertand if it is worth to get a RX6800XT instead of RTX 3070 for Ray Tracing games as an investment.

 

If it can be patched, is it possible RX5xxx series might get that feature too?

 

Thanks

[Levent]

To be completely honest, I wouldnt get my hopes up on anything AMD does drivers wise. They constantly make claims on how they are going to add a feature, add this or add that but those features never come up good enough for main stream usage. I personally wouldnt get current AMD generation cards if I was looking at DLSS and RT. 

[cihs]

1 hour ago, Levent said:

To be completely honest, I wouldnt get my hopes up on anything AMD does drivers wise. They constantly make claims on how they are going to add a feature, add this or add that but those features never come up good enough for main stream usage. I personally wouldnt get current AMD generation cards if I was looking at DLSS and RT. 

So Big Navi is not so big after all

[Zberg]

Unsure if AMD will be able to get those features on the current released cards (I would bet it would be on the next batch, but just guessing), but if you want DLSS and RT, I would certainly just go team green on this one.  That is definitely the "safer" bet, for those features

[cihs]

1 minute ago, Zberg said:

Unsure if AMD will be able to get those features on the current released cards (I would bet it would be on the next batch, but just guessing), but if you want DLSS and RT, I would certainly just go team green on this one.  That is definitely the "safer" bet, for those features

You are right

Since AMD generally offers more FPS per buck I was hoping for it to be able to offer good ray tracing at least in the future.

 

[Zberg]

3 minutes ago, cihs said:

You are right

Since AMD generally offers more FPS per buck I was hoping for it to be able to offer good ray tracing at least in the future.

 

Definitely good cards to get especially if you dont care about the aforementioned feature set

 

Nvidia has been smart about staying ahead in terms of "additional perks".  The superior Nvenc video encoder for streaming, RTX voice is kinda cool, DLSS 2.0 is now awesome, and ray tracing is neat.  Add all of those together, and many feel that it justifies the 50$ premium (which honestly isnt that much).

 

AMD still does get the nod for price/performance in straight FPS/dollar calculation, as it has in the past (was hard to beat the value of a 5700xt in frame/dollar).  Though at 4k the value calculation is about dead even.

[igormp]

On 12/11/2020 at 7:14 AM, cihs said:

Hello,

 

I have a question about AMD and Deep Learning.

AMD's new cards has below average performance compared to NVIDIA's if game has DLSS enabled during Ray Tracing.

I red AMD is also developing DLSS like for its cards.

 

I was wondering if that can be implanted to the cards with just a patch or does it require to be manufactured into the card?

I am trying to undertand if it is worth to get a RX6800XT instead of RTX 3070 for Ray Tracing games as an investment.

 

If it can be patched, is it possible RX5xxx series might get that feature too?

 

Thanks

AMD is actually waiting for MS to release something akin to DLSS, but generic. They already have DirectML which is a CUDA-like API, but generic for any GPU, a DLSS equivalent would be made on top of it.

 

Generic stream processors (which are found in any GPU) are often more than enough to perform deep learning tasks.

However, current nvidia cards (Volta, Turing and now Ampere) have tensor cores, which are specialized units made for low precision matrices FMA, something that's really used when doing ML tasks and provides an amazing speedup compared to using raw shading units. Only the CDNA cards from AMD have similar units, current RDNA ones don't.

 

As for ray tracing, that has nothing to do with machine learning, requires dedicated hardware to be useable, and both current AMD and Nvidia cards have it (although AMD's implementation is not as good as nvidia's).

[cihs]

12 hours ago, igormp said:

AMD is actually waiting for MS to release something akin to DLSS, but generic. They already have DirectML which is a CUDA-like API, but generic for any GPU, a DLSS equivalent would be made on top of it.

 

Generic stream processors (which are found in any GPU) are often more than enough to perform deep learning tasks.

However, current nvidia cards (Volta, Turing and now Ampere) have tensor cores, which are specialized units made for low precision matrices FMA, something that's really used when doing ML tasks and provides an amazing speedup compared to using raw shading units. Only the CDNA cards from AMD have similar units, current RDNA ones don't.

 

As for ray tracing, that has nothing to do with machine learning, requires dedicated hardware to be useable, and both current AMD and Nvidia cards have it (although AMD's implementation is not as good as nvidia's).

Thank you for your reply.

As I red/watched with current cards it is hard to play many games 4K while ray tracing is activated except DLSS is activated too.

So I was wondering if AMD can implement it to its cards.

 

What I understand fom your reply is even MS releases it since cards are not built with specific cores current AMD cards might not have deep learning capabilities or high FPS as NVIDIA has.

 

Do I understand correcty?

[Action_Johnson]

I really wouldn’t be buying a card based on DLSS or Ray tracing, yet.

 

DLSS generally looks worse than native res, sometimes not, and RT is so computationally expensive that you can’t run it without DLSS. 
 

I dunno, I’ve just never seen a night and day difference with RT that makes me want to say “yes, that is totally worth a 50% cut in my framerates!”

 

or

 

”yes, that’s totally worth the artifacting and poor distance rendering! DLSS ON!” 
 

Lastly, Nvidia constantly demonstrating how shitty of a company they are swayed my decision to get a Radeon card for the first time since they were still called ATi. That 5770 was a beast for the time

[igormp]

5 hours ago, cihs said:

What I understand fom your reply is even MS releases it since cards are not built with specific cores current AMD cards might not have deep learning capabilities or high FPS as NVIDIA has.

 

Do I understand correcty?

It will be able to run that kind of stuff, but the performance will be way worse than the current nvidia implementation.