PCIe 4x Sound card not working in PCIe 16x slot

[Stahlmann]

I've had to switch my PCIe sound card to another slot due to some space restrictions. Afaik there should not be any problem with a 4x device running in a 16x slot. However, windows doesn't recognize it anymore and i can't install the drivers because the installer doesn't recognize it either. But as you can see in the picture below the BIOS does recognize a PCIe 3.0 4x device, which can only be the sound card. The only other PCIe device i'm using is my GPU (the 4.0 16x device). Before this i was running the sound card in a 4x slot without problems. Am i missing something here or do i need to change anything in BIOS to make windows use the sound card again? If it's relevant, my specs are in my signature.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

(Sorry for the blurry image...)

[AbydosOne]

@StahlmannWhat the model of motherboard?

 

Do you have an NVMe SSD that could be taking the lanes?

[Stahlmann]

1 minute ago, AbydosOne said:

@StahlmannWhat the model of motherboard?

 

Do you have an NVMe SSD that could be taking the lanes?

Like i said, full specs in my signature. I use a Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro with 2 NVMe SSDs installed.

 

And it worked before with all the same specs.

 

It's only giving me trouble since i moved the sound card from a 4x slot to a 16x slot. The rest is all the same...

[AbydosOne]

3 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

Like i said, full specs in my signature

derp, it's below the fold for me...

 

As for the lanes issue, see below:

 

 

 

You'll need to pull one of the NVMe drives to get it to work.

[Stahlmann]

4 minutes ago, AbydosOne said:

derp, it's below the fold for me...

 

As for the lanes issue, see below:

 

 

 

You'll need to pull one of the NVMe drives to get it to work.

I've had it working with all 2 SSD's, the GPU AND the Sound card before. You're talking about a 4x slot being disabled. But i have it in a 16x slot now. I am NOT using any PCIe 4x slot right now.

 

It WAS actually working when i was using the 4x slot...

[mariushm]

Yeah ... 2nd m.2 connector will disable the bottom pci-e slot.

 

One option would be to buy a pci-e adapter card to put your 2nd m.2 in the middle slot, which runs at pci-e x2 speed.

An example of such adapter board : https://www.amazon.com/YATENG-Controller-Expansion-Card-Support-Converter/dp/B07JJTVGZM/

 

It's only half the speed, but almost 2 GB is still better than nothing.

 

edit / ps  ... middle pci-e x16 if use, will disable sata ports  3,4,5 ... so again if you have sata something in those connectors, middle pci-e x16 slot may not work.

[Stahlmann]

@AbydosOne @mariushm

 

Is there a way to disable one of my SSDs to see if it's working after without removing it? It's pretty much buried under other stuff...

[Stahlmann]

1 minute ago, mariushm said:

Yeah ... 2nd m.2 connector will disable the bottom pci-e slot.

 

One option would be to buy a pci-e adapter card to put your 2nd m.2 in the middle slot, which runs at pci-e x2 speed.

An example of such adapter board : https://www.amazon.com/YATENG-Controller-Expansion-Card-Support-Converter/dp/B07JJTVGZM/

 

It's only half the speed, but almost 2 GB is still better than nothing.

I still don't get why it was working before with all devices installed but the sound card in a 4x slot.

[Stahlmann]

@AbydosOne @mariushm

 

Nevermind... I think i understood the diagram now. Looks like the "16x" slot i installed the sound card in is actually a 4x slot. And it was working before because i had the sound card installed in a 2x slot.

 

That basically means my sound card does no longer fit into my build...

 

OR is there a way to make the 4x slot run as a 2x?

 

Or i'd need to get X570 and switch out my mobo. As i am running custom water cooling this is not really the best option. I'll probably look into other audio solutions.

 

Thanks again for your help and getting me to understand mobos a bit more!

[mariushm]

The sound card will run in any slot,  as long as the slot is big enough to fit.

 

It will run at pci-e x1, at x2, at x4, or whatever.

 

The problem is the motherboard will disable pci-e slot OR disable sata ports or do things depending on what you install in your computer.

If you insert m.2 nvme SSD in bottom slot, then the bottom pci-e x16 (electrically x4) gets disabled.

If you connect a sata device to sata ports 3, 4 or 5 then middle pci-e x16 (electrically x2) gets disabled

 

So since you have m.2 nvme ssd in bottom slot, your bottom pci-e x16 slot won't work.

 

What you can do is to free the bottom m.2 connector, which will enable the bottom pci-e x16 slot. One way to do it would be using that adapter card I showed you. Similar models are on eBay for around $10 - it's cheaper than a new motherboard.

 

Another option would be to simply buy a riser cable (pci-e x1 to pci-e x4 or even pci-e x1 to pci-e x1 as long as the slot is open at the end) and you can then connect the sound card in a pci-e x1 slot.

 

Example of such riser cable : https://www.amazon.com/Mustpoint-Express-Extension-Gold-Plated-Connector/dp/B07PMPDGGX/

or this: https://www.amazon.com/Mustpoint-Extension-Vertical-Direction-Magnetic/dp/B07ZHVVP9X/

or this: https://www.amazon.com/Timack-Extender-Extension-Gold-Plated-Connector/dp/B07PMQZ1HP/

 

The wall of the pci-e slot is intentionally open, so you can plug cards bigger than pci-e x1 and they'll work at pci-e x1 speeds, because pci-e is designed like that, to be "modular", it's perfectly safe for a part of the card's edge connector to be just sitting outside the slot.

 

A sound card doesn't even need one pci-e lane, it barely needs something like 50 MB/s when one pci-e lane gives it 970 MB/s , so it would run perfectly fine at pci-e x1.

 

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

 

OR is there a way to make the 4x slot run as a 2x?

 

 

What you want to do is run your GPU in the first 16x slot and nothing in the second 16x slot if you want to keep all 16 lanes to the GPU, otherwise they both downgrade to 8x, and that is how it works on EVERY computer going back to 2013.

 

If you're okay with using the lanes in the second x16 slot, then any device (1x to 8x) will work in that second slot.

 

The third slot in most/all motherboards are 4 lanes max, and sometimes only PCIe 2.0, regardless, you have to check the motherboard to see if these lanes are claimed by M2 or SATA drives. If the slot isn't working, then it's likely claimed by another device. You should use the the motherboard's software to determine what is actually claimed.

 

So if you have something in M2B_SB, then you can't use PCIEX4 at all.

 

[mariushm]

6 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

What you want to do is run your GPU in the first 16x slot and nothing in the second 16x slot if you want to keep all 16 lanes to the GPU, otherwise they both downgrade to 8x, and that is how it works on EVERY computer going back to 2013.

This is not correct.

A lot of recent motherboards no longer split the 16 lanes into 2 pci-e x8 slots because SLI is no longer that popular and requires a license (which would add to the cost of the board), and because with pci-e 4.0 there is a length restriction, so if the length of traces all the way to bottom slot is above some threshold the board needs redriver/amplifier chips which again, cost $$

 

Quote

If you're okay with using the lanes in the second x16 slot, then any device (1x to 8x) will work in that second slot.

Again, not correct.  In this particular motherboard he has, the 2nd pci-e x16 slot is pci-e 3.0 x2

 

Quote

1‎ x PCI Express x16 slot (PCIEX16), integrated in the CPU:

1. 3rd Generation AMD Ryzen™ processors support PCIe 4.0 x16 mode
2. New Generation AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Graphics processors support PCIe 3.0 x16 mode
   * For optimum performance, if only one PCI Express graphics card is to be installed, be sure to install it in the PCIEX16 slot.

1 x PCI Express x16 slot (PCIEX4), integrated in the Chipset:

1. Supporting PCIe 3.0 x4 mode
   * The M2B_SB connector shares bandwidth with the PCIEX4 slot. The PCIEX4 slot will become unavailable when an SSD is installed in the M2B_SB connectors.

1 x PCI Express x16 slot (PCIEX2), integrated in the Chipset:

1. Supporting PCIe 3.0 x2 mode
   * The PCIEX2 slot shares bandwidth with the SATA3 4, 5 connectors. The PCIEX2 slot will become unavailable when a device is installed in the SATA3 4 or SATA3 5 connector.

2 x PCI Express x1 slots

Quote

The third slot in most/all motherboards are 4 lanes max, and sometimes only PCIe 2.0, regardless, you have to check the motherboard to see if these lanes are claimed by M2 or SATA drives. If the slot isn't working, then it's likely claimed by another device. You should use the the motherboard's software to determine what is actually claimed.

 

So if you have something in M2B_SB, then you can't use PCIEX4 at all.

 

well, again, you'd be incorrect.

On this particular motherboard, the bottom pci-e slot is only x2.  Also, the recent chipset B550 is all pci-e 3.0, the previous generation B450, X470 etc were creating pci-e 2.0 lanes, the latest chipsets create pci-e 3.0 lanes in the case of A520, B550 chipsets and pci-e 4.0 lanes in case of x570.

 

If the slot is sharing lanes with a M.2 connector, some motherboards will allow you to choose between  m.2 x4 / slot disabled, or m.2 x4 / slot downgrade to x1 ,  or m.2 x2 / slot downgrade to x2  but not all are so flexible, so you have to read the manual or technical specs before buying if you have some particular needs.

 

 

 

 

@Stahlmann  I was also wrong a bit, I assumed the pci-e x2 is the middle slot, but it's actually the bottom slot. Also, it doesn't disable sata ports 3, 4,5  it disables the sata 3 ports number 4 and 5 ... so just two ports, the text on the gigabyte website was stupid written and it didn't click in my head that it's weird to have 3 ports disabled. So if you have anything in the bottom 2 sata ports , that bottom pci-e slot gets disabled in your case

 

You have the layout on page 4 in the manual : https://download.gigabyte.com/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_b550-aorus-pro-ac_1001_e.pdf

 

You can see how it says PCIEX4 and PCIEX2 above the slots.

Also on next page, page 5, shows diagram where it shows slot OR sata ports,  slot OR nvme m.2 

And this is repeated again on page 6 in the specification

 

[Stahlmann]

1 hour ago, mariushm said:

-SNIP-

Thanks for all that information.

The riser cable seems like an option to use the PCIEX1_2 slot again, which i used before and worked. But i'll have to see if it's even possible to fit a riser somewhere in between the bottom radiator/fans and the board. Also, the I/O bracket of the sound card won't fit anywhere anyway. And having it laying around loose is a very bad time, as there are fans directly under it.

 

Still the best option will probably be an external DAC/AMP combo. It wouldn't be that expensive as i can still sell the sound card for a decent amount.

 

I'll have to think about my options some more.

[Kisai]

6 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

 

Still the best option will probably be an external DAC/AMP combo. It wouldn't be that expensive as i can still sell the sound card for a decent amount.

 

You shouldn't need the additional sound card unless there's electrical-mechanical problems using the onboard one. Like in my system, I use the X-fi because the onboard sound chip generates a lot more noise. Like if nothing is playing you hear an audible hiss. the X-fi connected to the Front-panel however is dead silent. But in planning for a new build I'd like to omit it if the onboard sound is equal or better.

 

USB DAC's don't actually offer anything except removing the pc-generated electrical noise. In many cases they're not even designed for desktops, they're designed for mobile phones/laptops that have removed the 3.5mm jack, and require being powered by the computer/phone or by a separate power brick. They range from a simple USB-C to 3.5mm adapter all the way up to 20lb boxes that you'd normally have in your living room. The trouble is that many desktop and laptop systems only permit one USB audio endpoint to function, and the OS will consume excessive amounts of CPU power and RAM when the device is plugged in.

 

As for your existing build, if you actually need the sound card, what is preventing it from being used in PCIEX1_2? Just the number of lanes it's using? Because you'd be SOL either way with this MB trying to get it to use all 4 lanes as you have the option of using the PCIEX4, or M2B_SB, not both. 

[Stahlmann]

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

As for your existing build, if you actually need the sound card, what is preventing it from being used in PCIEX1_2? Just the number of lanes it's using? Because you'd be SOL either way with this MB trying to get it to use all 4 lanes as you have the option of using the PCIEX4, or M2B_SB, not both. 

Altough the card would work in other slots, none of the other slots are accessible anymore due to recent changes i made to my system. Yes i admit, it was bad planning.

 

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

You shouldn't need the additional sound card unless there's electrical-mechanical problems using the onboard one. Like in my system, I use the X-fi because the onboard sound chip generates a lot more noise. Like if nothing is playing you hear an audible hiss. the X-fi connected to the Front-panel however is dead silent. But in planning for a new build I'd like to omit it if the onboard sound is equal or better.

 

USB DAC's don't actually offer anything except removing the pc-generated electrical noise. In many cases they're not even designed for desktops, they're designed for mobile phones/laptops that have removed the 3.5mm jack, and require being powered by the computer/phone or by a separate power brick. They range from a simple USB-C to 3.5mm adapter all the way up to 20lb boxes that you'd normally have in your living room. The trouble is that many desktop and laptop systems only permit one USB audio endpoint to function, and the OS will consume excessive amounts of CPU power and RAM when the device is plugged in.

I actually need a decent DAC/AMP because i have to power my DT 990 Edition 600Ohm headphones. Without a dedicated amp they sound very dull and cannot get loud enough to make a good listening experience imo. I currently use my onboard sound and it is not even comparable to the experience i got with my high-end-ish sound card.

 

I just ordered a FIIO K5 Pro to replace my sound card.

[botato]

On 11/25/2020 at 10:00 PM, mariushm said:

Yeah ... 2nd m.2 connector will disable the bottom pci-e slot.

 

One option would be to buy a pci-e adapter card to put your 2nd m.2 in the middle slot, which runs at pci-e x2 speed.

An example of such adapter board : https://www.amazon.com/YATENG-Controller-Expansion-Card-Support-Converter/dp/B07JJTVGZM/

 

It's only half the speed, but almost 2 GB is still better than nothing.

 

edit / ps  ... middle pci-e x16 if use, will disable sata ports  3,4,5 ... so again if you have sata something in those connectors, middle pci-e x16 slot may not work.

 

Thanks mariushm. Pretty old post but I'm replying because I did not know this and missed the mention in the manual. I almost threw out my Creative Soundblaster Z because I couldn't get this soundcard to work in the bottom PCI-e slot of my Gigabyte Aorus Pro V2. Turns out I only had to put the SATA cable of my 2.5" SSD in a different slot. I hope this reply helps others to find this solution in the future. Here are some tags for the hungry search engines:

 

Creative Soundblaster Z not working

Creative Soundblaster Z not recognized

card not recognized in bottom pci-e slot

Gigabyte Aorus Pro V2 bottom pci-e slot not working