RAM Frequency vs Latency

[BlackManINC]

 So this dude in the video below recommends to anyone with a high refresh rate monitor to buy ram with the highest clock speed possible for maximum performance, especially max 1% lows. I have a 144hz monitor and will be buying the RX 6800XT soon. Whats the best ram I can get for a Gigabyte X570 Auros Master?

 

 

 

[Vishera]

Latency is as important as frequency,I recommend CL16 and lower.

3600MHz CL16  is what i typically recommend.

[Jurrunio]

14 minutes ago, BlackManINC said:

buy ram with the highest clock speed possible for maximum performance

That's not what his results show (not bothered to watch the whole thing). Instead, low latency matters more, even though ideally you should get both. 3600 16-19-19 is probably the best for your wallet, but something like 3600 16-16-16 or 4000C17 is even faster.

[mariushm]

The video card is less relevant, the CPU is.

 

If you're gonna buy a Ryzen 5xxx processor, it may actually do better with lower timings and with 4 sticks installed. Steve from GamersNexus got much better results with 3200 Mhz CL14 instead of 3600 Mhz CL 16, and got up to 5-10% higher  fps (especially the minimums) using 4 sticks of ram instead of 2 (though he noted that the Level1Tech dude said there may be even higher performance by going with 2 x 16 GB Single Sided sticks but he didn't have sticks of that variety to test it)

 

 

With previous Ryzen processors, 3600 Mhz or a bit better may make more sense.

 

 

[BlackManINC]

18 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

That's not what his results show (not bothered to watch the whole things). Instead, low latency matters more, even though ideally you should get both. 3600 16-19-19 is probably the best for your wallet, but something like 3600 16-16-16 or 4000C17 is even faster.

 Well, yeah, he did say I should buy ram with a clock speed of up to 4000 mhz, give or take, C17 I guess. I'm having a hard time finding ram with CAS 17 in stock though, at a reasonable price. The shit is expensive. 

 

18 hours ago, mariushm said:

The video card is less relevant, the CPU is.

 

If you're gonna buy a Ryzen 5xxx processor, it may actually do better with lower timings and with 4 sticks installed. Steve from GamersNexus got much better results with 3200 Mhz CL14 instead of 3600 Mhz CL 16, and got up to 5-10% higher  fps (especially the minimums) using 4 sticks of ram instead of 2 (though he noted that the Level1Tech dude said there may be even higher performance by going with 2 x 16 GB Single Sided sticks but he didn't have sticks of that variety to test it)

 

 

With previous Ryzen processors, 3600 Mhz or a bit better may make more sense.

 

 

A bit better being no more than 3800 mhz right? He did say you shouldn't go any higher than that with a Zen 2 CPU like mine since the infinity fabric clock decouples a bit above that anyway. 

 

This is the list that I'm going by for ram by the way. 

 

Link: X570 Auros Master QVL list

[mariushm]

I don't know about Zen 3 yet (ryzen 5xxx processors)

 

With Ryzen based on zen2 and zen2+ (3xxx) if you want 1:1:1, most processors will go up to around 3766 mhz. If you are lucky with a cpu you may get 3866-4000 mhz.

In the video above, I think Steve mentioned he could get the 5xxx processors more easily close to 4000 Mhz but as you can see he tested with pairs of 2 and pairs of 4 sticks, and got more performance with 3200 Mhz and CL14 latency.

If you are stuck with using just two memory sticks, then in games that need high bandwidth memory, you may get a few extra fps with higher frequency ram ... but I would say it's probably not worth the extra cost.

 

Personally, I would stick to standard 3600 Mhz Cl16 and maybe manually configure them to 3200 CL14 or CL15 and run some benchmarks to see if the lower latency would give better results.

 

Zen3 chips are different than previous Ryzen processors, the cores are arranged differently and they all use that 32 MB of L3 cache a bit differently, so unlike previous ryzen processors, a bit lower latency may benefit games this time.

 

[Guest]

Maybe one could go to this thread and look at the last 2 pages?

 

I think the screen shots Jumper118 posted would speak pretty clearly about performance with memory speed and latency. The screen shots say a thousand words. Clearly these are benchmarking figures a daily drive wouldn't use, but shows how well tight cas and high frequency do in a render. 

 

 

[mariushm]

4 minutes ago, BlackManINC said:

This is the list that I'm going by for ram by the way. 

 

Link: X570 Auros Master QVL list

I almost never read those lists, and don't base my purchases on those lists.

 

A QVL list is just "we had these memory sticks in our lab/factory and we tested them and we know the motherboard works with them"

With higher end models, they may update the list from time to time, but most of the time after a few months, it's no longer updated.

In this case, the PDF above was created on December 8th 2019, so almost 11 months ago.

Since then, there were ... around 10-11 bios updates, which improve compatibility with memory, update cpu microcode, make things better ... but you don't see the QVL list updated, you don't see new models (brands, series) of memory sticks added to that list, the list is stuck in 2019. 

 

So ignore that QVL list... buy a popular brand, a popular series, that advertises good timings and frequencies, and if you have problems with it, simply return it to the store and buy something else.

 

[Jurrunio]

33 minutes ago, BlackManINC said:

The shit is expensive. 

You dont get more for each dollar after 3600 16-19-19, that's why I name this out as the line between "all-in" and "good enough"

[BlackManINC]

22 minutes ago, mariushm said:

I almost never read those lists, and don't base my purchases on those lists.

 

A QVL list is just "we had these memory sticks in our lab/factory and we tested them and we know the motherboard works with them"

With higher end models, they may update the list from time to time, but most of the time after a few months, it's no longer updated.

In this case, the PDF above was created on December 8th 2019, so almost 11 months ago.

Since then, there were ... around 10-11 bios updates, which improve compatibility with memory, update cpu microcode, make things better ... but you don't see the QVL list updated, you don't see new models (brands, series) of memory sticks added to that list, the list is stuck in 2019. 

 

So ignore that QVL list... buy a popular brand, a popular series, that advertises good timings and frequencies, and if you have problems with it, simply return it to the store and buy something else.

 

 Got it, so what specific ram set do you recommend at 32 gbs? 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

You dont get more for each dollar after 3600 16-19-19, that's why I name this out as the line between "all-in" and "good enough"

So with my R7 3700X, I should just get a 3600mhz ram and call it a day? 

[Jurrunio]

3 minutes ago, BlackManINC said:

So with my R7 3700X, I should just get a 3600mhz ram and call it a day? 

yep

[BlackManINC]

2 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

yep

 So what about this list linked below? Is it reliable?

 

Link: The best RAM for gaming in 2020

 

 

[GDRRiley]

5 minutes ago, BlackManINC said:

 So what about this list linked below? Is it reliable?

 

Link: The best RAM for gaming in 2020

 

 

its a horrible list

[BlackManINC]

Just now, GDRRiley said:

its a horrible list

How so? I mean, what do you recommend? 

[mariushm]

it's horrible because it's expensive sticks, with rgb, and they recommend them because they have affiliate links for them making them money if you go to stores by clicking on the links on the pages.

 

Go to pcpartpicker, filter list to show only 3200 mhz or higher, sort by best price per GB or by number of reviews/ratings, then sort by latency and price and pick whatever you fancy more.

 

[BlackManINC]

7 minutes ago, mariushm said:

it's horrible because it's expensive sticks, with rgb, and they recommend them because they have affiliate links for them making them money if you go to stores by clicking on the links on the pages.

 

Go to pcpartpicker, filter list to show only 3200 mhz or higher, sort by best price per GB or by number of reviews/ratings, then sort by latency and price and pick whatever you fancy more.

 

I mean, I narrowed the list down, but I'm still not sure which is the absolute best. The price for me isn't much of an issue as long as it doesn't cost $200 or more. Should I go with the first one on the list, the 'G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB'? 

 

Link: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#U=4&S=3600,4000&Z=32768002&L=140,160

 

 

 

[GDRRiley]

1 minute ago, BlackManINC said:

How so? I mean, what do you recommend? 

The cheapest kit that meets the specs

[BlackManINC]

Just now, GDRRiley said:

The cheapest kit that meets the specs

Well, what about this one?

 

Link: G.Skill Trident Z Neo Series 32GB

[pipnina]

When you see the timings printed on the ram card, and it says like 15-17-17-35, is that C15?

My current 2x16GB cards and 2x8GB have those timings, but are only rated for 3GHz. I have tried to push them a little bit further for 3.2 or even 3.4 but by 3.5 it refused to boot, and it seems like with the XMP profile enabled it is already at 1.35v which i believe is the maximum safe voltage. I don't think it makes much odds for my 6700K, but if i get Ryzen 5000 it seems like it will make a decent difference.

[Jurrunio]

25 minutes ago, BlackManINC said:

 So what about this list linked below? Is it reliable?

 

Link: The best RAM for gaming in 2020

 

 

I saw the last two, ROFL

 

9 minutes ago, BlackManINC said:

Well, what about this one?

 

Link: G.Skill Trident Z Neo Series 32GB

If you stick to one retailer, you pay more (in this case, way more)

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/w3FKHx/gskill-trident-z-neo-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr4-3600-memory-f4-3600c16d-32gtznc

this is why we like PCPP.

 

If you cut the bling, there's this

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/zcH8TW/gskill-ripjaws-v-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr4-3600-memory-f4-3600c16d-32gvkc

for about 2/3 the cost

[GDRRiley]

11 minutes ago, BlackManINC said:

Well, what about this one?

 

Link: G.Skill Trident Z Neo Series 32GB

way too much

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#Z=32768002&S=3200,5100&L=30,160&sort=price&page=1

[LogicalDrm]

-> Moved to CPUs, Motherboards and Memory