Major Network Upgrade

[dentside302]

LTT Forum Members I need your help, 

 

My parents own an operate a greenhouse in the Midwest. We currently have three computers and 2 printers in an office, all run off an Netgear N600 router and one 5 port switch. We have had plans to expand this into the greenhouses themselves for a long time to monitor the environmental computer system without walking up to the office or opening the weatherproof enclosures. We have a new production and shipping warehouse under construction right now and I thought this would be the perfect time to do the network upgrade. We had a conduit directional bored from the office building to the new warehouse next to the main electric service. Yes, I know, I know, major interference source. However, the conduit is about 280 feet in length and I need to run an additional 30 feet to get to the router and 50-75 feet to get into the new warehouse. So, the old copper isn't going to cut it. Fiber is going to be the way to go. My question is I need recommendations for a wired router that has sfp expansion to run the fiber line. I would also like to know if you have any better product recommendations for the current plan below. 

 

Current Plan:

Old Equipment:

Use Netgear N600 router as an access point for the office

 

New Equipment for fiber run:

-Ubiquiti Networks EdgeRouter Pro ???

-Preterminated 62.5/125 fiber web (pretty much know what I need here)

-Engenius EWS5912FP 8 port switch with two sfp uplink ports (also has wireless management)

-EnGenius EWS310AP Managed Indoor N600 accesspoint (for breakroom in warehouse)

-2x EnGenius EWS610AP Managed Outdoor N600 accesspoint (one for the rest of warehouse and another for the greenhouse) possibly another for the greenhouse

-Recommendation for LC duplex SFP trancievers

 

Warehouse is an 80x100 Steel Building and Main Greenhouse is 144 ft. longx 300 feet wide (can't remember the dimensions of the second greenhouse)

 

Here is a Google Maps link for the property in question.

 

-The green roofed building is the office

-The old grey building was torn down and is now where the warehouse is located.

 

Any more Questions just let me know. Thanks.

 

[Ssoele]

The Ubiquity EdgeRouter Pro's are not yet released to the public.

[dentside302]

The Ubiquity EdgeRouter Pro's are not yet released to the public.

Here it is on Amazon.

[Ssoele]

Here it is on Amazon.

 

In Europe, you can only pre-order them. From what I've read, the release date should be worldwide the same.

[dentside302]

In Europe, you can only pre-order them, from what I've read, the release date should be worldwide the same.

Don't know then, it seems like I can order it. But anyway, any other things other than unavailable parts.

[wpirobotbuilder]

LTT Forum Members I need your help, 

 

My parents own an operate a greenhouse in the Midwest. We currently have three computers and 2 printers in an office, all run off an Netgear N600 router and one 5 port switch. We have had plans to expand this into the greenhouses themselves for a long time to monitor the environmental computer system without walking up to the office or opening the weatherproof enclosures. We have a new production and shipping warehouse under construction right now and I thought this would be the perfect time to do the network upgrade. We had a conduit directional bored from the office building to the new warehouse next to the main electric service. Yes, I know, I know, major interference source. However, the conduit is about 280 feet in length and I need to run an additional 30 feet to get to the router and 50-75 feet to get into the new warehouse. So, the old copper isn't going to cut it. Fiber is going to be the way to go.

Why not get an ethernet repeater/extender? That way you don't have to invest in expensive fibre equipment and cables (which can be also be fragile).

[dentside302]

Why not get an ethernet repeater/extender? That way you don't have to invest in expensive fibre equipment and cables (which can be also be fragile).

The main run which is in underground conduit is right at 290-310 feet, which is very close to the limits of copper. And after the conduit, it goes into the greenhouse which is a hot, humid environment. The termination there would also possibly have direct hose watering at some times. Also, the data conduit is run within inches of the main 400a service line to the greenhouses. This will create a lot of interference and I'm not sure that with that interference and the cable being at the upper limit of range, that that would be the best idea.

[JohnnyP]

Keep what you have. Run fiber and put media converters on both ends.

[dentside302]

Keep what you have. Run fiber and put media converters on both ends.

We are using all the available ports on the router now and since this is a business I'd like to upgrade the whole network. I haven't been able to find many gigabit media converters. The ones I have found cost 300-500 dollars USD and the engenius switch has sfp ports. I didn't choose that switch just for the sfp, but also for the wireless management. The Ubiquiti Edgerouter Pro is 400 dollars, so that will actually be less expensive than media converters according to my research. 

[JohnnyP]

Ok. That makes better sense. at a quick re glance of your first post are you going to have to convert it to ether net at the greenhouse? I didn't see something in there for that.

[dentside302]

Ok. That makes better sense. at a quick re glance of your first post are you going to have to convert it to ether net at the greenhouse? I didn't see something in there for that.

The engenius switch has sfp ports as well as the ubiquiti router so I should be able to run between those and use the ethernet ports from the engenius switch.

[JohnnyP]

Ok.

[dentside302]

Ok.

The main thing I'm not sure about is the sfp trancievers. They will be 1000BASE-SX trancievers with a Duplex LC connector as I will be running 62.5/125 MM fiber. Any recommendations.

[wpirobotbuilder]

The main run which is in underground conduit is right at 290-310 feet, which is very close to the limits of copper. And after the conduit, it goes into the greenhouse which is a hot, humid environment. The termination there would also possibly have direct hose watering at some times. Also, the data conduit is run within inches of the main 400a service line to the greenhouses. This will create a lot of interference and I'm not sure that with that interference and the cable being at the upper limit of range, that that would be the best idea.

How close is it to the service line? That seems like a code violation. The NEC specifies a minimum of 2 inches for house wiring, not a power main. (Page 681, article 800.133 - other applications).

 

If you're looking to redo it, is it possible for you to lay down new data conduits? If not, fiber is the way to go.

[dentside302]

How close is it to the service line? That seems like a code violation. The NEC specifies a minimum of 2 inches for house wiring, not a power main. (Page 681, article 800.133 - other applications).

 

If you're looking to redo it, is it possible for you to lay down new data conduits? If not, fiber is the way to go.

The conduit is spaced probably 6 inches apart, can't remember exactly. And a re-do isn't really possible. The cost and disruption would be too great. We would have to get through the foundation wall of the new building and go under the floor. At this point, it is too far along to redo. Didn't know about the code requirement. I'm just an observer, 16 years old, and have plenty to learn, but I think I'm well ahead of most kids my age. With all these factors stacked against copper, I'm still looking at fiber. My parents said that the reliable connection at a higher cost would be preferable to "experimentation." In other words, we want to do it right the first time.

[The Syndicate]

I have grown interest in this keyboard now.

[dentside302]

I've been doing some more research on my own and if I'm getting the Ubiquiti router, it would make sense to go with their access points to. That would give me control to setup the office and back greenhouse the same, instead of having the two separate environments. So, here is a revised list:

 

LTT Forum Members I need your help, 

 

My parents own an operate a greenhouse in the Midwest. We currently have three computers and 2 printers in an office, all run off an Netgear N600 router and one 5 port switch. We have had plans to expand this into the greenhouses themselves for a long time to monitor the environmental computer system without walking up to the office or opening the weatherproof enclosures. We have a new production and shipping warehouse under construction right now and I thought this would be the perfect time to do the network upgrade. We had a conduit directional bored from the office building to the new warehouse next to the main electric service. Yes, I know, I know, major interference source. However, the conduit is about 280 feet in length and I need to run an additional 30 feet to get to the router and 50-75 feet to get into the new warehouse. So, the old copper isn't going to cut it. Fiber is going to be the way to go. My question is I need recommendations for a wired router that has sfp expansion to run the fiber line. I would also like to know if you have any better product recommendations for the current plan below. 

 

Current Plan:

Old Equipment:

Use Netgear N600 router as an access point for the office

Scrap old Netgear router or use it at home to boost wifi signal, etc.

 

New Equipment for fiber run:

-Ubiquiti Networks EdgeRouter Pro ???

-Preterminated 62.5/125 fiber web (pretty much know what I need here)

-Engenius EWS5912FP 8 port switch with two sfp uplink ports (also has wireless management) 

-Netgear GS510TP ProSafe 8-Port Gigabit PoE Smart Switch with 2 Gigabit SFP Ports

-EnGenius EWS310AP Managed Indoor N600 accesspoint (for breakroom in warehouse)  Probably not needed as warehouse isn't that big.

-2x EnGenius EWS610AP Managed Outdoor N600 accesspoint (one for the rest of warehouse and another for the greenhouse) possibly another for the greenhouse 

-2x Ubiquiti Unifi AP Outdoor AC (same cost as the engenius dual band almost)

-Ubiquiti Unifi AP AC (for the office)

-Recommendation for LC duplex SFP trancievers (Cisco GLC-SX MM???)

 

Thoughts and recommendations are appreciated.

[wpirobotbuilder]

The conduit is spaced probably 6 inches apart, can't remember exactly. And a re-do isn't really possible. The cost and disruption would be too great. We would have to get through the foundation wall of the new building and go under the floor. At this point, it is too far along to redo. Didn't know about the code requirement. I'm just an observer, 16 years old, and have plenty to learn, but I think I'm well ahead of most kids my age. With all these factors stacked against copper, I'm still looking at fiber. My parents said that the reliable connection at a higher cost would be preferable to "experimentation." In other words, we want to do it right the first time.

Before doing anything, I would find an electrical engineer/electrician for a consultation. If your work doesn't meet the National Electric Code, you might have to pay a fine and re-do all your cabling.

[dentside302]

Before doing anything, I would find an electrical engineer/electrician for a consultation. If your work doesn't meet the National Electric Code, you might have to pay a fine and re-do all your cabling.

Yeah, the electricians are still working on the inside, I'll ask them and see if they can give me any information.

[dentside302]

Yeah, the electricians are still working on the inside, I'll ask them and see if they can give me any information.

We are ok as far as code requirements. The electricians are ok with it being that close and I think that applies to house wiring for fire purposes and not for underground cables at all. We won't be installing anything for at least another few weeks, so I have time to decide. The only thing that might be installed is a termination box in the breakroom so that drywall can go up. If you look back at my revised parts list, I think those are better choices, what do you think???

[dentside302]

Could anyone tell me if the plan I laid out in Post #17 is good or if you would change anything. Any input would be appreciated. Incompatible parts, better parts, etc.

[lions240]

You can save a ton of money if you use copper. What I would do is run 100m of copper and use a small hub and use it as a coupler and a signal repeater. This will save you a ton of money on fiber and on equipment. Just use the hub as a repeater and not as a small switch this will introduce possible collisions.

[dentside302]

You can save a ton of money if you use copper. What I would do is run 100m of copper and use a small hub and use it as a coupler and a signal repeater. This will save you a ton of money on fiber and on equipment. Just use the hub as a repeater and not as a small switch this will introduce possible collisions.

The copper would be run about 6 inches away from a heavily used 400A electrical service line. I'm worried that this will cause a lot of interference or reduce the distance I can run. Is that true or is it ok. And I don't see how running copper will reduce the cost that much. 

[lions240]

The copper would be run about 6 inches away from a heavily used 400A electrical service line. I'm worried that this will cause a lot of interference or reduce the distance I can run. Is that true or is it ok. And I don't see how running copper will reduce the cost that much. 

 

You want to be using STP copper cable it will protect the cable from electrical interference.

[JohnnyP]

But putting in a hub as an extender is asking for problems as that is just another failure point. If they are Ok doing fiber then do fiber. What type of conduit is in the ground?