wireless vs wired mice

[KieranTHeBesT]

i have been wondering if i should get a really light wired mouse or semi light wireless mouse price cap of 80$ any ideas?

[Sorenson]

I’ve used Corsair and Logitech wireless mouses for the past 3 years with no issues. As long as they have the high speed wireless connection and a good sensor there isn’t a noticeable diff IMO.

[SavageNeo]

I prefer wired because lower latency. yes there are some good mice with just a tad higher latency than wired but still i prefer wired.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, KieranTHeBesT said:

i have been wondering if i should get a really light wired mouse or semi light wireless mouse price cap of 80$ any ideas?

What it comes down to is how annoying do you find the wire and what other annoyances are worth having instead.  Wired mice have advantages.  They’re lighter, faster, never run out of battery, more reliable, cheaper, And are generally a lot easier to find.  TheY have one sometimes big disadvantage though: the wire.

 

wireless mice can reduce or near eliminate a lot of these.

1 weight.  Reduced annoyance.

They’ve gotten a lot lighter.  Still heavier, but they’ve gotten lighter. 

2 speed.  Reduced annoyance.  Effectively eliminated with enough money.

they used to be a lot slower.  Now the expensive ones are barely slower
 

3. Battery life. reduced annoyance.
 An annoying problem.  Got less bad with rechargeable batteries.  Some have Qi wireless chargers so if you have a special mat with a window charger in a corner you can park it on it and recharge the battery.

 

4. More reliable.  No improvement.

rechargable batteries die, wireless signals get inturrupted, bits break.  This hasn’t really gotten better.  You can still find a shit wired mouse with reliability issues in software though

 

5. Cheaper. Reduced annoyance

the problem here is not that wireless mice got cheaper so much as that wired mice got more expensive.

 

6. A lot easier to find.  No improvement

a wired mouse is attached to your computer so it can’t fall allen that far from your desk and you can always follow the cable.  This imho is one of the biggest advantages of wired mice.

 

The wire.  How annoying is it for you? That’s a personal one.  
 

What I buy: $5 wired mice.  As good as a $50 wireless mouse and I like the $45 left over.

 

[Oswin]

 

38 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

rechargable batteries die, wireless signals get inturrupted, bits break.  This hasn’t really gotten better.

depends on which wireless mouse you are referring to, not all wireless mice has this problem 

proven here

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

https://prosettings.net/best-cs-go-mouse/

 

Logitech #2nd most used mouse among CS Pros on LAN events

38 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

$5 wired mice.  As good as a $50 wireless mouse and I like the $45 left over.

highly depends on your use case.

[PCGuy_5960]

Logitech and razer wireless are so nice if you can afford them. Literally same performance as wired, very long lasting battery life and no annoying wire when you are gaming. The G305 is great and quite affordable too.

3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

They’ve gotten a lot lighter.  Still heavier, but they’ve gotten lighter

The G Pro Wireless at 80g (77 without the cover) and the Razer Viper Ultimate at 74g are still lighter than most gaming mice and pretty damn close to most ultralights.

3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

they used to be a lot slower.  Now the expensive ones are barely slower

Not barely, as fast, if not a bit faster.

3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

wireless signals get inturrupted, bits break.  This hasn’t really gotten better.

It absolutely has, literally half of CS pros use the G Pro Wireless in LAN tournaments with a ton of wireless interference and I have yet to hear of anyone having issues with it. Same with the Viper Ultimate, although this isn't as widely adopted as the G Pro.

Quote

 $5 wired mice.  As good as a $50 wireless mouse and I like the $45 left over.

As long as you don't plan on doing any gaming, sure.

[Oswin]

10 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

The lighter mice normally have pitiful battery and require things like expensive Qi mouse mats.

define pitiful battery life? pretty sure the GPW has the same battery as my G502 which is a full 42 grams heavier.

also the G305 is fairly light and still boast a 200hr battery life

 

10 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

They’re can be as fast if you don’t run into interference etc and faster is just ridiculous.

as previously mentioned here:

3 hours ago, Oswin said:

https://prosettings.net/best-cs-go-mouse/

 

Logitech #2nd most used mouse among CS Pros on LAN events

Spoiler

 

10 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

I switched back to wired after have horrendous issues with a Corsair Dark Core. 

again, depends on which wireless mouse you are referring to, not all wireless mice has these issues.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Oswin

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, Lord Vile said:

The lighter mice normally have pitiful battery and require things like expensive Qi mouse mats.

My G Pro Wireless literally lasts like a week of use while using it for 10+ hours a day and charges in an hour. I'd say that pretty good IMO.

2 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

They’re can be as fast if you don’t run into interference etc and faster is just ridiculous.

You can find tests online that prove that they are at least as fast as wired (I think Linus has one as well). I think Logitech, with internal tests, have shown that their wireless implementation is even slightly faster than wired. As for interference, I would say that LANs have quite a lot and I have never heard of any pro having problems with their wireless mice at LANs.

6 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

For a start they have to go through more circuitry to be broadcast and to be received wirelessly on top of all the usual stuff the wireless mouse has to go through.

With good optimization and engineering, it's not impossible.

5 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

I switched back to wired after have horrendous issues with a Corsair Dark Core. 

Yes, which is why I specifically mentioned Logitech and Razer. These 2 are the only ones who have gotten it right so far.

[PCGuy_5960]

3 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Is that with or without lights? 

With lights

4 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

It is physically impossible for them to be faster, anything Logitech have put out would be lab made crap that in no way represents the real world. Also I remember seeing the Linus thing and poking holes in it. 

As you can see, as fast if not slightly faster. 

5 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Depends on the location, a LAN, unless it’s massive, shouldn’t have more noise than a small household.

Would dreamhacks and arenas with thousands of spectators count?

[PCGuy_5960]

8 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Depends I can see dreamhacks organising WiFi communications to minimise interference plus there aren’t multiple boxes with different wavelengths from a myriad of devices pinging everywhere, all the computers should be wired and all the spectators would either be on cellular or a few WiFi boxes that are all operating together as a mesh. 

For what it's worth the only time I have ever heard of anyone having any issues with Logitech wireless is when they have their router on their desk right next to the mouse or if they have their receiver completely hidden or too far away from their mouse. As long as you have your receiver close to your mouse and don't have your router, or other devices that can introduce a lot of interference on your desk, you shouldn't have any interference issues. You're free to disagree because of your experience with Corsair wireless, but I'm just saying that Logitech doesn't have the same issues that Corsair does and this can be backed up by a quick google search. 

[Oswin]

56 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Depends on the location, a LAN, unless it’s massive, shouldn’t have more noise than a small household. I had no issue with a wireless mouse until I moved into a flat where there’s wireless signals bouncing all over the place and about 30

different internet hubs. 

how much interference do you have?

sent this video 3 times, have you watched it?

*mind you this video was made 4 years ago.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Oswin

[gloop]

5 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

rechargable batteries die, wireless signals get inturrupted, bits break

Then why do literally every OW Professional player use a G Pro Wireless?

[PCGuy_5960]

25 minutes ago, gloop said:

Then why do literally every OW Professional player use a G Pro Wireless?

Only OW? CS:GO (when they aren't using Zowie) and Fortnite (when they aren't using a finalmouse) too

[Oswin]

13 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Only OW? CS:GO (when they aren't using Zowie) and Fortnite (when they aren't using a finalmouse) too

not to mention the majority of R6 and Apex Legends players and the list goes on and on

[PCGuy_5960]

2 minutes ago, Oswin said:

not to mention the majority of R6 and Apex Legends players and the list goes on and on

shit, i forgot r6s existed. Valorant too, not to mention the huge number of non pros, but very high level players that use it. 

[VSTOLL]

4 hours ago, Oswin said:

define pitiful battery life? pretty sure the GPW has the same battery as my G502 which is a full 42 grams heavier.

also the G305 is fairly light and still boast a 200hr battery life

 

Just want to mention that I've put a AA Energizer Lithium Battery on my G305 on August of last year and the Logitech software still says it's full battery. Okay I always leave it at Endurance Mode but I use it 8h+ a day and it's been a year already.

[Oswin]

1 minute ago, VSTOLL said:

on my G503

you do mean the G305?

[VSTOLL]

Just now, Oswin said:

you do mean the G305?

Hahaha yeah, sorry about that. Fixed. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Bombastinator]

7 hours ago, Oswin said:

 

depends on which wireless mouse you are referring to, not all wireless mice has this problem 

proven here

  Hide contents

 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://prosettings.net/best-cs-go-mouse/

 

Logitech #2nd most used mouse among CS Pros on LAN events

highly depends on your use case.

Re: #4

so signal interruption is becoming reduced/ eliminated in some more expensive models. Is such a mouse in the users budget?
 

re: $5 mice (rather than #5)

True.  I put that in there to point to my difference in use case. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Bombastinator

[Doobeedoo]

Personally I don't mind wire, with good quality cable, bungee, I don't think about it. But wireless mice from Logitech and Razer are top notch, better than some wired, anyone following mice tech or play competitive know this. 

[Bombastinator]

9 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Logitech and razer wireless are so nice if you can afford them. Literally same performance as wired, very long lasting battery life and no annoying wire when you are gaming. The G305 is great and quite affordable too.

The G Pro Wireless at 80g (77 without the cover) and the Razer Viper Ultimate at 74g are still lighter than most gaming mice and pretty damn close to most ultralights.

Not barely, as fast, if not a bit faster.

It absolutely has, literally half of CS pros use the G Pro Wireless in LAN tournaments with a ton of wireless interference and I have yet to hear of anyone having issues with it. Same with the Viper Ultimate, although this isn't as widely adopted as the G Pro.

As long as you don't plan on doing any gaming, sure.

Re #1
so yes.  

I would also say that a mouse can be too light.  People have actually put weights in light mice to make them heavier. 

 

re: #2 speed

not sure how it is possible physics wise to do that. Might be possible that wired development totally stopped but wireless development kept going.  A wireless literally mouse requires more processing.  In apples to apples a wireless signal is just going to be slower than a wired one.  Might not be apples to apples anymore.

 

re: #4 reliability

same point as @Oswin then.  Reduce/near eliminated in some mice.  Draws same question: are they in budget?

 

re: end note (not 5)

I do game with my now 5 year old $5 mouse.  Thing is still sold but it’s a $20 mouse now.   I actually find it too sensitive, because it tends to jump around making aiming difficult.  I attribute that to my essential tremor issues and not the fault of the mouse.   Not a problem I expect other to have.

 

 

8 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

With lights

As you can see, as fast if not slightly faster. 

Would dreamhacks and arenas with thousands of spectators count?

So Goes to perception. No perceptible difference.  Same issue as with SATA SSDs for gaming.  Nvme is lots faster than sata it just doesn’t matter in most or almost all situations. Saturate the port and things become equal if the same port is used. 

 

7 hours ago, gloop said:

Then why do literally every OW Professional player use a G Pro Wireless?

Because wires are a big big problem in most competitive shooters. A great example of how the wire can be crippling and worth removing.  Not the only one.  There is also the whole “I just can’t frocking stand wires!” Thing which could be crippling too.

[PCGuy_5960]

5 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I would also say that a mouse can be too light.  People have actually put weights in light mice to make them heavier. 

Not sure how that's relevant since the point you were making is that wireless mice are too heavy.

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

not sure how it is possible physics wise to do that. Might be possible that wired development totally stopped but wireless development kept going.  A wireless literally mouse requires more processing.  In apples to apples a wireless signal is just going to be slower than a wired one.  Might not be apples to apples anymore.

It actually is possible if the bottleneck is elsewhere, like the USB2.0 connection. And even if it was slower, it is only by 1-2ms which is impossible to notice and can definitely be considered as fast.

8 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

same point as @Oswin then.  Reduce/near eliminated in some mice.  Draws same question: are they in budget?

You can get a G305 for $50 or even less.

9 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I do game with my now 5 year old $5 mouse.  Thing is still sold but it’s a $20 mouse now.   I actually find it too sensitive, because it tends to jump around making aiming difficult.  I attribute that to my essential tremor issues and not the fault of the mouse.   Not a problem I expect other to have.

Yes, but I assume that you aren't that serious about gaming. I doubt it is too sensitive, it's probably not accurate enough TBH.

5 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

So Goes to perception. No perceptible difference.  Same issue as with SATA SSDs for gaming.  Nvme is lots faster than sata it just doesn’t matter in most or almost all situations. 

Not perception, they filmed it with a slow motion camera and the wireless was 1ms faster than wired on average.

[Bombastinator]

28 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Not sure how that's relevant since the point you were making is that wireless mice are too heavy.

It actually is possible if the bottleneck is elsewhere, like the USB2.0 connection. And even if it was slower, it is only by 1-2ms which is impossible to notice and can definitely be considered as fast.

You can get a G305 for $50 or even less.

Yes, but I assume that you aren't that serious about gaming. I doubt it is too sensitive, it's probably not accurate enough TBH.

Not perception, they filmed it with a slow motion camera and the wireless was 1ms faster than wired on average.

Re: weight

wasn’t my point.  I can see how it could come off that way though.  I personally don’t see the point of an ultralight mouse, but apparently others do. So absolutes rather than merely usability.  
 

re: speed

port saturation and perception again.  Treated but interesting flip in between comment on weight.  
 

re: cost

if it’s within range it’s within range.  Would have to compete with a wired mouse at a similar price point though.  One would assume such a mouse would have more features but that might not be the case.

 

Re: camera

The only way that would be possible is if they're  doing more processing but faster. I suspect they’re avoiding using standard mouse drivers and specialty wireless dongles.  So no longer apples to apples.  The speed improvement would not be in the mouse but in the way it’s data is handled.  Could be in computer or in dongle.

Doesnt matter I guess if such specialty stuff is unavailable for wired mice.  It would be a gimp of wired mice.  Possibly deliberate if they use outside software for both. Possibly not deliberate if software improvement is done in dongle.  Logitech has been using software apps for mice for a long time now.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Bombastinator

[Oswin]

18 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

You can get a G305 for $50 or even less.

to add to this a G703 may also be found for under $80 new on some occasions. 

[PCGuy_5960]

12 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

The only way that would be possible is if they're  doing more processing but faster. I suspect they’re avoiding using standard mouse drivers and specialty wireless dongles.  So no longer apples to apples.  The speed improvement would not be in the mouse but in the way it’s data is handled.  Could be in computer or in dongle.

Doesnt matter I guess if such specialty stuff is unavailable for wired mice.  It would be a gimp of wired mice.  Possibly deliberate if they use outside software for both. Possibly not deliberate if software improvement is done in dongle.  Logitech has been using software apps for mice for a long time now.

Dude there isn't some big conspiracy to make wireless mice appear faster or anything, I don't know anyone who uses custom mouse drivers (edit: and CSGO uses raw input so custom mouse drivers make no difference) and I haven't heard anyone complain that their mouse isn't working properly when they don't have G-hub or LGS installed. Yes, Logitech is using custom dongles for each mouse, I think that was obvious, we aren't talking about $5 wireless mice, we are talking about mice that often cost upwards of $100. Doesn't matter how it's done, what matters is that the difference in latency between wired and wireless is pretty much 0.