Choosing a Wireless Mesh System

[GrayTech]

One of my friends asked me to upgrade their home network. We already planned the new ethernet connections but wifi is the biggest problem. They have a one story house but their walls are very good at blocking wifi signal. I put a decent mid range router in the middle of the house and I had connection everywhere but it was too slow. At first I considered using a very powerful router but after some consideration we decided to go with a mesh system which allows us to put one access point at each side of the house and still have decent speeds at the outside.

Now the big question is wich two mesh access points/routers should I get. Max 250€ (I'm from Germany) for both.

[minibois]

1 minute ago, GrayTech said:

One of my friends asked me to upgrade their home network. We already planned the new ethernet connections but wifi is the biggest problem. They have a one story house but their walls are very good at blocking wifi signal. I put a decent mid range router in the middle of the house and I had connection everywhere but it was too slow. At first I considered using a very powerful router but after some consideration we decided to go with a mesh system which allows us to put one access point at each side of the house and still have decent speeds at the outside.

Now the big question is wich two mesh access points/routers should I get. Max 250€ (I'm from Germany) for both.

I have been very happy with AVM and TP-Link mesh systems.

In that price range, that would be about two AVM Fritz!Box 7530 devices or a two/three set of TP-Link Deco M5 or a two pack of TP-Link Deco M9 Plus

[brwainer]

Most mesh systems share a single 5GHz radio for both uplink (from the mesh node to the main node) and downlink (to client devices) meaning throughput is cut at least in half, and latency is badly affected. The best consumer system that does not have this flaw (because each node has two 5GHz radios) is Netgear Orbi. The RBK20 (main node and one satellite) is at the upper end of your budget, so if you have to get a second satellite you would be over the budget. But personally I think it is worth it, I wouldn’t buy a mesh system that has to share a single 5GHz radio.

[GrayTech]

3 minutes ago, brwainer said:

Most mesh systems share a single 5GHz radio for both uplink (from the mesh node to the main node) and downlonk (to client devices) meaning throughput is cut at least in half, and latency is badly affected. The best consumer system that does not have this flaw (because each node has two 5GHz radios) is Netgear Orbi. The RBK20 (main node and one satellite) is at the upper end of your budget, so if you have to get a second satellite you would be over the budget. But personally I think it is worth it, I wouldn’t buy a mesh system that has to share a single 5GHz radio.

There are 4 wireless devices on the same network at best. And if this is the case, at least two are only browsing the web. I don't need the fastest speeds, I just need decent coverage everywhere in the house. installing two access points without a mesh system would be confusing for them but the cheapest solution.

[Metallus97]

Ok youre from Germany! Go with AVM!!! Verry solid and no hassle configuration. On Ebay Kleinanzeigen you will find tons of stuff that will support latest fr!tzOS 7.20. That brings more Mesh shit and WPA3.0. Super modern Mesh with older=cheaper hardware that is!

 

I have a 6591 (my own" Routerfreiheit" FTW)+rp3000. 

 

Is it DSL or DOCSIS?

 

AVM has the best support and least security issues of all vendors for private customers that I know of. Since I have internet I use FR!TZ and love it.

Ne Fritte ist immer ne gute Lösung für Internet Probleme

 

15 minutes ago, GrayTech said:

here are 4 wireless devices on the same network at best. And if this is the case, at least two are only browsing the web. I don't need the fastest speeds, I just need decent coverage everywhere in the house. installing two access points without a mesh system would be confusing for them but the cheapest solution.

 

Oh yeha: How fast is the line? Especially then you will get away with less powerful/cheaper hardware. BUT since it runs the same software its still a top class mesh and best in class security.

[GrayTech]

4 minutes ago, Metallus97 said:

Ok youre from Germany! Go with AVM!!! Verry solid and no hassle configuration. On Ebay Kleinanzeigen you will find tons of stuff that will support latest fr!tzOS 7.20. That brings more Mesh shit and WPA3.0. Super modern Mesh with older=cheaper hardware that is!

 

I have a 6591 (my own" Routerfreiheit" FTW)+rp3000. 

 

Is it DSL or DOCSIS?

 

AVM has the best support and least security issues of all vendors for private customers that I know of. Since I have internet I use FR!TZ and love it.

Ne Fritte ist immer ne gute Lösung für Internet Probleme

It's DSL. And used isn't an option here. They want to buy new.

[Metallus97]

27 minutes ago, minibois said:

I have been very happy with AVM and TP-Link mesh systems.

In that price range, that would be about two AVM Fritz!Box 7530 devices or a two/three set of TP-Link Deco M5 or a two pack of TP-Link Deco M9 Plus

Why double 7530? a repeater 3000 is the same price as the second 7530 and will do a much better job at welllll being a repeater

[GrayTech]

5 minutes ago, Metallus97 said:

Ok youre from Germany! Go with AVM!!! Verry solid and no hassle configuration. On Ebay Kleinanzeigen you will find tons of stuff that will support latest fr!tzOS 7.20. That brings more Mesh shit and WPA3.0. Super modern Mesh with older=cheaper hardware that is!

 

I have a 6591 (my own" Routerfreiheit" FTW)+rp3000. 

 

Is it DSL or DOCSIS?

 

AVM has the best support and least security issues of all vendors for private customers that I know of. Since I have internet I use FR!TZ and love it.

Ne Fritte ist immer ne gute Lösung für Internet Probleme

 

Oh yeha: How fast is the line? Especially then you will get away with less powerful/cheaper hardware. BUT since it runs the same software its still a top class mesh and best in class security.

50k down. With a Netgear R6220 you drop down to 30k with only two bars on my Note 8 at a 3.5m distance to the router with one wall inbetween.

[Metallus97]

roger Roger! 7530+RP 3000

Repeater 2400 would probably enough but the 3000 isnt that much more and has a dedicated backhaul -> more performance 

 

2 minutes ago, GrayTech said:

50k down. With a Netgear R6220 you drop down to 30k with only two bars on my Note 8 at a 3.5m distance to the router with one wall inbetween.

Uh those are big walls then... in that case I revert to 7590+RP 2400. To have the router itself as strong as possible. The extra speed of the Repeater 3000 wont be used anyway

[minibois]

1 minute ago, Metallus97 said:

Why double 7530? a repeater 3000 is the same price as the second 7530 and will do a much better job at welllll being a repeater

I dunno, the 7530 has more connectors if that's important, but a repeater 3000 could also be viable.

[GrayTech]

1 minute ago, Metallus97 said:

Why double 7530? a repeater 3000 is the same price as the second 7530 and will do a much better job at welllll being a repeater

I'm new to mesh networks and I saw many solutions with repeaters and extenders and whatever they call it. I want to connect both mesh access points with an ethernet cable to the main switch.

[GrayTech]

2 minutes ago, Metallus97 said:

roger Roger! 7530+RP 3000

Repeater 2400 would probably enough but the 3000 isnt that much more and has a dedicated backhaul -> more performance 

Wait, I don't want to replace the modem tbh.

[Metallus97]

Just now, GrayTech said:

I'm new to mesh networks and I saw many solutions with repeaters and extenders and whatever they call it. I want to connect both mesh access points with an ethernet cable to the main switch.

yep that works and in that case you wont benefit from the 3000s backhaul. Therefore get the 7590 and a RP2400. 

 

The backhaul would be a second "hidden" Chanel to forward data to the repeater. Since you will be going LAN its not needed and the 2400 will do the job!

Better to put the €€ in the router itself and have it as powerful and as many streams as possible.

[Metallus97]

1 minute ago, GrayTech said:

Wait, I don't want to replace the modem tbh.

OHHHH so you have a Netgear and want to buy two nodes to make a mesh with? The Netgear as the main and the nodes connected via LAN?

[Metallus97]

5 minutes ago, minibois said:

I dunno, the 7530 has more connectors if that's important, but a repeater 3000 could also be viable.

True but the 3000 is MUCH faster at repeating. But since OP want to connect the nodes via LAN this becomes irrelevant.

However yes: The 7530 has more connections but weaker wifi than the RP

[GrayTech]

5 minutes ago, Metallus97 said:

OHHHH so you have a Netgear and want to buy two nodes to make a mesh with? The Netgear as the main and the nodes connected via LAN?

The Netgear was there to test if one router in the middle of the house is enough. Their current setup is one devolo dlan with wireless at the left wall of the house so you have decent internet in the living room and the rest of the house has no wireless which is fast enough for a skype call. Their (non wifi btw) modem is in the basement so replacing it would be useless.

 

Edit: My plan was to put one access point at each side of the house which is directly attached to the modem via ethernet. The house is basically an oval.

[Metallus97]

12 minutes ago, GrayTech said:

The Netgear was there to test if one router in the middle of the house is enough. Their current setup is one devolo dlan with wireless at the left wall of the house so you have decent internet in the living room and the rest of the house has no wireless which is fast enough for a skype call. Their (non wifi btw) modem is in the basement so replacing it would be useless.

Got it.

When going AVM you will still ned a router to be the Mesh Master. Maybe connect a FB4040 to the LAN comming out of the devolo. Disable wifi in the devolo. Then get a pair of RP1200. This setup wont be super fast but good range and a stable mesh at low cost .

4040: 80€

2x 120:2x  60€
= 200€

 

should be fast enough for what youre trying to do. In case you need more range/cover more simply buy another 1200

 

I know I switched form high end to midrange products now. But otherwise we would be over budget and this should still be fast enough. As I read it there are only a few devices and they are not doing that much. Its more about convince and good coverage. Right?

[GrayTech]

2 minutes ago, Metallus97 said:

Got it.

When going AVM you will still ned a router to be the Mesh Master. Maybe connect a FB4040 to the LAN comming out of the devolo. Disable wifi in the devolo. Then get a pair of RP1200. This setup wont be super fast but good range and mesh at low cost 

4040: 80€

2x 120:2x  60€
= 200€

 

should be fast enough for what youre trying to do. In case you need more range/cover more simply buy another 1200

 

I know I switched form high end to midrange products now. But otherwise we would be over budget and this should still be fast enough. As I read it there are only a few devices and they are not doing that much. Its more about convince and good coverage. Right?

The devolo will be replaced with an ethernet cable to the mode/router in the basement. Why can't I just get the 4040 and one RP1200? This would be possible to set up as well. How good is the 4040 wifi?

[Metallus97]

11 minutes ago, GrayTech said:

The devolo will be replaced with an ethernet cable to the mode/router in the basement. Why can't I just get the 4040 and one RP1200? This would be possible to set up as well. How good is the 4040 wifi?

Oh now I double got you . You need one repeater/mesh node... sorry.

4040 wifi = 7530 wifi 

As far as I know it's the same module internaly. The 4040 just has less features and is missing the DSL modem (wich you dont need). Best practice would be to put the provider box in bride mode ->LAN->4040 and let the 4040 be the "boss" router and handle firewall/DHCP and all of this. Then mesh the 1200 with it. 

You could go with a 7590 + RP 1200 that would be in the budget (but close) and leave more performance for the future. But I guess you wont really need it.

You can run the 7530/90 without the DSL modem active. But yeha 4040 will be enough.

 

And when going 4040 you will have budget for another RP in case you want to cover more area.

[GrayTech]

Okay here is the plan then:

Ethernet from the modem in the basement to the 4040 upstairs. then back into the basement (This isn't a problem since every outlet has two ethernet runs.) to the main switch which connects all the other ethernet outlets in the house. Then AP1200 will be connected to an to an ethernet outlet via cable. 

Does this sound good?

[Metallus97]

3 minutes ago, GrayTech said:

Okay here is the plan then:

Ethernet from the modem in the basement to the 4040 upstairs. then back into the basement (This isn't a problem since every outlet has two ethernet runs.) to the main switch which connects all the other ethernet outlets in the house. Then AP1200 will be connected to an to an ethernet outlet via cable. 

Does this sound good?

That sound nice. Make sure to

Put the provider box in bride if possible.

if not disable DHCP in the provider box and put the 4040 in a different subnet.

 

Then in both cases the 4040 will be the boss and handle everything from there.

Having the switch and ethernet in each room (what a dream... I need this...) will enable you to easily expand the mesh and make the 4040 handle and guard the complete traffic.

[GrayTech]

2 minutes ago, Metallus97 said:

That sound nice. Make sure to

Put the provider box in bride if possible.

if not disable DHCP in the provider box and put the 4040 in a different subnet.

 

Then in both cases the 4040 will be the boss and handle everything from there.

Having the switch and ethernet in each room (what a dream... I need this...) will enable you to easily expand the mesh and make the 4040 handle and guard the complete traffic.

Thanks for your help!

Yeah I wanted to do the create a subnet for the 4040. These modems you get from your provider are usually garbage when it comes to configuration.

The house had ethernet runs for some rooms directly into a small room in the basement together with the TV and power cables. This would be the perfect small server room. But whoever installed those ethernet cables did a very bad job. They are mislabled and for the last few years now they weren't even connected. So finding out which cables go to which outlet will be fun.

[Metallus97]

1 minute ago, GrayTech said:

Thanks for your help!

Yeah I wanted to do the create a subnet for the 4040. These modems you get from your provider are usually garbage when it comes to configuration.

The house had ethernet runs for some rooms directly into a small room in the basement together with the TV and power cables. This would be the perfect small server room. But whoever installed those ethernet cables did a very bad job. They are mislabled and for the last few years now they weren't even connected. So finding out which cables go to which outlet will be fun.

Well thats a fun weekend project  

 

And yes the provider stuff is cap. Thats why I convinced Vodafone to not even send me the VodafoneStation pice of . and directly got a 7591....

But sadly I dont have LAN in the walls. Having LAN between the Master and the Node is a huge improvement!

[GrayTech]

1 minute ago, Metallus97 said:

Well thats a fun weekend project  

 

And yes the provider stuff is cap. Thats why I convinced Vodafone to not even send me the VodafoneStation pice of . and directly got a 7591....

But sadly I dont have LAN in the walls. Having LAN between the Master and the Node is a huge improvement!

I got the Vodafone Station today for my own home. It's awful. I set up PiHole in my network but most provider boxes don't even have the option to change the DNS. But I'm currently setting up something more DIY.  

[Metallus97]

On 7/23/2020 at 11:23 PM, GrayTech said:

I got the Vodafone Station today for my own home. It's awful. I set up PiHole in my network but most provider boxes don't even have the option to change the DNS. But I'm currently setting up something more DIY.  

HAHAH red dot but.... thrash quality  

Well as long as you are not in old Unitymedia Land you can enable bridge via the "mein Kabel" website. Then you can use your own router and do what you want.

I am in Unitymedia Land. Thats why I use my own modem+router (6591). UHM and because the wifi and everything is MUCH better in the 6591.

The figging VodafoneStation cant even supply the full gigabit connection... but thats whats you pay for