Ram locked at 2400, out of idea's :(

[RGoodall]

Hi all,

I'm really hoping someone can give me a solution or at least just tell me if I just need to get new RAM at this point as I feel I've tried everything, please let me know if I am missing something, any and all help will be a huge help =)

I recently went from Intel to AMD, (3900x, B450 Tomahawk Max). I carried over the RAM from my old system (Kingston HyperX Prepredator RGB 2x8GB)

 

Now I was never able to overclock the RAM on my old board as it was only an old mini ATX that would not support the speeds, I got the RAM in preparation for this build.

 

Essentially the XMP profiles do not do anything, if I load them, I post, but they simply do not alter anything.

If I adjust the DRAM Frequency manually as well as changing the XMP profile, it will not post, If I change the DRAM frequency any higher than default/Auto, it will not post. (Memory overclock fail press f1 to load into bios ect)

Now I can adjust the timings using DRAM Calc ect, if I manually alter the timings, voltages ect, and it will post, but again the RAM will not shift from 2400. If I adjust the timings and also set the DRAM frequency to 3200 for instance instead of AUTO, it will not post. 

Updated CPU and MOBO chipsets, updated bios, cleared cmos, tried using Ryzen master but I'm not as confident with it, again it lets me alter timings, but as soon as I try and manually set the frequency, nope. 

 

In short, I can change almost everything in the bios without an issue, as soon as I touch "DRAM Frequency" I can't post. I feel like I have tried a combination of everything to no avail. 

I've attached screenshots of DRAM calc, MSI site showing it supports my specific ram at 3200. CPU-z showing locked at 1199mhz ect ect. Yet I am hard locked to 2400 no matter what I try.

 

Thanks guys, so stuck on this! 

[Haro]

What are the advertised speeds of the kit ?

If they are at 2400 then xmp won't do anything 

If you want to manually over clock it to like 2933 ( or just a general manual overclock ) it will depend on the quality of the IC's for the most as the imc is good enough 

If your kit is rated at 3200 ( because your thread really was not clear ) and xmp / docp isn't working 

Update the bios

Set the soc to 1.1 

Dram to 1.35 and try 3200 

Make sure the sticks are in slot 2 and 4 or what ever slot enabled dual channel 

If you want to manually overclock it ( so it's rated at something like 2400 and you want something higher )  

Set the soc to 1.1 

Dram to 1.35 then try 2666 

Use memtest86 and OCCT to verify that it's stable 

 

[RGoodall]

Am I dumb, I just noticed when posting the screenshots, the model number I put in on MSI's website differs to the one grabbed from Thaiphoon (KGX3200C1D4/9 on Thaiphoon, HX432C16PB3A/8) The one I entered on MSI's website is the one printed physically on the side of the RAM?  

[RGoodall]

4 minutes ago, TofuHaroto said:

What are the advertised speeds of the kit ?

If they are at 2400 then xmp won't do anything 

If you want to manually over clock it to like 2933 ( or just a general manual overclock ) it will depend on the quality of the IC's for the most as the imc is good enough 

If your kit is rated at 3200 ( because your thread really was not clear ) and xmp / docp isn't working 

Update the bios

Set the soc to 1.1 

Dram to 1.35 and try 3200 

Make sure the sticks are in slot 2 and 4 or what ever slot enabled dual channel 

If you want to manually overclock it ( so it's rated at something like 2400 and you want something higher )  

Set the soc to 1.1 

Dram to 1.35 then try 2666 

Use memtest86 and OCCT to verify that it's stable 

 

As you can see in the screenshots, its rated at 3200. And as mentioned I've updated Bios ect, tried diff voltages, tried with/without XMP ect. Also, I'm in 2 and 4, and I've also tried with just single stick. No joy. 

[Haro]

1 minute ago, RGoodall said:

The one I entered on MSI's website is the one printed physically on the side of the RAM?  

QVL lists are often inaccurate as they can't test every single module 

Try setting the soc to 1.1 and dram to 1.35 and then try xmp

[KarathKasun]

Also make sure the RAM is installed in the set of slots furthest from the CPU.

 

Bad text illustration follows...

 

CPU socket ---- DIMM A1---- DIMM A2 ---- DIMM B1 ---- DIMM B2

 

Modules should be installed in A2 and B2.

 

To get it working you also likely need to do the following...

Get working TRFC values from Ryzen Master and compare to the DRAM calculator

If TRFC values look off use the higher of the two

Set all other timings from the DRAM timing calculator

Set SOC voltage to ~1.05v

 

The DRAM calculator gives me values for TRFC that are something like 100 lower than what they should be, 470 when it needs to be 560.  The system will not boot if TRFC is too tight with my modules.  I can hardly go below TRFC 540 @ 3400 without random issues.  Im using bottom tier super cheap Hynx MFR modules.

[Haro]

9 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

Set SOC voltage to ~1.05v

A little low 

1.1 would likely be better

[RGoodall]

10 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

Also make sure the RAM is installed in the set of slots furthest from the CPU.

 

Bad text illustration follows...

 

CPU socket ---- DIMM A1---- DIMM A2 ---- DIMM B1 ---- DIMM B2

 

Modules should be installed in A2 and B2.

 

To get it working you also likely need to do the following...

Get working TRFC values from Ryzen Master and compare to the DRAM calculator

If TRFC values look off use the higher of the two

Set all other timings from the DRAM timing calculator

Set SOC voltage to ~1.05v

 

The DRAM calculator gives me values for TRFC that are something like 100 lower than what they should be, 470 when it needs to be 560.  The system will not boot if TRFC is too tight with my modules.  I can hardly go below TRFC 540 @ 3400 without random issues.

Just working from home atm so unable to reboot currently but have all this on my to do list now thank you. Also I do have installed in the right slots.

With regards to the TRFC, in my bios I have TRFC 1/2/4, I've tried a variation of changes here, but I've been assuming the safest bet is changing TRFC 1 and leaving 2/4 on auto? Thanks. 

[KarathKasun]

Just now, TofuHaroto said:

A little low 

1.1 would likely be better

Not for 3000 series.  I can hold 3400 at 1.0v.  Max "safe" SOC voltage is 1.15v and that is generally enough for ~3700.

[KarathKasun]

Just now, RGoodall said:

Just working from home atm so unable to reboot currently but have all this on my to do list now thank you. Also I do have installed in the right slots.

With regards to the TRFC, in my bios I have TRFC 1/2/4, I've tried a variation of changes here, but I've been assuming the safest bet is changing TRFC 1 and leaving 2/4 on auto? Thanks. 

You will get ALL TRFC values from Ryzen Master.  They should not change with speed AFAIK, as the values from my modules default 2133 timings work at 3400.

[KarathKasun]

Worst case you could start with what I have mine set at and try to work them down a bit from there.

 

TRFC: 560

TRFC2: 416

TRFC4: 256

[RGoodall]

I'll try just altering SOC and DRAM Volt and enabling XMP and leave everything else alone for now and see what happens, I'm sure I have already tried it but I'll give it a another whirl. 

So for my own clarification, when selecting the XMP profile of 3200, I shouldn't have to manually change the DRAM frequency itself? I can leave this to AUTO and XMP should set it. As that's the main issue I have, nothing else seems to make any diff, I can alter XMP, Volts, timings ect, I boot fine, but I'm still only running at 2400 in windows. Then if I try the same but changing DRAM frequency manually to 3200, that's when I get memory overclock fail message and it kicks me back into the BIOS. 

[KarathKasun]

4 minutes ago, RGoodall said:

I'll try just altering SOC and DRAM Volt and enabling XMP and leave everything else alone for now and see what happens, I'm sure I have already tried it but I'll give it a another whirl. 

So for my own clarification, when selecting the XMP profile of 3200, I shouldn't have to manually change the DRAM frequency itself? I can leave this to AUTO and XMP should set it. As that's the main issue I have, nothing else seems to make any diff, I can alter XMP, Volts, timings ect, I boot fine, but I'm still only running at 2400 in windows. Then if I try the same but changing DRAM frequency manually to 3200, that's when I get memory overclock fail message and it kicks me back into the BIOS. 

Wont work, XMP already sets those voltages by default.  Generally to 1.05v and 1.35v.

 

XMP just applies a general memory overclocking group of settings then sets frequency and timings based on data in the SPD flash ROM on the memory modules.  The XMP profile is likely setting a timing value that is only correct for Intel based systems.  There are a few timings that are platform dependent. XMP is an intel spec, not an AMD one.

[RGoodall]

See attached, I set the voltages, set the XMP to 3200mhz, left everything else alone, boots fine without any errors, but nothing has actually changed when checking cpuz for instance. (I'm def saving and exiting, been tripple checking myself trying to work this out)

[KarathKasun]

10 minutes ago, RGoodall said:

See attached, I set the voltages, set the XMP to 3200mhz, left everything else alone, boots fine without any errors, but nothing has actually changed when checking cpuz for instance. (I'm def saving and exiting, been tripple checking myself trying to work this out)

 

 

The XMP profile likely just does not work on the board you are using, probably due to some calculation/table used to derive clock cycle timings from wall-clock (ns) timings throwing an error.  Generally this kind of thing doesnt get reported back to the user, the board just uses the fastest JDEC standard timings present in the SPD flash instead.

[RGoodall]

2 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

The XMP profile likely just does not work on the board you are using, probably due to some calculation/table used to derive clock cycle timings from wall-clock (ns) timings throwing an error.  Generally this kind of thing doesnt get reported back to the user, the board just uses the fastest JDEC standard timings present in the SPD flash instead.

So shall I just leave XMP disabled and set my timings volts ect manually? Again I've tried this it boots fine, but still doesn't shift from 2400, it adjusts the timings ect, but doesntly actually adjust my speed. 

It's only if I select DRAM frequency, set that to 3200 instead of auto, and subsequently set the FCLK to half (1600), this is when I can't boot. 

[KarathKasun]

4 minutes ago, RGoodall said:

So shall I just leave XMP disabled and set my timings volts ect manually? Again I've tried this it boots fine, but still doesn't shift from 2400, it adjusts the timings ect, but doesntly actually adjust my speed. 

It's only if I select DRAM frequency, set that to 3200 instead of auto, and subsequently set the FCLK to half (1600), this is when I can't boot. 

If its still at 2400 with XMP on, XMP is broken for your modules.  And if the speed set by the board is wrong, the timings are also likely wrong.

 

You will need to set every single timing by hand.  The Ryzen DRAM calc should get you 95% the way there, just fix its overly optimistic TRFC timings by using the values reported by Ryaen Master when the system is working properly at 2400.

[RGoodall]

I'll go trough and do the attached, I've tried this a few times I think but just while I've got you (big help btw thank you), when I was setting manually yesterday, I was doing everything I could. But is it safe to just try what's highlighted in red and black pen first and see if that works? (I have compare timings on so you can see my existing timings to the right of the suggested ones in DRAM Calc). as you can see with compared timings tRFC for instance is only 2 off my default anyway. Can I ignore what's in the blue on first attempts or will nothing work without changing these settings also. 

 

Also, when settings all these timings manually, should I leave DRAM frequency to auto and FLCK to auto, or change these manually to 3200 & 1600? 

[RGoodall]

No joy, attached is all settings put into bios as shown on dram calc. I've tried various dram and soc voltages but unable to post, I've also adjusted some timings here and there to see if that makes any diff,. "ram overclock failed" every time.  no post.

Again if i leave Dram freq to auto and set FLCK to 1600, i boot but obviously still stuck running at 2400....

[KarathKasun]

Are you sure you have the proper memory chip type selected in the DRAM calculator?

 

Are you on the latest BIOS?

[RGoodall]

On 6/25/2020 at 10:28 PM, KarathKasun said:

Are you sure you have the proper memory chip type selected in the DRAM calculator?

 

Are you on the latest BIOS?

Yeah you can see for yourself in original screenshots on dram calc and Thaiphoon everything is inputted as it should be. Still not found an answer to this, really bloody annoying, hesitant replacing anything as I don't want to replace the RAM for it to be an issue with the motherboard and visa versa. It just makes no sense. ><

[KarathKasun]

4 hours ago, RGoodall said:

Yeah you can see for yourself in original screenshots on dram calc and Thaiphoon everything is inputted as it should be. Still not found an answer to this, really bloody annoying, hesitant replacing anything as I don't want to replace the RAM for it to be an issue with the motherboard and visa versa. It just makes no sense. ><

I can almost assure you that its a timings related problem.  That CPU NB/SOC voltage is also low still.  0.975 is WAY low.

[RGoodall]

UPDATE!! So, I removed one of the sticks, ran off 1 which didn't work, but then swapped the sticks round and used just that 1 also, and that one works fine! Used xmp, without xmp manually doing it, worked fine and was stable at 3200. But yeah, putting in this second stick and go back to the same issue.... sooo faulty ram stick? Or? (They both work perfectly together at 2400, just if I even inch a tiny bit over 2400 with both, it wont boot not matter what I try)

[RGoodall]

Just now, RGoodall said:

UPDATE!! So, I removed one of the sticks, ran off 1 which didn't work, but then swapped the sticks round and used just that 1 also, and that one works fine! Used xmp, without xmp manually doing it, worked fine and was stable at 3200. But yeah, putting in this second stick and go back to the same issue.... sooo faulty ram stick? Or? (They both work perfectly together at 2400, just if I even inch a tiny bit over 2400 with both, it wont boot not matter what I try)

It was stable at 1.1 on soc and 1.35 on dram volt btw with just the 1 stick. 

[KarathKasun]

Try swaping the modules around in the slots.  The SPD may be invalid on one of the sticks, and AFAIK the board only uses one modules SPD data.