PLEASE HELP : Building a Ryzen work PC - Trying to compare to a i7 9700k

[Shaneobrien]

Budget (including currency): Euro €600

Country: Ireland

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Used for Pharmacy Dispensary Software and SQL server

Other details 

 

Hi all, I work for a pharmaceutical software support company. I build and test the hardware that is sent to/back from site. The PCs we use are pretty much used for web browsing and the dispensary software and SQL server. 

 

I need help designing a PC build that will replace my company's current PC of choice. They are currently buying each i7 9700 k for the €1200 mark each. Included in this is a standard mouse and keyboard and a VGA cable. They only use HDD 1 tb as storage.

I am trying to replicate the i7 9700k for as cheap as possible to make the company as financially viable as possible in the hopes I can build the PCs full time.

I have been watching Linus Tech Tips and other PC build videos for awhile before I came up with the idea of replacing the PCs we use for a cheaper alternative that is cost effective but similar to the i7 9700k.

I have been researching build components and the below is the list I have come up with,

 

 

ASUS Prime B450M-A Micro ATX Motherboard, AMD Socket AM4, Ryzen 3000 Ready, PCIe 3.0, M.2, DDR4, LAN, HDMI, DVI-D, D-Sub, USB 3.1, Aura Sync RGB Header

 

 

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Processor (6C/12T, 35 MB Cache, 4.2 GHz Max Boost)

 

 

ASUS GT710-SL-2GD5-BRK GeForce GT 710 2 GB DDR5 Low Profile Graphics Card for Silent HTPC Build (with I/O Port Brackets)

 

 

Seagate HDD Internal 1 TB BarraCuda SATA 3.5 Computer Hard Disk Drive - Silver

 

Ram - Unsure what I need

 

PSU - Unsure of what I need

 

Case - Eye catching

 

Any help or suggestions would be amazing !!! Thank you in advance 

[Electronics Wizardy]

Your gonna want a ssd, its going to be painfully slow on a hard drives.

 

The 710 is pretty gutless to, much slower than the igpu on the i7

 

What is cpu usage on your program? Is it multithreaded? Have you tried disabling cores to see how performance is affected? 

[Mateyyy]

The 3600 is the closest to the 9700K from AMD's Zen 2 line-up.

I wouldn't get that motherboard as it's really poor. Granted it'll work with a 6-core 3600 but still something like an MSI B450M-PRO VDH Max, Asrock B450 Pro4 or heck even a Gigabyte B450 DS3H/S2H would be better.

Also, not having an SSD nowadays is a serious handicap. Especially when they've gotten so much cheaper, I can't really why one would grab an HDD instead. There's a night and day difference between them.

 

Regarding the memory and PSU, if you want to save money look for a dual-channel 3000MHz memory kit and something like a VS450 (the new, grey label model, not the old oraneg label one) or a Seasonic S12III 450W. They're not particularly great and I wouldn't normally recommend them, but for a system with just a 6-core and a GT 710 they should be enough. If anything, also check for pricing on Corsair's CX450.

[svmlegacy]

5 minutes ago, Shaneobrien said:

<snip>

Have you considered a Ryzen 5 APU? What you're asking it to do - Web Browsing, SQL, etc, really doesn't require i7 or 6 core levels of performance, unless you're talking A LOT of SQL transactions (In which case, you'll want a proper server.) You could likely even use an R3 APU without noticing the difference. This would also allow you to not buy a GPU, which a GT 710 is a waste of money outside of being a graphics adapter- It's something to plug your cable into.

[Shaneobrien]

Hey! Thanks for getting back to me so quickly ! I really appreciate it ! 

I could use an SSD for boot and a HDD for overall storage possibly?

 

Im unsure of what CPU usage the program uses but I can find out.

Same can be said for multithreading - unsure but again I can find out from the head developer

[Electronics Wizardy]

3 minutes ago, Shaneobrien said:

I could use an SSD for boot and a HDD for overall storage possibly?

yea you can do that, how much storage do you need total?

 

4 minutes ago, Shaneobrien said:

Same can be said for multithreading - unsure but again I can find out from the head developer

Thats almost easier to test by turning off cores. If the performnace is simmilar with 2 cores or 4 cores disabled, just get the i5 or i3 instead.

 

4 minutes ago, Shaneobrien said:

m unsure of what CPU usage the program uses but I can find out.

task manager screenshot would help to show whats limiting the performance.

[Shaneobrien]

5 minutes ago, svmlegacy said:

Have you considered a Ryzen 5 APU? What you're asking it to do - Web Browsing, SQL, etc, really doesn't require i7 or 6 core levels of performance, unless you're talking A LOT of SQL transactions (In which case, you'll want a proper server.) You could likely even use an R3 APU without noticing the difference. This would also allow you to not buy a GPU, which a GT 710 is a waste of money outside of being a graphics adapter- It's something to plug your cable into.

Thanks for the response!! Originally I had been looking at the Ryzen 5 apu for exactly that reason - the graphics card is not needed.  When you say alot of SQL transactions, i would need a proper server , what do you mean ? in what regard? 

[Shaneobrien]

2 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

yea you can do that, how much storage do you need total?

 

Thats almost easier to test by turning off cores. If the performnace is simmilar with 2 cores or 4 cores disabled, just get the i5 or i3 instead.

 

task manager screenshot would help to show whats limiting the performance.

Brill i can get that tomorrow and post it !

[Shaneobrien]

Just now, Shaneobrien said:

Brill i can get that tomorrow and post it !

The standard memory they have is 1tb

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, Shaneobrien said:

The standard memory they have is 1tb

Do you need high performance io? How much of that 1tb is used?

[Shaneobrien]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

Do you need high performance io? How much of that 1tb is used?

To be honest not alot of the 1tb is actually used , its just a requirement that they insisted on from before I started there a year and a half ago. 

 

How would I figure out if I need a high performance IO?

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, Shaneobrien said:

To be honest not alot of the 1tb is actually used , its just a requirement that they insisted on from before I started there a year and a half ago. 

 

How would I figure out if I need a high performance IO?

What is the disk usage when running the program? 

 

Can you change the requirements if you don't need that 1tb? A 500gb ssd is probalby a much better bet here.

 

also if this is a comapny desktop, just get some dell/hp/lenovo, its cheaper normally, easier to work on, and its good hardware. no reason to go diy pcs at a company normally(there is a reason why almost all company desktops are prebuilts)

[Shaneobrien]

3 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

What is the disk usage when running the program? 

 

Can you change the requirements if you don't need that 1tb? A 500gb ssd is probalby a much better bet here.

 

also if this is a comapny desktop, just get some dell/hp/lenovo, its cheaper normally, easier to work on, and its good hardware. no reason to go diy pcs at a company normally(there is a reason why almost all company desktops are prebuilts)

I can check and get back to you, It is a company desktop that we would be sending to site, the idea being if i could create a build that worked in a similar way we could build them in house as opposed to buying them pre built , but i understand where your coming from

[Electronics Wizardy]

1 minute ago, Shaneobrien said:

I can check and get back to you, It is a company desktop that we would be sending to site, the idea being if i could create a build that worked in a similar way we could build them in house as opposed to buying them pre built , but i understand where your coming from

Id really just get a prebuilt, there much easier to work with. Your not really saving money with a diy, and you normally get better management and driver software for prebuilts aswell.

[svmlegacy]

9 minutes ago, Shaneobrien said:

Thanks for the response!! Originally I had been looking at the Ryzen 5 apu for exactly that reason - the graphics card is not needed.  When you say alot of SQL transactions, i would need a proper server , what do you mean ? in what regard? 

Well, you mentioned that these will be used as an SQL server. A 3rd gen i7/Xeon E3 v2 can easily handle many clients. Lenovo's old TS430 was simulated with 192 checkout lanes (over 500 transactions per minute), for example, and easily kept up. Source: http://www.principledtechnologies.com/clients/reports/Lenovo/ThinkServer_TS430_0112.pdf

 

If it's going into a production environment, you might have more data coming in, which would stress the system more.

 

You'd want a proper server for something mission critical anyways, to have RAS features not present on consumer hardware. If you don't know what that means, you either don't need it, or you're already running a real server.

 

Also keep in mind for companies, part of what your paying for in a desktop is convenience and reliability. When it stops working, you take it back to Lenovo, etc. CYA.

[Shaneobrien]

2 minutes ago, svmlegacy said:

Well, you mentioned that these will be used as an SQL server. A 3rd gen i7/Xeon E3 v2 can easily handle many clients. Lenovo's old TS430 was simulated with 192 checkout lanes (over 500 transactions per minute), for example, and easily kept up. Source: http://www.principledtechnologies.com/clients/reports/Lenovo/ThinkServer_TS430_0112.pdf

 

If it's going into a production environment, you might have more data coming in, which would stress the system more.

 

You'd want a proper server for something mission critical anyways, to have RAS features not present on consumer hardware. If you don't know what that means, you either don't need it, or you're already running a real server.

 

Also keep in mind for companies, part of what your paying for in a desktop is convenience and reliability. When it stops working, you take it back to Lenovo, etc. CYA.

Thats really helpfull! I should probably change the thread just to get those kind of questions! The straight answer is I dont know, I can ask the tester tomorrow and find out but no I dont think it would be that high. 

[Shaneobrien]

47 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

The 3600 is the closest to the 9700K from AMD's Zen 2 line-up.

I wouldn't get that motherboard as it's really poor. Granted it'll work with a 6-core 3600 but still something like an MSI B450M-PRO VDH Max, Asrock B450 Pro4 or heck even a Gigabyte B450 DS3H/S2H would be better.

Also, not having an SSD nowadays is a serious handicap. Especially when they've gotten so much cheaper, I can't really why one would grab an HDD instead. There's a night and day difference between them.

 

Regarding the memory and PSU, if you want to save money look for a dual-channel 3000MHz memory kit and something like a VS450 (the new, grey label model, not the old oraneg label one) or a Seasonic S12III 450W. They're not particularly great and I wouldn't normally recommend them, but for a system with just a 6-core and a GT 710 they should be enough. If anything, also check for pricing on Corsair's CX450.

Thank you , il check out those motherboards! is there any benefit to using a SSD for boot and the HDD for storage? As far as I know they originally wanted the HDD because its easier to restore data if something went wrong ( even though its backed up daily)

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, Shaneobrien said:

Thank you , il check out those motherboards! is there any benefit to using a SSD for boot and the HDD for storage? As far as I know they originally wanted the HDD because its easier to restore data if something went wrong ( even though its backed up daily)

I don't get the easier to restore argument, backups will keep data safe, and ssds are much more reliable aswell.

 

SSDS will make it much faster, launching programs and updates on a hdd is just very slow.

[Shaneobrien]

1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

I don't get the easier to restore argument, backups will keep data safe, and ssds are much more reliable aswell.

 

SSDS will make it much faster, launching programs and updates on a hdd is just very slow.

I agree, im hoping to demonstrate that this time next month

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

1 hour ago, Shaneobrien said:

Thanks for the response!! Originally I had been looking at the Ryzen 5 apu for exactly that reason - the graphics card is not needed.  When you say alot of SQL transactions, i would need a proper server , what do you mean ? in what regard? 

If the Ryzen APUs don't have enough power for what you need, then this might be the one time any would buy an i5-10400. It has performance closer to a i7-9700 and has an iGPU, which would greatly simplify things vs going with R5 3600 + dGPU for about the same price.

 

Ryzen APU is probably the better choice here though. Much better value.