i9-9900KS was melting VRMs, so I went Team Red

[ValkyrieStar]

1 minute ago, TofuHaroto said:

i did not know that lol

 

if you had this good of an experience with zen 1 then zen 2 will be a day and night better 

their imc is still a bit meh but it is certainly miles better than zen 1 

Well, it's actually the first M.2 slot, any other M.2 slot(s) are from the chipset

 

 

Any AM4 board has the first M.2 slot direct from CPU (Ryzen has 4 extra CPU lanes vs Intels)

 

Any other M.2 slot comes from the Chipset.

 

The X570 chipset has 16 pcie 4.0 lanes

The B550 chipset has 4 pcie 3.0 lanes + 8 pcie 2.0 lanes

The X470 chipset and below, they have up to 8 pcie 2.0 lanes (X boards have 8, B boards have 6, A boards have 4).

[Haro]

Just now, ValkyrieStar said:

The X570 chipset has 16 pcie 4.0 lanes

Oh yea that's right I heard somewhere that it runs the same 12nm io die as the zen 2 chips do 

That's why x570 tends to be wayyy more expensive than any other consumer platform

But I could be wrong 

1 minute ago, ValkyrieStar said:

Any AM4 board has the first M.2 slot direct from CPU (Ryzen has 4 extra CPU lanes vs Intels)

 

I remember kabylake having 16 pcie lanes I thought Intel caught up at this point and have got 24 for their consumer cpus 

Guess I'm wrong lmao

[ValkyrieStar]

47 minutes ago, TofuHaroto said:

Oh yea that's right I heard somewhere that it runs the same 12nm io die as the zen 2 chips do 

That's why x570 tends to be wayyy more expensive than any other consumer platform

But I could be wrong 

I remember kabylake having 16 pcie lanes I thought Intel caught up at this point and have got 24 for their consumer cpus 

Guess I'm wrong lmao

It's based off the same design as the IO die, with some slight adjustments.

 

The 4 lanes are now 4 fixed sata ports, two groups of 4 lanes have the option of being used for another 4 sata ports each, or as pcie lanes, and the remaining 8 lanes can do whatever want with (lan, wifi, x1 slots, an x4 slot, or whatever). I'm not sure where audio comes into things though, i'd have thought it'd be built into either cpu or chipset, but i don't know.

 

 

Intel Chipsets have 16 lanes on the CPU, and up to 24 lanes on the chipset (depends on which chipset ofc).

Technically with Z390, if you didn't want any sata or lan, and were happy with only 6 USB ports (plus the 14 2.0 ports), you could have all 24 pcie lanes (the CNVi lan interface takes up one of those LAN lanes, not sure which, i guess it's possible to map it around somewhat like the normal lan ones are), the audio is on its own bus, unnaffected by the PCIe lane layout.

Generally though mobo manufacturers will put the M.2 slots on the lanes which can be mapped to Intel RST for hardware NVMe raid, my MSI board which only had 2 M.2 slots had the bottom x4 slot mappable to RST if you put an NVMe drive in there via an adapter.

One thing that does my head in though, is that the ports are enumerated in a wierd order, #17 first (M2_3), then #21 (M2_2), then #9 (M2_1).

Means i have to install my SSDs in reverse order for them to appear as disk 0,1,2 for drives C/D/E (i'm ocd like that lol).

 

[Haro]

7 hours ago, ValkyrieStar said:

One thing that does my head in though, is that the ports are enumerated in a wierd order, #17 first (M2_3), then #21 (M2_2), then #9 (M2_1).

Means i have to install my SSDs in reverse order for them to appear as disk 0,1,2 for drives C/D/E (i'm ocd like that lol).

That is one thing I seriously hate about their mapping 

Trying to tell which slot is what 

And reading it is a pain 

Imo it's not like AMD's is alot better but it is nicer

That could be just me tho lol

[ValkyrieStar]

1 hour ago, TofuHaroto said:

That is one thing I seriously hate about their mapping 

Trying to tell which slot is what 

And reading it is a pain 

Imo it's not like AMD's is alot better but it is nicer

That could be just me tho lol

Very much so, with AMD generally unless you're using sata based M.2 drives, NVMe M.2's dont take any sata ports away (unless they decide to implement all 12 sata ports and have 8 of them switchable with the two M.2 slots, which admittedly would be pretty cool!

 

With intel, depending on where they'ved mapped the ports to, You lose either 2 or 4 sata ports and you only have a max of 6 to begin with too, so you're left with 4 or 2 ports - not entirely handy. On intel using 3x M.2 NVMes leaves you with practically no chipset lanes left, maybe a couple of x1 slots if you're lucky.

If you want idk a 10gbit lan controller (pcie x4) then unless the x1 slots open ended (where it'd run slow), you're gonna have to use CPU lanes, limiting you to either 1 gpu, or 2 gpus but not being able to SLI/NVLink (crossfire would still work, but why are you using AMD gpus in an already expensive system?).

 

My ASRock Z390 board loses 4 sata ports when all 3 are using NVMes, which to counter this they added an asmedia chip for 2 more ports. Though I have to question their logic though. Thankfully not an issue for me though, as i only use NVMe drives, my case doesn't even have any slots for 2.5/3.5" drives.

 

The X570 Unify board has 3 M.2 slots which can all have NVMe drives simultaneously, you still have all 4 sata ports, and still have all other stuff active on the board. There are some X570 boards which juggle lanes about a little, but personally i'm not too sure why, even with 3 M.2 slots there's still 8 pcie (4.0) lanes floating around. Opposed to like 3 on Intel unless they sacrifice 4 sata ports then it's 5.

 

Some manufacturers are smart about how they manage their board resources (MSI X570 Unify/ACE), some seem to half try, then screw up, and others just were bad from the begining, my ASRock board is a proper mess with 4 devices all piggybacked off port #7.

[Haro]

1 minute ago, ValkyrieStar said:

With intel, depending on where they'ved mapped the ports to, You lose either 2 or 4 sata ports and you only have a max of 6 to begin with too, so you're left with 4 or 2 ports - not entirely handy. On intel using 3x M.2 NVMes leaves you with practically no chipset lanes left, maybe a couple of x1 slots if you're lucky.

Oh yea that's right 

One of the downsides of Intel's chipset and what annoys people about it at least from what I have seen is that they would plug a SATA drive in a SATA data connector that is blocked (due to bandwidth limitations that would occure with an m.2 installed) and they would not know why it's not being detected because at least for me 

I would not check that as the first thing 

4 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

The X570 Unify board has 3 M.2 slots which can all have NVMe drives simultaneously, you still have all 4 sata ports, and still have all other stuff active on the board. There are some X570 boards which juggle lanes about a little, but personally i'm not too sure why, even with 3 M.2 slots there's still 8 pcie (4.0) lanes floating around. Opposed to like 3 on Intel unless they sacrifice 4 sata ports then it's 5.

That 12nm io die 

While expensive it is still worth every penny imo 

It really makes the x570 make the pga 1331 platform a platform for both consumers and even maybe people with professional uses 

[ValkyrieStar]

2 minutes ago, TofuHaroto said:

Oh yea that's right 

One of the downsides of Intel's chipset and what annoys people about it at least from what I have seen is that they would plug a SATA drive in a SATA data connector that is blocked (due to bandwidth limitations that would occure with an m.2 installed) and they would not know why it's not being detected because at least for me 

I would not check that as the first thing 

That 12nm io die 

While expensive it is still worth every penny imo 

It really makes the x570 make the pga 1331 platform a platform for both consumers and even maybe people with professional uses 

I've completely disregarded AM4 due to the lack of PCIe lanes until X570 came out, now it's become relevant again for me.

The fact it scales up to 16 cores now (i'll be waiting for the 4950X) is even better still.

 

I don't trust Gigabyte for their BIOSes, i don't like ASRocks hardware (they used to be really good, i had the ASRock Z77 Professional-M with a 3770K delidded at 5ghz for like 3 years straight, that thing was a beast), and ASUS is well, ASUS, they do wierd setups with slots and are generally expensive as heck for what they actually offer - though their bioses used to be really nice, they seem to have gotten a little convoluted but are still pretty solid.

 

MSI's BIOSes are absolutely solid, they manage to do very well even with weaker vrm (on paper), the £130 (when i bought it) Z390 Gaming Edge AC, actually far outperformed the £275 (when i bought it) ASRock Phantom Gaming 9 in terms of VRM (and BIOS implementation), i think that tells enough.

 

Fingers crossed the X570 Unify will turn out great tomorrowwww  damn everything's happening at the moment, i've got tonnes of work, new pc parts tomorrow, and my car is getting a new turbo fitted on monday. No rest for the wicked eh

[Haro]

9 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

I don't trust Gigabyte for their BIOSes

Oh yeah it has gotten down hill 

It is kind of crap sadly

I really like gigabyte but they have been messing alot recently

10 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

don't like ASRocks hardware (they used to be really good, i had the ASRock Z77 Professional-M with a 3770K

For the most part ASRock 

Is doing really good with budget end stuff but for high end they have their aqua x570 which is single handedly the best looking and best performing x570 imo 

It has a 10 + 2 phase power design and it has a full water block which is nice 

If you didn't order an x570 (I assume you did because of the last paragraph ) and you are looking for A SUPER high end x570 board 

That is a really nice board 

Only disadvantage is that it's 1000 dollars

12 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

MSI's BIOSes are absolutely solid, they manage to do very well even with weaker vrm (on paper), the £130 (when i bought it) Z390 Gaming Edge AC, actually far outperformed the £275 (when i bought it) ASRock Phantom Gaming 9 in terms of VRM (and BIOS implementation), i think that tells enough.

I would say the same if I have not dealt with so many problems on this forum 

With people dealing with msi's bios 

For some reason XMP/ DCOP just does not work nicely with msi mobos 

14 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

Fingers crossed the X570 Unify will turn out great tomorrowwww  damn everything's happening at the moment, i've got tonnes of work, new pc parts tomorrow, and my car is getting a new turbo fitted on monday. No rest for the wicked eh

Good luck with everything

Pga 1331 is a decent platform and won't disappoint

[ValkyrieStar]

27 minutes ago, TofuHaroto said:

Oh yeah it has gotten down hill 

It is kind of crap sadly

I really like gigabyte but they have been messing alot recently

For the most part ASRock 

Is doing really good with budget end stuff but for high end they have their aqua x570 which is single handedly the best looking and best performing x570 imo 

It has a 10 + 2 phase power design and it has a full water block which is nice 

If you didn't order an x570 (I assume you did because of the last paragraph ) and you are looking for A SUPER high end x570 board 

That is a really nice board 

Only disadvantage is that it's 1000 dollars

I would say the same if I have not dealt with so many problems on this forum 

With people dealing with msi's bios 

For some reason XMP/ DCOP just does not work nicely with msi mobos 

Good luck with everything

Pga 1331 is a decent platform and won't disappoint

The MSI board i had, was 5 phases with 2 sets of mosfets & chokes per phase (non doubled), old style seperate mosfets for high/low side, yet it took a good 10 minutes before that reached throttle point (115c), and when it did, it did so softly, lowering clocks by 100mhz at a time until temp didn't climb anymore, usually sitting at about 4.6-4.7ghz.

 

My current ASRock board, is 5 phases doubled for 10 phases, using powerstages, yet running prime95 overheats the VRM within 10-15 seconds, and my ffmpeg takes only a minute at most. When it does throttle it likes to flip between 4ghz and 5ghz causing a momentary freeze each time, sometimes it even gets so hot it climbs beyond its throttle point to mad temperatures like 130c+

 

To say the ASRock board is almost double the price, for in practice a worse VRM (on paper it should be better), worse thermal management, plus the fact i had to modify the BIOS to make NVMe drives run properly. In return for 1 extra M.2 slot and two extra LAN ports which will never get used (by me at least). It's definitely not worth the price.

 

The Z390 Taichi (and Taichi Ultimate) have the same VRM as the Phantom Gaming 9, the Taichi Ultimate being their flagship board for Z390, which can't even handle a 9900KS at stock, yeah they did something really bad with Z390..

 

As you say, for the most part, X570 boards have decent VRMs even in the budget area, just wish that was true for Z390 lmao.

 

I've already ordered the MSI X570 Unify (and a 3600 to get me by till the 4950X comes out), they're due to arrive tomorrow all being well. I don't have an AM4 adapter for my AIO, so i might have to use the Wraith Stealth cooler until that arrives (gonna expect that probably monday-tuesday), but no biggie as at least it comes with a stock cooler, and i can just fit the bracket and mount the AIO once it arrives.

 

I'll probably aim for a 4.3-4.4ghz all core OC, maybe more it it's thermally permitting, not overly concerned about longevity, so long as it's not overheating and throttling.

[Haro]

3 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

The Z390 Taichi (and Taichi Ultimate) have the same VRM as the Phantom Gaming 9, the Taichi Ultimate being their flagship board for Z390, which can't even handle a 9900KS at stock, yeah they did something really bad with Z390..

Woah ?! Really 

I thought the taichi was much better quality than this 

Considering the amount of good reviews it gets 

But it could be just the z390 sku 

4 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

I'll probably aim for a 4.3-4.4ghz all core OC, maybe more it it's thermally permitting, not overly concerned about longevity, so long as it's not overheating and throttling

Hopefully you'll get there 

But one thing is 

If your trying to get quad channel with these numbers it might be a little difficult because you would be dealing with an interconnect and multiple ccxs (obviously)

But all of this comes down to silicon quality

5 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

The MSI board i had, was 5 phases with 2 sets of mosfets & chokes per phase (non doubled), old style seperate mosfets for high/low side, yet it took a good 10 minutes before that reached throttle point (115c), and when it did, it did so softly, lowering clocks by 100mhz at a time until temp didn't climb anymore, usually sitting at about 4.6-4.7ghz.

Msi boards interms of physical quality is great but what's not great is the bios 

Mainly in their am4 lineup of Mobo

No idea about LGA 1151 tho 

7 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

i might have to use the Wraith Stealth cooler until that arrives (gonna expect that probably monday-tuesday), but no biggie as at least it comes with a stock cooler, and i can just fit the bracket and mount the AIO once it arrives.

The stock cooler is really good for a temporary solution 

It's decent and you can even get a decent ox on the 3600 with it 

Over all good luck with the new build

I was surprised how kind of janky the z390 platform is with these boards and their vrms and mosfets quality but I guess you learn something new every day

 

[ValkyrieStar]

3 minutes ago, TofuHaroto said:

If your trying to get quad channel with these numbers it might be a little difficult because you would be dealing with an interconnect and multiple ccxs (obviously)

But all of this comes down to silicon quality

Not sure what you mean here?

3 minutes ago, TofuHaroto said:

Msi boards interms of physical quality is great but what's not great is the bios 

Mainly in their am4 lineup of Mobo

No idea about LGA 1151 tho 

I've found generally MSI bioses have been well up to scratch. Budget MSI Gaming Edge AC has more BIOS features than the more higher end ASRock Phantom Gaming 9

4 minutes ago, TofuHaroto said:

I was surprised how kind of janky the z390 platform is with these boards and their vrms and mosfets quality but I guess you learn something new every day

Yep, i've no idea what anyone was thinking, Gigabyte was the only one who did decent VRMs on anything other than flagship but their BIOSes are just so awful i can't bear to use one (plus personally i hate their styling of their motherboards), MSI's Z390 ACE and Godlike were among the top, the budget ones weren't so great but still pulled above their weight. ASUS did some wierd stuff with a 4 phase Maximus Hero board which was far more expensive than any of their competitors equivalent boards. ASRocks whole Z390 series have bios issues with NVMe iops being really low (can be fixed without modding bios by disabling C-States but then the cpu runs hot at idle), and the VRMs are just outright bad.

11 minutes ago, TofuHaroto said:

The stock cooler is really good for a temporary solution 

It's decent and you can even get a decent ox on the 3600 with it 

Over all good luck with the new build

Thanks! I'll update with pics once everything's arrived and in my system  it's irking me in the back of my mind that it's only a 3600 and not the 3950X and it'll be a slower than the 9900KS till the 4950X comes (unless i give in and get the 3950X lol), but i suppose at least the motherboard won't be trying to self combust 24/7.

[Haro]

2 hours ago, ValkyrieStar said:

Not sure what you mean here?

What I was saying is 

If your running quad memory 

You might have a bit of trouble with xmp/dcop and the over clock but alot of that depends on the imc and the Interconnect's silicon quality

2 hours ago, ValkyrieStar said:

it's irking me in the back of my mind that it's only a 3600 and not the 3950X and it'll be a slower than the 9900KS till the 4950X comes

Actually it will probably be way less of a downgrade than what you are expecting right now

I mean 6 hyper threaded cores are no slouch and the 3600 still has decent ipc and will be a good temporary solution until your next upgrade

Edited May 28, 2020 by TofuHaroto
correction

[Nena Trinity]

If worried put a tiny fan on it like I did with my MSI 970 Gaming motherboard.

[ValkyrieStar]

2 hours ago, TofuHaroto said:

What I was saying is 

If your running quad channel memory 

You might have a bit of trouble with xmp/dcop and the over clock but alot of that depends on the imc and the Interconnect's silicon quality

Actually it will probably be way less of a downgrade than what you are expecting right now

I mean 6 hyper threaded cores are no slouch and the 3600 still has decent ipc and will be a good temporary solution until your next upgrade

AM4 is only dual channel, i assume you mean 4 sticks of ram? I'm only running 3200 C16 ram, shouldn't be an issue, MSI boards generally clock well even with 4 sticks. 3200C16 was no issue on my old threadripper 1st gen 1950X, so i'd hazard a guess and say it's most likely ok on X570.

 

FFmpeg encodes scale better with more cores, i suppose 6 cores isn't a huge drop from 8 (i was going to get the 3300X but that was out of stock at the time) so long as i can get a semi decent OC on the CPU. As i say i'm aiming for 4.3-4.4, maybe higher if my 360mm AIO can keep it cool (not too concerned about degredation, i won't be keeping it too long, and when i am done with it, i'm planning on dropping that cpu into an ITX system which would just be ran at stock).

[ValkyrieStar]

43 minutes ago, Nena360 said:

If worried put a tiny fan on it like I did with my MSI 970 Gaming motherboard.

Or my better solution of going to X570

 

Z490 was a serious contender, but the fact X570 goes up to 16 cores and will offer me unrestricted NVMe IO compared to it, that's what got me  

[Haro]

Just now, ValkyrieStar said:

i assume you mean 4 sticks of ram?

yea i only noticed that i said quad channel now 

my bad lmao 

Just now, ValkyrieStar said:

I'm only running 3200 C16 ram, shouldn't be an issue, MSI boards generally clock well even with 4 sticks. 3200C16 was no issue on my old threadripper 1st gen 1950X, so i'd hazard a guess and say it's most likely ok on X570.

hopefully it is 

i heard alot of good and bad things about zen 2 imc but over all 

i cant really say if its good or not 

2 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

i won't be keeping it too long, and when i am done with it, i'm planning on dropping that cpu into an ITX system which would just be ran at stock).

yea that would be nice 

itx is one of the best form factors imo

[ValkyrieStar]

On 5/28/2020 at 3:29 PM, TofuHaroto said:

yea i only noticed that i said quad channel now 

my bad lmao 

hopefully it is 

i heard alot of good and bad things about zen 2 imc but over all 

i cant really say if its good or not 

yea that would be nice 

itx is one of the best form factors imo

Unfortunately the board and cpu still haven't arrived, it's looking like tuesday before i get them. Even if they do arrive monday i won't have time as my car is getting its new turbo fitted. Damn this coronavirus delaying crap  

 

The Zen2 IMC is good for quite high memory clocks, the infinity fabric starts breaking up around 1900 so to go higher than DDR4 3800 you must unlink the ram from the infinity fabric. There's two options when doing that, either run it at half to maintain low latency at the cost of less throughput, or run it at an odd ratio which incurrs additional latency but higher throughput.

 

The best option though is to stick at DDR4 3800 (or whatever the max is to maintain 1:1 ratio with infinity fabric), and get the timings as tight as possible, that way everything is running in sync for the lowest latency possible, which most tasks benefit from most. That'll also not limit core OC's in any meaningful way, so you'll achieve the most highly tuned, lowest latency setup possible.

[Haro]

3 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

Unfortunately the board and cpu still haven't arrived, it's looking like tuesday before i get them. Even if they do arrive monday i won't have time as my car is getting its new turbo fitted. Damn this coronavirus delaying crap  

 

The Zen2 IMC is good for quite high memory clocks, the infinity fabric starts breaking up around 1900 so to go higher than DDR4 3800 you must unlink the ram from the infinity fabric. There's two options when doing that, either run it at half to maintain low latency at the cost of less throughput, or run it at an odd ratio which incurrs additional latency but higher throughput.

 

The best option though is to stick at DDR4 3800 (or whatever the max is to maintain 1:1 ratio with infinity fabric), and get the timings as tight as possible, that way everything is running in sync for the lowest latency possible, which most tasks benefit from most. That'll also not limit core OC's in any meaningful way, so you'll achieve the most highly tuned, lowest latency setup possible.

Wouldn't say anything differently in my honest opinion 

100% agree with you

And yes COVID sucks 

[jones177]

To me the CPU Package Power tells the hole story since it is about 120 watts higher than the all core 5ghz overclock I have on a i9 9900k running Cinebench.

 

Your AIO is doing a great job but it is masking the real issue and that is too much voltage to the CPU.

 

 

 

 

[ValkyrieStar]

On 5/31/2020 at 5:07 PM, jones177 said:

To me the CPU Package Power tells the hole story since it is about 120 watts higher than the all core 5ghz overclock I have on a i9 9900k running Cinebench.

 

Your AIO is doing a great job but it is masking the real issue and that is too much voltage to the CPU.

 

 

 

 

Cinebench pulls hardly ny power compared to my encoding. The Cpu Package Power is also incorrect, that's based off VID which as i'm undervolted by 50mv, is incorrect, check the VR VOUT for actual voltage, which for 5ghz isn't too bad, in prime95 it sits around 1.185v for 5ghz all core. Or at least, it did, as i've now gotten my X570 and R5 3600 (yeah, a downgrade from the 9900KS, but i'm waiting for Zen3 for the 4950X, no use spending all that money for a 3950X when it'll get replaced in a few months).

 

The AIO can handle like 1.3v+ in prime95 and has done so while shooting for a mad OC, (i had it at 5.3ghz for a little while, but that really was burning the VRMs), this board just reallllly sucks, it just can't handle any sustained load, the VRM overheats and throttles back hard.

 

On 5/31/2020 at 4:20 PM, TofuHaroto said:

Wouldn't say anything differently in my honest opinion 

100% agree with you

And yes COVID sucks 

The MSI X570 Unify and R5 3600 arrived today (well, yesterday actually, though after spending 8 hours outside replacing the turbo on my car, i just went inside, had food and passed out.. so it only got opened today).

 

Everything's all installed and running nicely, i must have got a particularly sh*tty stock cooler, the cpu easily hits 95c with it, i might try repaste it. That'll be solved once the bracket for my AIO arrives, which hopefully will be in the next couple of days.

 

RAM is nicely clocked at 3200mhz (XMP worked surprisingly), interestingly, even though it's dual rank, 4 dimms, it's decided that it's going to run at 1T command rate.

 

The only niggle i have with it, is that at idle, the fans like to go loopy, i looked into this and found why;

 

Even though actual core temps are never rising even above 45c, the Tctl keeps doing wierd stuff, makes the fans scream for a second and ramp down endlessly looping, incredibly annoying! This kinda behaviour stopped when i applied an all-core OC to my 1950X but idk why it's doing it now here, thought they'd have fixed that rubbish by now.

Anyone know how to remedy it? That slight peak to 50c (opening chrome) on CCD1 resulted in a peak of 72c on Tctl, ramping the fans close to 100%.

[Haro]

3 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

RAM is nicely clocked at 3200mhz (XMP worked surprisingly), interestingly, even though it's dual rank, 4 dimms, it's decided that it's going to run at 1T command rate.

Yea I mean even with an overclock the Interconnect should handle 

You can even get higher frequency with a mild Soc bump and some work

5 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

the Tctl keeps doing wierd stuff, makes the fans scream for a second and ramp down endlessly looping, incredibly annoying!

I would like to note that ryzen is incredibly inconsistent with temps and it can be crazy and with a stock cooler sadly you will have to deal with it until you get an aftermarket cooler 

 

6 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

Anyone know how to remedy it? That slight peak to 50c (opening chrome) on CCD1 resulted in a peak of 72c on Tctl, ramping the fans close to 100%.

I mean it depends 

Only use ryzen master to 100% correctly monitor your temps 

Even hwinfo64 is often incorrect because there are just too many factors that can change the temps even the slightest change can affect it dramatically

7 minutes ago, ValkyrieStar said:

Everything's all installed and running nicely, i must have got a particularly sh*tty stock cooler, the cpu easily hits 95c with it, i might try repaste it.

If you want to just be 100% sure make sure the cooler is on correctly 

Can happen

[Falkentyne]

On 5/27/2020 at 9:21 AM, mariushm said:

 

93c makes sense. That's most likely a sensor between the power stages/mosfets.

 

127c is a false measurement, it's like a default number that's never updated, the software is reading the incorrect sensor or the motherboard never updates that.

It's the maximum value that can be stored in a byte, if you ignore the sign 0b01111111  or 0x7F

Well,,, i suppose it COULD be internal measurement from within a power stage/mosfet (direct from chip die) so that would be acceptable because that would correlate to around 95-100c on the surface of the chip, outside the packaging.

 

Basic measurements

 

1. Lick your finger

2. Place your wet finger on a heatsink

* Can hold it indefinitely : under around 50-60c 

* can hold it for at least 3-5 seconds until it gets too hot ... you're under 80c - ish

* the liquid on your finger sizzles or you can't hold finger for more than a few seconds ... you're near 100c or over ... time to worry.

 

the cpu vrm can work at up to 100c for long periods of time, and should throttle (slow down cpu) when you go over 105-110c. The chips under the heatsink are rated for at least 125c but most motherboards will make an effort to not go above 100c for significant periods of time because over time (thousands of hours of working at high temperature) the actual circuit board can degrade to the point where it can become brittle or conductive and then it's game over.

 

On 5/27/2020 at 9:13 AM, ValkyrieStar said:

2-3c drop and that's about it. I even removed the plastic cover around the IO shield in the hopes that would help, it just slightly prolonged how long it took before reaching these temps.

 

The VRM is definitely HOT though, i touched one of the heatsinks for a fraction of a second and got burnt by it (enough so that it felt tingly for a few hours afterward!)

The VRM is measuring accurately.

Have you guys actually looked what current he's drawing? He's drawing **207 amps* through a 9900k!!  207 amps!!  that's more than the absolute max given by Intel.

Even a full ATX board with a beefy VRM heatsink would be hitting over 70C with that type of power draw.  But OP is using the phantom gaming ITX which buidzoid even mentioned ---runs HOT.  Just stop running FMA3 prime95 on that thing and you won't get temps that hot.

(edit) ok that's not the phantom gaming itx. But you're still drawing 207 amps on a chip with an absolute max IOUT of 193A, with a VRM not designed for that kind of current load.

 

And for the rest of you, Loop 2 is the iGPU VRM loop.  Loop1 is for cpu vcore.  That's why loop1 is hotter.  I'm honestly surprised that CPU is stable with that current.  But please don't do that.  You're going to slowly degrade that chip (max IOUT=193A).

[ValkyrieStar]

20 hours ago, Falkentyne said:

 

The VRM is measuring accurately.

Have you guys actually looked what current he's drawing? He's drawing **207 amps* through a 9900k!!  207 amps!!  that's more than the absolute max given by Intel.

Even a full ATX board with a beefy VRM heatsink would be hitting over 70C with that type of power draw.  But OP is using the phantom gaming ITX which buidzoid even mentioned ---runs HOT.  Just stop running FMA3 prime95 on that thing and you won't get temps that hot.

(edit) ok that's not the phantom gaming itx. But you're still drawing 207 amps on a chip with an absolute max IOUT of 193A, with a VRM not designed for that kind of current load.

 

And for the rest of you, Loop 2 is the iGPU VRM loop.  Loop1 is for cpu vcore.  That's why loop1 is hotter.  I'm honestly surprised that CPU is stable with that current.  But please don't do that.  You're going to slowly degrade that chip (max IOUT=193A).

It's stock, well, except for the power limits disabled. I did have the current limit set at 193A but occasionally it did seem to like to spike above that (i've seen as high as 211A)

 

Yeah, it's the Z390 Phantom Gaming 9, full size ATX board, i've looked into it and it has just about the worse VRM possible for its price point, even the far cheaper MSI Z390 Gaming Edge AC fared better, for the most part hovering around the 105c with the 9900K (which pulled a similar current but more power at 5ghz), only occasionally getting too hot if it was a particularly hot day.

 

My X570 ACE, after a day with the stock cooler, i was hitting VRM temperatures in the mid-high 50s, and the CPU loved to constantly run at 95c when playing valorant, thankfully the AIO bracket arrived today though, and even in synthetic loads the CPU only hits low 70s (with precision boost limits set to the motherboard design limits - the 3600 isn't getting anywhere close to them lol), and AutoOC enabled, it's hitting 4.4ghz on 4 out of the 6 cores, and 4.35ghz on the two worst cores. I'd bet a 4.4ghz should be easily possible. At some point i'll get round to locking in a nice OC with it. Now i've got the AIO bracket, those high 50s VRM temperatures are now high 30s VRM temperatures, i'm guessing the CPU cooler was heating the VRM more than the current draw lol.

 

Idle temps are now a heck of a lot lower, ~28c vs like ~45c before, well, if you look at the actual CCD temperature anyway, the Tctl is going completely mad still;

 

 

I was going to lock in a nice P-State OC, but it seems like P-State OC'ing is a thing which doesn't exist anymore, shame, it was a nice way to have decent idle temps and a high all-core OC, it would even run at intermediate clocks if it didn't need it, and that stupid Tctl bug wasn't there either.

[Haro]

1 minute ago, ValkyrieStar said:

At some point i'll get round to locking in a nice OC with it

if you spend a little bit of time and effort especially with the new patches coming with better silicon as a whole

you should be able to get a pretty good oc  

[ValkyrieStar]

10 hours ago, TofuHaroto said:

if you spend a little bit of time and effort especially with the new patches coming with better silicon as a whole

you should be able to get a pretty good oc  

Well, i did some more tweaking here and there, finally got the fan profile setup in a manner where it's not yo-yo-ing, i suppose, when i get round to custom looping the whole system later this year (once i get a nice gpu and 4950X for it), i'll be setting it based off water temperature vs ambient temperature, so it's a workaround for now.

 

For temp monitoring i've found that;

CPU CCDx (Tdie) is the spontaneous measurement of each die (im presuming it's hotspot temp),

CPU Die (average) reading is a smoothened out version of much the same,

CPU (Tctl) is just some mad yoyo wierd ass thing that some derp coded and they forgot to fix ever.

 

So for now i'm sticking with the CPU Die (average), as that's easiest to read, while it'd be nice if i could base the fan&pump speed off that, it'll have to do as it is.

 

While playing games and encoding (which sustains a better avg fps with less stutter than the intel system), the VRM hit an absolutely insanely meltingly high temperature of 57c (/s), pretty sure most of that was the GPU heating up the case, as now i've finished gaming and the encoding is still running (with a fairly warm room) it's now sitting happily at 45c VRM.

 

My encodes which usually finish with an average at or below 4.5fps, i've been hovering around 4.0 fps the past two encodes i've cared to check up on. Not a huge drop, and it'll certainly pick up a few once the 4950X gets dropped in  

With PBO disabled and AutoOC off it hovers around the 3.9-3.95GHz mark, PBO limits disabled about 4.0GHz, then AutoOC also set to +200MHz gets about 4.1GHz avarage.

With lighter threaded loads, all cores can achieve 4.2GHz with no AutoOC, and 4 of 6 cores hit 4.4GHz with AutoOC to +200MHz, the last two cores not far behind either. I must not have gotten too bad a sample to get that big of a boost with AutoOC. Single core perf on Cinebench R15 is almost on par with the 9900K/KS with 209, multithreaded isn't too far off either, with 1660.