Choosing a premium second-hand PSU or replacing the fan

[Krzeszny]

Hello LTT community, I'm Krzeszny. I have a PC with a SilentiumPC Supremo M2 550 Watt PSU that requires 500 W. However, the PSU is too loud - 36,6 33 dbA on idle but it hums. It's somewhat quiet but many times louder than anything else in my PC.

 

I was about to buy an Antec HCP-850 but the seller changed his mind so I have a tougher choice now.

 

Out of these used PSU's, how would you order them by longevity and why? I'm not planning on upgrading anything except for exchanging my GTX 970 with a RX 580 when it dies due to a VRM issue. Prices converted to US dollars:

 

1. Enermax Revolution 87+ 1000W (50 bucks, retailed for 200) - Tier 1 in 2013, modular cables not included

2. Cooler Master V1000 & V850 80 Plus Gold (850W has 1 year of warranty left) (50 bucks for any of them, retailed for ~185) - Tier A

3. Antec EarthWatts Platinum EA-650D (35 bucks, retailed for 110) - Tier C because it has "high overload ripple". I'm never going ot use it above 550 Watts. Its case is scratched all over, seen here.

4. Corsair RM650x (50 bucks, retailed for 120) - Tier A, modular cables not included

5. Be quiet Dark Power Pro 11 550W (P11) (40 bucks, retails for 150), modular cables not included

 

Edit: also

6. Super Flower Golden Green SF-450P14XE (30 bucks) Tier B+ - some reviews mention that it's not very quiet

7. Antec TruePower New 650W (40) - with a modded fan - Dark Pro Wings

8. Be quiet Pure Power 10 400W (40) - B+

9. Seasonic Gold X-560 SS-560KM Active PFC F3 (50) - Tier A

 

I have no idea why so many people sell them without modular cables but I can always buy the cables if it's worth the hassle. I only need modulars for my SSD, HDD and a fan controller.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Krzeszny
PSU list edited + some details

[Meganter]

2 minutes ago, Krzeszny said:

 

Hello,

 

My advise is to never get used PSU.

 

Since your missing the cables, which will probably cost you as much as the unit itself, I'd recommend to get a brand new RM, RMx or TXm from Corsair, a Bitefenix Formula Gold or Whisper M, Phanteks AMP, all available in 550/650W.

[Jurrunio]

V850 seems like the best, followed by the V1000

 

RM650x is just a worse deal when you need to buy custom cables, also lower wattage

Same for Dark Rock Pro

Good luck finding custom cables for something as old as the Enermax Rev

Units that look like it is a veteran from Iraq should not be considered at all

[Sir0Tek]

32 minutes ago, Krzeszny said:

Hello LTT community, I'm Krzeszny. I have a PC with a SilentiumPC Supremo M2 550 Watt PSU that requires 500 W. However, the PSU is too loud - 36,6 dbA on idle. It is many times louder than anything else in my PC.

 

I was about to buy an Antec HCP-850 but the seller changed his mind so I have a tougher choice now.

 

Out of these used PSU's, how would you order them by longevity and why? I'm not planning on upgrading anything except for exchanging my GTX 970 with a RX 580 when it dies due to a VRM issue. Prices converted to US dollars:

 

1. Enermax Revolution 87+ 1000W (50 bucks, retailed for 200) - Tier 1 in 2013, modular cables not included

2. Cooler Master V1000 & V850 80 Plus Gold (850W has 1 year of warranty left) (50 bucks for any of them, retailed for ~185) - Tier A

3. Antec EarthWatts Platinum EA-650D (35 bucks, retailed for 110) - Tier C because it has "high overload ripple". I'm never going ot use it above 550 Watts. Its case is scratched all over, seen here.

4. Corsair RM650x (50 bucks, retailed for 120) - Tier A, modular cables not included

5. Be quiet Dark Power Pro 11 550W (P11) (40 bucks, retails for 150), modular cables not included

 

I have no idea why so many people sell them without modular cables but I can always buy the cables if it's worth the hassle. I only need modulars for my SSD, HDD and a fan controller.

 

How do you know your pc does require 500w, and is it peak or continuous?

You're living in Poland, I have no idea how the situation generally is but if your retail price is of any indication it makes sense to look for refurbished/used. You should always check how long these psus have been in use, and you must make sure to check them once you finally got them.

Hence, recommending anything used is hard, but all I can say is that I got a few Antecs and so far they did reasonably well. I just don't know if yours is a silent one.

 

 

[Stormseeker9]

29 minutes ago, Krzeszny said:

Hello LTT community, I'm Krzeszny

I wouldn’t recommend buying used psu’s in the first place; you don’t know what happened to them. Second; ones where cables are not included and have to be ordered doesn’t make sense as you’ll pay more of similar for the cables as you bought the psu for (based on your list).

 

save up some more and perhaps get a CX or similar 

[Sir0Tek]

I just checked your actual psu, the Silentio Supreme... Not too bad, it should be less noisy than described. How is your build? Does the psu get fresh air or does it have to use the already heated one from the inside of your pc?

[Krzeszny]

10 hours ago, Plouffe said:

I advise is to never get used PSU..

Thanks for advice but for ecological reasons I'm not changing my mind.

 

10 hours ago, Sir0Tek said:

How do you know your pc does require 500w, and is it peak or continuous?

The OuterVision calculator shows 506 W load wattage.

 

10 hours ago, Sir0Tek said:

I just don't know if yours is a silent one.

My PSU is somewhat quiet, but definitely not silent. 30 dbA is said to be the loudness of a high-quality computer fan. A review states that the PSU generates 32.9 dbA at minimum 800 RPM. The problem is (though I don't have a dbA meter) that it really isn't quiet. It might be a hardware problem.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Krzeszny
wrong dbA levels

[Sir0Tek]

2 minutes ago, Krzeszny said:

The OuterVision calculator shows 506 W load wattage.

 

SPC Supremo is quiet, perhaps very quiet, but definitely not silent. 30 dbA is said to be the loudness of a high-quality computer fan. A review states that the PSU generates 36,6 dbA at minimum 800 RPM at which is about 4 times 30 dbA. It is noticeable.

I was pointing at the Antec, not the SPC; some Antecs really aren't silent.

 

I just checked the OV-power calculator, it heavily overstates my power-usage at load, it gives me almost 150% as much wattage as what I'd actually need when I would put everything - and I mean really everything - at 100% load. So I guess your peak load will be at around 400w in reality.

 

[LukeSavenije]

3 hours ago, Krzeszny said:

The OuterVision calculator shows 506 W load wattage

mistake 1: using outervision

 

what country do you live in?

[Krzeszny]

53 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

mistake 1: using outervision

 

what country do you live in?

Poland.

 

Why is OuterVision so bad and which website is the best?

 

By the way, don't tell me to buy a new PSU.

[Krzeszny]

One eternity later, here's the rest of PSUs from 400 watts up:

 

6. Super Flower Golden Green SF-450P14XE (30 bucks) Tier B+

7. Antec TruePower New 650W (40) - with a modded fan - Dark Pro Wings

8. Be quiet Pure Power 10 400W (40) - B+

9. Seasonic Gold X-560 SS-560KM Active PFC F3 (50) - Tier A

 

That's it, finally there's no more to choose from. The Super Flower seems like the most economical choice (unless the seller tells me he won't ship it), then the BQ Pure 10, but it's not even Straight or Dark.

Yes, the Antec is old.

When it comes to more expensive ones WITH cables, there's only the V850 and X-560. I presume it's the Tier A model.

[Krzeszny]

10 hours ago, Sir0Tek said:

I just checked your actual psu, the Silentio Supreme... Not too bad, it should be less noisy than described. How is your build? Does the psu get fresh air or does it have to use the already heated one from the inside of your pc?

It's mounted upside down. I'm not saying it's noisy but I don't consider it very quiet. It's quiet but not silent/inaudible, while the rest of my PC is silent. Even my current HDD is quieter.

When it's perfectly silent in my home, I can hear it across the room - up to 6 metres / 20 feet.

 

Here's why my PC is silent:

• semi-active GPU cooling - normally off,
• a 140 mm CPU fan set to 30% speed,
• 140 mm and 120 mm fans running on low - positive pressure tho (all fans are Sigma-something and I might even exchange the 120 mms for 140 mms because they are not 100% silent but still WAY quieter than the PSU),
• a super-silent HDD - 5.4k WD Red 1 TB EFRX that I bought just for this build (I had a Blue EZEX before but it was way too loud even though it was just average)

The PSU is the only audible part of my PC, not counting the almost-inaudible 120 mms. What can I say... I like silence when I browse the internet. I'm going for top-notch silence

 

My case, the SilentiumPC Aquarius X70W has a bottom exhaust hole for PSU's, which is partially why the case doesn't muffle the PSU's fan. I might exchange it in the future because I don't like the case itself.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Krzeszny
After watching some reviews I figured out that my PSU isn't quiet

[LukeSavenije]

1 hour ago, Krzeszny said:

Why is OuterVision so bad and which website is the best?

because a random number generator would be more accurate with estimating wattage

 

i'd much rather use be quiet or msi, or better yet, reviewers sites to just check what it actually uses

1 hour ago, Krzeszny said:

By the way, don't tell me to buy a new PSU.

[Krzeszny]

1 minute ago, LukeSavenije said:

Thank you, Derpy.

 

So, are there no sites that estimate wattage well?

[LukeSavenije]

1 minute ago, Krzeszny said:

So, are there no sites that estimate wattage well?

they are all too high, the difference is how far they're off

 

i generally have a personal formula:

CPU+GPU+50= pulled power

and generally add like 50-100w to it, since good 350w psus aren't a thing

[Krzeszny]

8 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

they are all too high, the difference is how far they're off

 

i generally have a personal formula:

CPU+GPU+50= pulled power

and generally add like 50-100w to it, since good 350w psus aren't a thing

That would mean I need a 310 W PSU before adding 50-100 W... Have you seen this calculator? It seems reasonable when it comes to regular use wattage https://pc-builds.com/psu/

 

Max Wattage in regular use:
371 W

PSU Minimal Wattage (not recommended):
426.65 W

PSU Recommended Wattage:
493.43 W and more

This is with a GTX 970 but I will have to upgrade it eventually.

 

Anyway, the most economical choice, the Super Flower Golden Green is not quieter (possibly louder) than my SPC Supremo, so I'll have to skip it. There's also the Corsair CX450M and similar ones, which aren't that good.
 

I really only have 2 choices if I want a silent PSU: buy the Seasonic X-560 or replace the old fan in my SPC Supremo while listening to Trust Me, I'm an Engineer! and being careful not to touch the caps. Have I mentioned that I have no grounding in my house?

[LukeSavenije]

2 minutes ago, Krzeszny said:

replace the old fan in my SPC Supremo while listening to Trust Me, I'm an Engineer!

speaking about engineering... think about it for a second

 

what difference would a fan make if the circuit sending the signal doesn't change, making it as loud, if not louder?

 

outside of the motherboard numbers (70 W for mine) it's far from the worst i've seen

 

then again, to me buying a used psu is like trying to use a used condom, you have a chance of nothing going wrong, or everything going terribly

[Krzeszny]

8 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

what difference would a fan make if the circuit sending the signal doesn't change, making it as loud, if not louder?

A huge difference, actually. The fan uses "revolutionary"  ball bearings! It's signed as a Sigma fan, just like all of my case fans which are silent at low RPM (only), except this one isn't. It's manufactured by aobos, (120 mm) model AAL1225B1AN which needs 0.14 Amps and can't be found online (similar to AAL1225S1AN used in the non-modular version of this PSU, that needs 0.10 Amps). It hums at 750 RPM. For comparison, it's as loud as my case fans, also 120 mm, on FULL speed. But the case fans don't hum.

 

So there's that. Plus, according to overclockers.com, reviewed fans generate anywhere between 26 to 33 dbA at 1556 to 1865 RPM and at 0.04 to 0.22 Amps. Why up to 1865 RPM and not 1600? Because the two 26 dbA fans spin at 1847 and 1865 RPM and yet are quieter  

And there's this special snowflake fan, San Ace "Silent" L (L for Low) seen in this review that generates 21 dbA at 1479 RPM but I couldn't find it anywhere for sale. Not even a Silent M from the first review.

Maybe it was so good that the competition made them stop selling it like in the Philips' lightbulb conspiracy  Probably not.

 

The 100% RPM of the PSU's fan is 1600 according to the manufacturer, but 1200 according to this Polish review, so again, . The loudness is 33 dbA at minimum RPM and 39 dbA at maximum RPM from the same review.

39 db from the PSU fan is about 16 times as loud as 26 db from a very efficient fan from the reviews. So now you see that fans can be quieter or louder at the same RPM.

 

9 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

then again, to me buying a used psu is like trying to use a used condom, you have a chance of nothing going wrong, or everything going terribly

I know but then I could have the best possible PSU fan if I was careful. But... I have no idea what the CFM should be and how many amps the PSU can provide. I could mount a lower- or equal-amp fan OR hook a higher-amp fan to the motherboard if it was silent at max RPM. I really don't know...

[Sir0Tek]

10 hours ago, Krzeszny said:

Have I mentioned that I have no grounding in my house?

Sure you have grounding. But hopefully your electric wiring is isolated properly

 

Most psus (or all?) I have do use a Yate-Loon fan, even the most silent ones. Switching the fan can help you, indeed, and there are more hacks that can be used but I refuse to list any of it. I don't want to be responsible for someone trying it and having an electrical accident, or worse.

 

[Krzeszny]

11 hours ago, Sir0Tek said:

Sure you have grounding. But hopefully your electric wiring is isolated properly

There's no grounding OR earthing in the whole house, no GFCI, old mains and the electric wiring is as good as it was 60 years ago when the house was built. Only the electricity meter is new. At least the wiring is copper and there never were any problems with it, except for humming coming from any microphone I connect to my PC.

 

But I have a surge protection unit just to feel a little safer

 

Back to the topic, I'm ordering the Seasonic X-560 because it's 2 tiers higher than the Supremo and features a semi-passive fan.

[Krzeszny]

The seller still can't find time to ship the PSU. Good that I didn't pay beforehand.

 

Can someone tell me if I should maybe get an Enermax MODU 87+ 600 W instead of the Seasonic X-560?

 

Also, what should I check after receiving the package?