Australia's Internet

[ArcThanatos]

so here is a little story for some people to look at.
https://www.cnet.com/news/kellyville-green-box-represents-everything-wrong-with-australia-internet-speeds-nbn/
 

the slogan was "faster internet for all of Australia" but im pretty sure the fine print said "unless you are one of those 2nd-3rd rate citizens that is in rural areas, then you can just burn for 4 months straight.


here is the fun thing, at home we are paying $70 a month for 350Gb of data at 3.5Mbps. an when we go over we get hit with a 128kbps shaping. 
we pay more for data because... we live out of town. so apparently that means we dont get the unlimited data plans because..im guessing they have to stamp an mail the data manually...
more over we get slow speeds AND its constantly being interrupted Or slowed further, sometimes for hrs... sometimes for months on end.

this is what its like to live with rural australia internet (or at least in my area). 
we have had our house line zippy tied to a star-post for 3yrs now. 
we can not get a even remotely decent deal. satellite costs are bad. especially with the ridiculous on peak data caps

we arent going to get the NBN 3Kms out of town because we arent worth it. BUT we can get NBN satellite... which last i checked Telstra was going to charge $150 for 100GB. 

so i have a few things to put out there an ask.
In 2020 are Shaping speeds less than 1Mbps acceptable. 128kbps struggles to open a generic google search. 
is data caps of 60Gbs+140Gbs (60 between 7am-1am and 140 between 1am and 7am) somewhat predatory, (this is mostly designed to drive people to buy the more expensive package because they are using up 1/4 of their data when they are awake.) and Should customers have complete access to their purchase when ever they want ?
(to me this is like buying fuel for my bike\car but only being able to use 1/4 of it during typical wake time and having to buy bigger fuel tank if i want to drive\ride more during this time) 

anyways be happy to hear what other peoples internet is like. surely cant be worse than what we have here. 

[otto1]

I am in North Canberra, with Aussie Broadband. In our area, we've got fibre to the node; no problems reaching advertised speed of 50mb/s. We pay $80 per month for this plan with unlimited usage.

 

However, just an hour away at my parent's place in NSW, they get around 13 mb/s. I think they pay a similar price to us, but not 100% certain. The difference is pretty stark. Their connection is also far more patchy, with occasional drop outs.

 

Who's your provider?

@ArcThanatos

[dizmo]

You live in a massive country with a low population, if you choose to live out in the boons then sorry, you're SOL. Why should the company pay exponentially more to service you with a high speed connection when they'll likely never recoup the costs?

[ArcThanatos]

4 minutes ago, otto_k said:

I am in North Canberra, with Aussie Broadband. In our area, we've got fibre to the node; no problems reaching advertised speed of 50mb/s. We pay $80 per month for this plan with unlimited usage.

 

However, just an hour away at my parent's place in NSW, they get around 13 mb/s. I think they pay a similar price to us, but not 100% certain. The difference is pretty stark. Their connection is also far more patchy, with occasional drop outs.

 

Who's your provider?

@ArcThanatos

westnet. an worst part is, this is the best speeds an deal about, speeds are ... well ass, here. the data and prices are a joke. and more over when something goes wrong it can take 2 weeks to ... well 3yrs an counting for things to get fixed. 350Gbs and 3.5Mbps for $70 is a joke, specially when you look globally. 

[rares495]

You guys still have data caps? Oh wow...

[Norwegiantweaker]

data caps are a crime

[otto1]

15 minutes ago, dizmo said:

You live in a massive country with a low population, if you choose to live out in the boons then sorry, you're SOL. Why should the company pay exponentially more to service you with a high speed connection when they'll likely never recoup the costs?

Where are you from dizmo?

[ShureBob]

24 minutes ago, otto_k said:

I am in North Canberra, with Aussie Broadband. In our area, we've got fibre to the node; no problems reaching advertised speed of 50mb/s. We pay $80 per month for this plan with unlimited usage.

 

However, just an hour away at my parent's place in NSW, they get around 13 mb/s. I think they pay a similar price to us, but not 100% certain. The difference is pretty stark. Their connection is also far more patchy, with occasional drop outs.

 

Who's your provider?

@ArcThanatos

iinet gives you unlimited VDSL2 at 80mbs for $80 in cbr as well give it a look

[Arika]

22 minutes ago, dizmo said:

You live in a massive country with a low population, if you choose to live out in the boons then sorry, you're SOL. Why should the company pay exponentially more to service you with a high speed connection when they'll likely never recoup the costs?

except that the last house i was in which was in a very large residential area like 5 minutes from the centre of the city, speeds would rarely be above 10mbps down. and this is a city with over 100k population.

 

$110 AUD a month

10mbps down

LOLmbps up

500GB cap. 

 

and this was the best plan you could get with any provider.

[ArcThanatos]

3 minutes ago, dizmo said:

You live in a massive country with a low population, if you choose to live out in the boons then sorry, you're SOL. Why should the company pay exponentially more to service you with a high speed connection when they'll likely never recoup the costs?

ladies an gentlemen the typical argument from someone who doesn't know crap about rural areas. 

so here are some things id like to point out, liberal axed labors nbn plan and the whole "cheaper" thing was BS. it has cost more, and its worse. 
also if they Fixed the lines up out here they would be saving money because they wouldn't have to be constantly putting bandaids on 40+ yr old lines that are constantly failing.
the short term recoup wouldn't be be there. the long term they would make money because they wouldn't have to constantly repair the lines. ever week or 2 there is a telstra car thats constantly having to repair the hub out of town and then connection down the end of the road. an thats just 1 road constantly being repaired bi weekly (with several points of failure being fixed)
BUT then there is also Wifi or satellite. even satellite prices and data plans can change between rural an city. 

the whole "big country low pop" was the libtards argument and their solution is a waste of money when compared to what we should have got (labors actual functional plan) 
Also i didn't choose to live where i am, i grew up here. drought raped the country side (since about 2005), plus jobs dried up. you need money to move. an a job to go to. an neither of those things are about atm. 
even IF i moved. the internet in australia is shit across the board. there is a reason we are 68th in the world. kazakhstan has faster internet... 

[otto1]

6 minutes ago, Arika S said:

except that the last house i was in which was in a very large residential area like 5 minutes from the centre of the city, speeds would rarely be above 10mbps down. and this is a city with over 100k population.

 

$110 AUD a month

10mbps down

LOLmbps up

500GB cap. 

 

and this was the best plan you could get with any provider.

Those speeds are criminal for the price lol and that data cap.

[ArcThanatos]

8 minutes ago, ShureBob said:

iinet gives you unlimited VDSL2 at 80mbs for $80 in cbr as well give it a look

yeah i been looking for months. and honestly there aint much out here. so far what i have is the best offer... the only one with out a data cap.

 

22 minutes ago, rares495 said:

You guys still have data caps? Oh wow...

yeah from 7am-1am onpeak times. the data caps here are predatory as hell

[mr moose]

31 minutes ago, ArcThanatos said:

so here is a little story for some people to look at.
https://www.cnet.com/news/kellyville-green-box-represents-everything-wrong-with-australia-internet-speeds-nbn/
 

the slogan was "faster internet for all of Australia" but im pretty sure the fine print said "unless you are one of those 2nd-3rd rate citizens that is in rural areas, then you can just burn for 4 months straight.

 

 

here is the fun thing, at home we are paying $70 a month for 350Gb of data at 3.5Mbps. an when we go over we get hit with a 128kbps shaping. 

If you are on the NBN then choose a different RSP,  Satelite plans are $65 with iinet. Internopde will beat that with fixed wirless.  Not sure what tech you are on.

 

31 minutes ago, ArcThanatos said:

we pay more for data because... we live out of town. so apparently that means we dont get the unlimited data plans because..im guessing they have to stamp an mail the data manually...
more over we get slow speeds AND its constantly being interrupted Or slowed further, sometimes for hrs... sometimes for months on end.

 

this is what its like to live with rural australia internet (or at least in my area). 
we have had our house line zippy tied to a star-post for 3yrs now. 
we can not get a even remotely decent deal. satellite costs are bad. especially with the ridiculous on peak data caps

we arent going to get the NBN 3Kms out of town because we arent worth it. BUT we can get NBN satellite... which last i checked Telstra was going to charge $150 for 100GB. 

 

As I said before check out iinet for satelite. 

31 minutes ago, ArcThanatos said:

so i have a few things to put out there an ask.
In 2020 are Shaping speeds less than 1Mbps acceptable. 128kbps struggles to open a generic google search. 
is data caps of 60Gbs+140Gbs (60 between 7am-1am and 140 between 1am and 7am) somewhat predatory, (this is mostly designed to drive people to buy the more expensive package because they are using up 1/4 of their data when they are awake.) and Should customers have complete access to their purchase when ever they want ?
(to me this is like buying fuel for my bike\car but only being able to use 1/4 of it during typical wake time and having to buy bigger fuel tank if i want to drive\ride more during this time) 

anyways be happy to hear what other peoples internet is like. surely cant be worse than what we have here. 

 

The average NBN speed at the moment is 37Mb/s, which means for every Aussie who gets faster than than that there is one getting slower.  Built up areas are generally about 20Mb/s and new areas are closer to the full 100Mb/s.  If I remember right, the percentage of rural Australians getting sub 5Mb/s (or even sub 10Mb/s is  single digit number. Which means as hard as the task is,  things are improving. 

 

 

Basically you get fixed wireless and satellite in the country because 15 people aren't going to pay the 30 odd thousand dollars each to get fibre or even a node run 10K out of town.   

[otto1]

7 minutes ago, ArcThanatos said:

ladies an gentlemen the typical argument from someone who doesn't know crap about rural areas. 

so here are some things id like to point out, liberal axed labors nbn plan and the whole "cheaper" thing was BS. it has cost more, and its worse. 
also if they Fixed the lines up out here they would be saving money because they wouldn't have to be constantly putting bandaids on 40+ yr old lines that are constantly failing.
the short term recoup wouldn't be be there. the long term they would make money because they wouldn't have to constantly repair the lines. ever week or 2 there is a telstra car thats constantly having to repair the hub out of town and then connection down the end of the road. an thats just 1 road constantly being repaired bi weekly (with several points of failure being fixed)
BUT then there is also Wifi or satellite. even satellite prices and data plans can change between rural an city. 

the whole "big country low pop" was the libtards argument and their solution is a waste of money when compared to what we should have got (labors actual functional plan) 
Also i didn't choose to live where i am, i grew up here. drought raped the country side (since about 2005), plus jobs dried up. you need money to move. an a job to go to. an neither of those things are about atm. 
even IF i moved. the internet in australia is shit across the board. there is a reason we are 68th in the world. kazakhstan has faster internet... 

You're absolutely right. As I mentioned before, my parents' place has far inferior service. They are just an hour's drive away from our nation's capital and they'll be getting skymuster (not even NBN). Service for rural and regional areas in this country is a joke. You just have to step outside the metropolitan centres to realise this.

[TechyBen]

1 hour ago, ArcThanatos said:

so here is a little story for some people to look at.
https://www.cnet.com/news/kellyville-green-box-represents-everything-wrong-with-australia-internet-speeds-nbn/
 

the slogan was "faster internet for all of Australia" but im pretty sure the fine print said "unless you are one of those 2nd-3rd rate citizens that is in rural areas, then you can just burn for 4 months straight.


here is the fun thing, at home we are paying $70 a month for 350Gb of data at 3.5Mbps. an when we go over we get hit with a 128kbps shaping. 
we pay more for data because... we live out of town. so apparently that means we dont get the unlimited data plans because..im guessing they have to stamp an mail the data manually...
more over we get slow speeds AND its constantly being interrupted Or slowed further, sometimes for hrs... sometimes for months on end.

this is what its like to live with rural australia internet (or at least in my area). 
we have had our house line zippy tied to a star-post for 3yrs now. 
we can not get a even remotely decent deal. satellite costs are bad. especially with the ridiculous on peak data caps

Spoiler

we arent going to get the NBN 3Kms out of town because we arent worth it. BUT we can get NBN satellite... which last i checked Telstra was going to charge $150 for 100GB. 

so i have a few things to put out there an ask.
In 2020 are Shaping speeds less than 1Mbps acceptable. 128kbps struggles to open a generic google search. 
is data caps of 60Gbs+140Gbs (60 between 7am-1am and 140 between 1am and 7am) somewhat predatory, (this is mostly designed to drive people to buy the more expensive package because they are using up 1/4 of their data when they are awake.) and Should customers have complete access to their purchase when ever they want ?
(to me this is like buying fuel for my bike\car but only being able to use 1/4 of it during typical wake time and having to buy bigger fuel tank if i want to drive\ride more during this time) 

anyways be happy to hear what other peoples internet is like. surely cant be worse than what we have here. 

 

Technically, the most likely reason you are limited on bandwidth/download capped *and* get throttled, and get low speeds during peak time... is because there are more people wanting internet than the "pipe" can provide, not because they want the city to pay more/hate countryside more. However, yes, they don't want to make a large investment for a low profit return, vs the city which is low investment with a high return. That's still not fare, but for a slightly different reason.

 

[Edit]

PS, the UK has got better. I'm in a little town. Went from 512mbps to full (local wire) to the fibre node/cabinet (not fiber to the properties yet much in the UK) at up to 100mbps. Though I only pay for the 40 down / 10 up mbps package. It is though unlimited, and only £25 per month IIRC. But I've decided to go 4/5g mobile internet instead as it's also unlimited... and... and... £18 per month currently. That's with tethering! (I've tested it, and it's really good for mobile internet, and getting around 80-100mbps down, 10 up and average ping/consistency at 30-60ms).

 

Was a long time getting "broadband" ISDN from the 1-6mbps to the 8-20mbps package back in the day. But overall for 12 years, the upgrades have been fantastic. Difference being though, I am *in* a town. If I was on the outskirts/villages/hamlets or whatever, it might still be on ISDN 6mbps or even less. Though IIRC most properties in the uk are "broadband" (ISDN2+) or better now, but will suffer if on long wire/telegraph pole runs.

 

PS, what Mr Moose said reminds me, around 10 years ago, a few villages in the UK did stump up the £30-60k for a new line to be laid (I remember the fibre lines being dug/blown/piped around here around 5 years ago) in some small villages. Others went for their own WiMax/1 mile range wifi solutions. There was even a wifi option in my town for a while that had some sort of coverage, but was branded "business wifi" or some such, so I could only ever detect the ssd name, never find out what company/provider would supply it (as not consumer facing ).

[mr moose]

23 minutes ago, ArcThanatos said:

ladies an gentlemen the typical argument from someone who doesn't know crap about rural areas. 

so here are some things id like to point out, liberal axed labors nbn plan and the whole "cheaper" thing was BS. it has cost more, and its worse. 

Labors plan was not properly researched, There was no feasibility study, it was under funded from the get go and and the contractors ended up in more shit than a weribee duck.  Liberals plan was to just get the thing to stage where it at least worked without contractors suing the arse of the government and the whole project collapsing in a heap.  

 

Quote

also if they Fixed the lines up out here they would be saving money because they wouldn't have to be constantly putting bandaids on 40+ yr old lines that are constantly failing.

They can't fix the lines, fixing the lines equals relaying them and putting in new pits.  The reason they had to ditch FTTP was because they couldn't afford it, so relaying all that copper would have been just as bad.   We are talking about infrastructure so old they don;t even know how many of the pits are asbestos, let alone warning residents when remediating them.   There is an awful lot of sensationalism in the news, some dickhead from the US tweeted about uploading a video on Aussie wifi supposedly being really bad,  I think he meant mobile network not wifi but excusing that ignorance, if he was in Melbourne then he should have had decent mobile coverage so he probably paid shit money for a vodafone plan and tried to upload in peak our.  

 

 

 

 

Quote

the short term recoup wouldn't be be there. the long term they would make money because they wouldn't have to constantly repair the lines. ever week or 2 there is a telstra car thats constantly having to repair the hub out of town and then connection down the end of the road. an thats just 1 road constantly being repaired bi weekly (with several points of failure being fixed)
BUT then there is also Wifi or satellite. even satellite prices and data plans can change between rural an city. 

the whole "big country low pop" was the libtards argument and their solution is a waste of money when compared to what we should have got (labors actual functional plan) 
Also i didn't choose to live where i am, i grew up here. drought raped the country side (since about 2005), plus jobs dried up. you need money to move. an a job to go to. an neither of those things are about atm. 
even IF i moved. the internet in australia is shit across the board. there is a reason we are 68th in the world. kazakhstan has faster internet... 

 

 

The issue is basically the whole network is big, really big and the only place you have enough customers in one area to pay for it are the big cities.  Rural is always going to be shit, it's shit in the US, it's shit everywhere.    Just because we want 100Mb/s everywhere doesn't mean it is feasible to provide to everywhere.

 

I have a whole heap of links to NBN documents, articles on the original plan and works,  Financial statements on feasibility somewhere if you want them.  

 

 

Also you can't compare Australia to countries like Kazakhstan,  ookla only test connections where they exist and people do the speed test.  No one in kazakhstan runs a speed test from their 36K connection and the places that do have internet have brand new infrastructure.  People need to remember that sth korea. sweden, half of Africa are in a very different situation.

 

Here is an alpha/beta break down of why you can;t use the ookla data to compare the NBN to other countries. 

https://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco2/2019/documents/media-centre/AlphaBeta-speed-check-report.pdf

[ArcThanatos]

@mr moose liberals plan was trash beyond belief. an its implementation is god awful. for 6 months after the blow in contractors put in the lines in the most half assed effort ever the majority of the town had speeds of 200Kbps. constant drop outs. it took ages for telstra to be assed to send someone out to fix the damn lines. 
its not that they hate the rural towns, its that they couldn't be fucked helping them. they dont have to put in new lines. WiFi was developed in australia. at CSIRO. you think we might look to it for a alternative. rather than having to dig all the lines up. 

labors plan from accounts i have heard WAS better. and its intent was a direct upgrade. 
liberals was\is a bandaid. a very very expensive bandaid. 
doesn't matter what way you swing it. Aus internet is crap. nbn is a joke. it works for some people. but i have heard just as many people have issues being on it. an those who arent on it get negatively affected by it when ever they try an fix it. 

but back to the data... Why would people out of town be limited to lower data rates then in town. 1 town node (pre nbn)  would have more data go thru it then the entire road im on could put thru ours. we just get lower speeds. its not like they have to mail us our data (although it be just as fast). so the reasoning is more predatory. because everytime you talk to them about speeds (whether they are being affected by them working on the lines or what ever) it always the same line "oh sir we have a great deal on our satellite connection its faster an you get X GBs data (notably less then what im on) for $80 a month". an thats a whole new predatory game of theirs. 
 

[mr moose]

19 minutes ago, ArcThanatos said:

@mr moose liberals plan was trash beyond belief. an its implementation is god awful. for 6 months after the blow in contractors put in the lines in the most half assed effort ever the majority of the town had speeds of 200Kbps. constant drop outs. it took ages for telstra to be assed to send someone out to fix the damn lines. 
its not that they hate the rural towns, its that they couldn't be fucked helping them. they dont have to put in new lines. WiFi was developed in australia. at CSIRO. you think we might look to it for a alternative. rather than having to dig all the lines up. 

labors plan from accounts i have heard WAS better. and its intent was a direct upgrade. 
liberals was\is a bandaid. a very very expensive bandaid. 
doesn't matter what way you swing it. Aus internet is crap. nbn is a joke. it works for some people. but i have heard just as many people have issues being on it. an those who arent on it get negatively affected by it when ever they try an fix it. 

but back to the data... Why would people out of town be limited to lower data rates then in town. 1 town node (pre nbn)  would have more data go thru it then the entire road im on could put thru ours. we just get lower speeds. its not like they have to mail us our data (although it be just as fast). so the reasoning is more predatory. because everytime you talk to them about speeds (whether they are being affected by them working on the lines or what ever) it always the same line "oh sir we have a great deal on our satellite connection its faster an you get X GBs data (notably less then what im on) for $80 a month". an thats a whole new predatory game of theirs. 
 

Labors plan didn't even include a feasibility study, before Liberals even came into power there wasn't enough money to pay the contractors (some of whom started ripping up pipes because they didn't get paid). The whole thing was a mess.  The whole NBN from start to now has been a political wasteland of BS. 

 

https://delimiter.com.au/2013/06/03/pay-protest-nbn-contractor-rips-out-new-pipes/

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-31/nbn-cost-revised-up-to-51-billion-dollars/10187108

 

It doesn't matter what the liberals did, the original plan was never going to come in at the claimed cost because they never new what it would cost and just made up figures to sell it for the election.