pointless overkill upgrade dilemma

[Kalm_Traveler]

Hey guys, short version is my 7960x rig has been hard freezing up randomly anywhere between 1 minute after booting into Windows upwards of about 13 hours of heavy gaming + VMs running all day and it seems to be related to having the RAM running at its rated XMP 3200mhz profile (which has been totally fine for ~ 2 years). About a month ago I updated the BIOS and about the same time also redid the liquid metal under the IHS intending to finally really dial in the max daily overclock, but since doing that it's had this freezing going on.

 

After a month of troubleshooting, I'm sick of it freezing on me and just want the thing to work so my first thought was to go the 'budget' route of a 10980xe, Asus Rampage VI Extreme Omega and some GSkill 3600 CL16 RAM but I can't find that CPU anywhere and on NowInStock the last time it was restocked was just after Christmas.

 

That led me to look again at team red since Zen 2 seems to be just destroying Intel these days and really this rig's whole point of existing is just to be ridiculous overkill raw power so a 3970x seems appropriate. 

 

However, since I do game on this thing somewhat (I'd say 25% of its use time is gaming - mainly just on the handful of games that work with SLI now since I have a dedicated gaming rig again so this thing only out-FPS-s in SLI supported games) I'm concerned that the Threadripper would maybe be obviously worse in that aspect simply due to much lower clock speeds. 

 

Since this 7960x (16c/32t) does 4.7ghz all core just fine, but I'm not seeing anyone with a TR 3970x getting more than about 4.2ghz all core max it's giving me slight pause.

 

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Now, minding that I don't "need" this thing to be 100% stable for any particular reason and can absolutely do my homework or whatever else on another machine... cost aside, should I just get the new x299 motherboard + RAM and wait for a 10980xe to come in stock somewhere, or go for the Threadripper? I'm afraid because I've never had an AMD rig, but as long as it doesn't end up seeming worse in any way I'm willing to give them a chance, and 32c/64t sounds amazing.

 

This is on a 3840 x 1600 screen btw, so I know that even for games the CPU won't be as much of a factor for fps... just trying to figure out if I should wait for the Intel chip some unknown amount of time, or go for AMD since I can get it and be stable again on Friday if I order tonight.

 

What would you guys suggest? (again cost is not really a concern here between the two options, I just want overkill HEDT that won't randomly freeze on me, ideally improving from the 7960x overall).

[emosun]

5 minutes ago, Kalm_Traveler1 said:

again cost is not really a concern here

In that case don't buy consumer hardware and buy server hardware. There are some really cool blade servers with 8 way cpu's that will outperform anything in the consumer market and are designed to be quite fast for at least a decade of workload.

 

[Kalm_Traveler]

Just now, emosun said:

In that case don't buy consumer hardware and buy server hardware. There are some really cool blade servers with 8 way cpu's that will outperform anything in the consumer market and are designed to be quite fast for at least a decade of workload.

 

ahh I'm so sorry, I meant the cost between a 10980xe / Asus Rampage VI Extreme Omega and the Threadripper 3970x / Asus Zenith II Extreme. I have some money, but I'm not yet made of it.

[Jurrunio]

3990x: am I a joke to you (as much as it's unavailable)

 

but for gaming Cascade Lake X (and older Intel HEDT platforms) suffer with their mesh bus compared to Coffee Lake's ring bus, so imo might as well take a bigger hit and leave gaming for Coffee.

[Samfisher]

3 minutes ago, emosun said:

In that case don't buy consumer hardware and buy server hardware. There are some really cool blade servers with 8 way cpu's that will outperform anything in the consumer market and are designed to be quite fast for at least a decade of workload.

 

Not at gaming it won't, and since clockspeed is one of the major concerns OP has with the 3970x, server hardware will be even lower clocked.

[emosun]

2 minutes ago, Samfisher said:

Not at gaming it won't, and since clockspeed is one of the major concerns OP has with the 3970x, server hardware will be even lower clocked.

right thats why they don't make 12 core cpus today right?........ games from 2008 can't work on them.... so naturally nobody will ever need 12 cores

[Samfisher]

3 minutes ago, emosun said:

right thats why they don't make 12 core cpus today right?........ games from 2008 can't work on them.... so naturally nobody will ever need 12 cores

Hmm?  The point is clockspeed still matters a lot in games, and the OP has already expressed his doubts on going AMD solely on that premise.  Server hardware ain't gonna be higher clocked than Workstation CPUs.

[Kalm_Traveler]

4 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

3990x: am I a joke to you (as much as it's unavailable)

 

but for gaming Cascade Lake X (and older Intel HEDT platforms) suffer with their mesh bus compared to Coffee Lake's ring bus, so imo might as well take a bigger hit and leave gaming for Coffee.

Haha yeah I think even that 3990x when it is out will be outside my comfort zone, and most likely even slower clocked with so many cores. As I mentioned, I like having the HEDT rig for SLI gaming because it really does outdo the 9900ks + 2080 Ti on anything that works with SLI (Jedi Fallen Order for example) even with a larger screen. I moved the 3440 x 1440 100hz Asus monitor to that new gaming rig but it can't hold 100 fps consistently, whereas with the two Titans (albeit slightly higher res screen) the HEDT rig is usually able to keep fps around the 144fps mark to match what I'm running this screen at (it'll do 175hz but you have to drop out of HDR support).

Honestly if I could find a 10980xe I'd just grab it now because I know it would be directly an improvement, although probably not by a lot. The holdup here is that I'm sick of this thing freezing on me for the past month and am ready to consider AMD just to have it stable again so I'm not constantly computing in fear waiting for the sudden loud infinite sound blitz.

[emosun]

Just now, Samfisher said:

The point is clockspeed still matters a lot in games

oh in that case a pentium 4 3ghz should be best then. seeing as how clockspeed is all that matters no need for having more than one cpu.

Sorry but you're bringing up the oldest known joke in the pc gaming world. That computers literally are only adding cores at this point to increase the downfall of moores law and yet somehow you think all video games only use a single core at any point like it's 2004.

Sure go for it. Spend 3k now on whats currently fast for home users and see how fast it is in a few years. you have my blessing

[Kalm_Traveler]

8 minutes ago, Samfisher said:

Hmm?  The point is clockspeed still matters a lot in games, and the OP has already expressed his doubts on going AMD solely on that premise.  Server hardware ain't gonna be higher clocked than Workstation CPUs.

yes exactly... while I admit the machine is supposed to be pointless overkill... I still use it for everything pretty much every day, so it needs to be 'good enough' at whatever task be it some VMs for school labs or just side projects, homework / browsing / content streaming, or gaming.

 

Completely first world problem I understand... just having trouble deciding which route to go about to perma-fix it.

 

*EDIT*

I should add that I'm sure the problem is either the memory controller on the 7960x is weak and dying on me or there's something wrong with the RAM suddenly but FWIW I tried booting this thing with the 4 sticks of 4000mhz RAM I got for the gaming rig and it won't even POST with 4000mhz RAM which only further makes me think it's the IMC on the CPU. 

Super odd that this freezing started basically right when I redid the liquid metal and updated the BIOS but CPU temps are great, and I tried reverting to an older BIOS again to no change. All the exact same settings I've been running for the last ~ 2 ish years.

[Samfisher]

1 minute ago, Kalm_Traveler1 said:

yes exactly... while I admit the machine is supposed to be pointless overkill... I still use it for everything pretty much every day, so it needs to be 'good enough' at whatever task be it some VMs for school labs or just side projects, homework / browsing / content streaming, or gaming.

 

Completely first world problem I understand... just having trouble deciding which route to go about to perma-fix it.

All of the solutions you've presented yourself are more than good enough for the task   And yes although Ryzen is generally lower clocked than Intel parts, AMD's IPC has improved to the point where even at lower clocks they compete pretty closely in most games.  When it comes to cores well AMD is right up there too, not to mention that if you plan to keep this rig for at least a decent amount of time, PCIE4 on AMD might be what tips things over in their favour.

[Samfisher]

7 minutes ago, emosun said:

oh in that case a pentium 4 3ghz should be best then. seeing as how clockspeed is all that matters no need for having more than one cpu.

Sorry but you're bringing up the oldest known joke in the pc gaming world. That computers literally are only adding cores at this point to increase the downfall of moores law and yet somehow you think all video games only use a single core at any point like it's 2004.

Sure go for it. Spend 3k now on whats currently fast for home users and see how fast it is in a few years. you have my blessing

What?  Of course you're comparing clock speeds with current gen IPC.  What are you even on about.  More cores does not mean clock speeds don't matter /facepalm

[Kalm_Traveler]

2 minutes ago, Samfisher said:

All of the solutions you've presented yourself are more than good enough for the task   And yes although Ryzen is generally lower clocked than Intel parts, AMD's IPC has improved to the point where even at lower clocks they compete pretty closely in most games.  When it comes to cores well AMD is right up there too, not to mention that if you plan to keep this rig for at least a decent amount of time, PCIE4 on AMD might be what tips things over in their favour.

very good point - I actually didn't want to upgrade this thing at all for at least another 2 years but since this random freezing nonsense won't go away I'm willing to be broke again for a few months on better / newer hardware.

Hmm... you're not helping me choose  

[emosun]

Just now, Samfisher said:

More cores does not mean clock speeds don't matter /facepalm

and clock speed doesn't mean core count doesn't matter.

if the op wants the computer to be slow after only a few years use..... then sure buy a consumer setup. I sure wish I could pretend life doesn't exist past 2 years into the future. I wouldn't ever have to plan anything

[Kalm_Traveler]

Just now, emosun said:

and clock speed doesn't mean core count doesn't matter.

if the op wants the computer to be slow after only a few years use..... then sure buy a consumer setup. I sure wish I could pretend life doesn't exist past 2 years into the future. I wouldn't ever have to plan anything

FWIW friend, I don't disagree with you that cores will help keep it usable longer. No doubt they will since we can't seem to reliably push silicon beyond about 5ghz and even that takes the very best we can produce.

 

That all being said, since about 25% of this rigs use is games... and currently most still only have maybe 2-6 threads at most, clock speed is still a concern over cores. 

The main dilemma I'm running into is not knowing how much longer I'd need to wait to get a 10980xe (which will definitely be at least slightly better in every way), VS I can have the 3970x in and...ripping...threads... by Friday (basically 2 days out at this point).

 

Since this machine games on a relatively high-ish resolution screen I'm not sure if the dip from 4.7ghz of Skylake-X IPC to 4.2ghz of Zen 2 cores will matter, but that's kind of what I'm asking here - what do you guys think?

[emosun]

1 minute ago, Kalm_Traveler1 said:

25% of this rigs use is games... and currently most still only have maybe 2-6 threads at most

well just don't play any news games when they come out in the future and you'll be fine then

[Jurrunio]

2 hours ago, Kalm_Traveler1 said:

As I mentioned, I like having the HEDT rig for SLI gaming because it really does outdo the 9900ks + 2080 Ti on anything that works with SLI (Jedi Fallen Order for example) even with a larger screen.

Does SLI really need more than PCie 3.0 x8?

[Kalm_Traveler]

29 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

Does SLI really need more than PCie 3.0 x8?

I don't think 2 cards with 3.0 x8 will give measurably different performance compared to them both having full x16 connection to the CPU, but that's partly because there's a lot of bandwidth going on over the NVLink or SLI bridge. 

Something tells me you're going to suggest moving my Titans into the 9900ks rig instead of its Kingpin card
 

I could do that, but then its performance for 'most games' would go down. i've run a few things basically side by side on the same monitor and that combo really does net a pretty sizeable advantage over the 7960x @ 4.7ghz and effectively 1 of these power-modded Titans. It's embarrassing, honestly.


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After scouring Threadripper reviews for the last few hours (and 5 minutes ago getting another nice shock of sound-blitzing system freezing) I think it makes the most sense to wait a few weeks for a 10980xe. I can get the motherboard and some faster RAM now and grab the next cpu that pops up (most of the shops seem to think they'll be getting restocked around end of this month or first week in February).

 

Thanks again for the input and consideration points all of you.