NAS Build with SSD Cache - Advice Needed

[hkeatmy]

Hey peeps, I have selected the following parts for my entry level NAS build:

 

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Rhn9Jb

CPU: AMD Athlon II X4 620 2.6 GHz Quad-Core OEM/Tray Processor  ($54.49 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3 ATX AM3 Motherboard 
Memory: Kingston 2 GB (1 x 2 GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($12.99 @ Amazon) 
Memory: Kingston 2 GB (1 x 2 GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($12.99 @ Amazon) 
Memory: Kingston 2 GB (1 x 2 GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($12.99 @ Amazon) 
Memory: Kingston 2 GB (1 x 2 GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($12.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Western Digital Green  120 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($32.80 @ OutletPC) 
Storage: Western Digital Green  120 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($32.80 @ OutletPC) 
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($64.89 @ OutletPC) 
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($64.89 @ OutletPC) 
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($64.89 @ OutletPC) 
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($64.89 @ OutletPC) 
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($64.89 @ OutletPC) 
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($64.89 @ OutletPC) 
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 660 2 GB Video Card 
Case: Cooler Master HAF 912 New ATX Mid Tower Case  ($69.98 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: Corsair VS 450 W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply  ($49.99 @ Amazon) 
Total: $681.36
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-10-28 07:23 EDT-0400

 

Some of you might question me on the mobo/cpu/gpu choice, but I got my mobo + ram + cpu + gpu for USD40 from a garage sale near me. 

 

I have mainly three questions regarding my build:

 

1. Are there any major issues in my choice of hardware as of now?

 

2. Is SSD caching for NAS a good idea?

 

3. Should I be using RAID 5, 6, ZFS or something else? (I don't have extremely crucial files and folders to store, but the thought that a failure will cause me to lose everything makes me uncomfortable.)

 

As obvious as it is, I am a total newbie in this topic and thanks for the help!!!!

 

[leadeater]

5 minutes ago, hkeatmy said:

Some of you might question me on the mobo/cpu/gpu choice, but I got my mobo + ram + cpu + gpu for USD40 from a garage sale near me. 

Pretty good for $40.

 

2 minutes ago, hkeatmy said:

2. Is SSD caching for NAS a good idea?

Only if you actually need it, multiple HDDs perform very well and in a lot of cases a single HDD will saturate a 1Gbps network connection. Multiple HDDs make more different kinds of workloads saturate 1Gbps and more consistent performance overall. SSDs and caching is generally only needed when VM hosting or on the very extreme end of NAS/file server performance which is actually rather rare.

 

6 minutes ago, hkeatmy said:

3. Should I be using RAID 5, 6, ZFS or something else? (I don't have extremely crucial files and folders to store, but the thought that a failure will cause me to lose everything makes me uncomfortable.)

Up to you really, RAIDZ1 will do fine as long as you keep on top of hardware health and replacements. It's likely more going to come down to why and what you will be using for NAS for.

 

Personally I'd take out the 2 SSDs, use a USB for FreeNAS install and save the money or spend it in other areas like more HDDs (if you can) or using larger HDDs.

[hkeatmy]

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Pretty good for $40.

 

That's what made me so motivated to make my own NAS!

 

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Only if you actually need it, multiple HDDs perform very well and in a lot of cases a single HDD will saturate a 1Gbps network connection. Multiple HDDs make more different kinds of workloads saturate 1Gbps and more consistent performance overall. SSDs and caching is generally only needed when VM hosting or on the very extreme end of NAS/file server performance which is actually rather rare.

I see, considering the prices of 10Gbps routers and cabling and the limited speeds of my local internet provider, I think future proofing for 10Gbps is unnecessary as well. I'll take the advice man.

 

7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Up to you really, RAIDZ1 will do fine as long as you keep on top of hardware health and replacements. It's likely more going to come down to why and what you will be using for NAS for.

 

Personally I'd take out the 2 SSDs, use a USB for FreeNAS install and save the money or spend it in other areas like more HDDs (if you can) or using larger HDDs.

I would still go for 2tb drives I guess, because I don't see myself needing such a huge capacity in the near future and adding 2tb drives is perfectly possible in this case. However, one more question bro, is that if I'm running FreeNAS, does it mean my whole rig will be just for running the NAS and unable to be multitasking? Because I was wondering if I could give it a better job than just lying around waiting to read and write files, and maybe like as a computer for streaming videos online etc. I'm unfamiliar with the FreeNAS environment. Thanks and cheers!

[hkeatmy]

11 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Pretty good for $40.

 

Only if you actually need it, multiple HDDs perform very well and in a lot of cases a single HDD will saturate a 1Gbps network connection. Multiple HDDs make more different kinds of workloads saturate 1Gbps and more consistent performance overall. SSDs and caching is generally only needed when VM hosting or on the very extreme end of NAS/file server performance which is actually rather rare.

 

Up to you really, RAIDZ1 will do fine as long as you keep on top of hardware health and replacements. It's likely more going to come down to why and what you will be using for NAS for.

 

Personally I'd take out the 2 SSDs, use a USB for FreeNAS install and save the money or spend it in other areas like more HDDs (if you can) or using larger HDDs.

I've seen people buy one extra hard disk and leave it out of the RAID array to backup the most important files in case of the array failure, is that a wise choice?

[UrbanFreestyle]

Hi there, Just wanted to pop in and have a little input on this.

 

I recently built a  FreeNAS machine for holding my backups on, I don't want to state the obvious as you may already be aware of the below information so please don't take offence if you already know. Below are my system specs for the NAS:

Spoiler

Asus H81-i PLUS
Intel i5 4590T
Noctua NH-L9i
2x 8gb 2133 Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR3
1x 256 SSD in external USB3 enclosure (to be changed for NVME on PCIE card)
4x 3TB Wd Red HDD
3D-Printed HDD Brackets
EVGA Supernova 1000w G3
Kolink Satellite Plus Case

 

There is a lot of chat on the FreeNAS forums about using ECC RAM and anything less is rubbish. Ignore that advice as it only really comes into play if there is power outage mid write that could cause your data to become corrupt.

 

The RAID is not a backup.  Regardless of stripe, mirror or array it still relies on acting fast to ensure data availability. Mine is the 3rd copy of various backups so if my raid fails or anything happens to that box i still have 2 other copies of my data to use.

 

SSD Cache would be of little use in this usecase. Mine is sitting on a gbe network and it can happily saturate and sustain rates of approx 112-115MB/s thus arround 0.88Gb/s (allowing for backup software and OS overheads)

 

I am using RAID Z1, This will allow a single drive faliure and i have a spare sat in my cupboard ready to be initialised and added to the array should one fail. I was running Scary RAID for a while but decided the additional capacity was not worth the risk.

 

There are a lot of plugins available to add extra features and you can run VMs on FreeNAS however i have not delved into those and heard some of the plugins can be a bit flakey.

 

Hope this helps, Feel free to @ me with any questions.

[hkeatmy]

2 minutes ago, UrbanFreestyle said:

Hi there, Just wanted to pop in and have a little input on this.

 

I recently built a  FreeNAS machine for holding my backups on, I don't want to state the obvious as you may already be aware of the below information so please don't take offence if you already know. Below are my system specs for the NAS:

  Reveal hidden contents

Asus H81-i PLUS
Intel i5 4590T
Noctua NH-L9i
2x 8gb 2133 Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR3
1x 256 SSD in external USB3 enclosure (to be changed for NVME on PCIE card)
4x 3TB Wd Red HDD
3D-Printed HDD Brackets
EVGA Supernova 1000w G3
Kolink Satellite Plus Case

 

There is a lot of chat on the FreeNAS forums about using ECC RAM and anything less is rubbish. Ignore that advice as it only really comes into play if there is power outage mid write that could cause your data to become corrupt.

 

The RAID is not a backup.  Regardless of stripe, mirror or array it still relies on acting fast to ensure data availability. Mine is the 3rd copy of various backups so if my raid fails or anything happens to that box i still have 2 other copies of my data to use.

 

SSD Cache would be of little use in this usecase. Mine is sitting on a gbe network and it can happily saturate and sustain rates of approx 112-115MB/s thus arround 0.88Gb/s (allowing for backup software and OS overheads)

 

I am using RAID Z1, This will allow a single drive faliure and i have a spare sat in my cupboard ready to be initialised and added to the array should one fail. I was running Scary RAID for a while but decided the additional capacity was not worth the risk.

 

There are a lot of plugins available to add extra features and you can run VMs on FreeNAS however i have not delved into those and heard some of the plugins can be a bit flakey.

 

Hope this helps, Feel free to @ me with any questions.

@UrbanFreestyle Thanks so much for the input man. As I have a 1400VA APC UPS that I got for a mere 6$ from a guy that wanted to sell off his many units, I don't think I have to worry about power outages to corrupt my data. Guess I'll use a separate hard disk connected to the NAS for backups then. But are you using anyway to sync the data from your array to the backup hard disc??

[UrbanFreestyle]

@hkeatmy

The UPS sounds great! just make sure of the battery in it. I have had a few from my office that were being thrown out however the battery voltage was falling very quickly as the battery was tired.

 

I would suggest running one backup schedule from PC to USB3 drive and a seperate one to NAS.

 

I use EasUS to perform my backups and have several jobs to run at different times.

[hkeatmy]

15 minutes ago, UrbanFreestyle said:

@hkeatmy

The UPS sounds great! just make sure of the battery in it. I have had a few from my office that were being thrown out however the battery voltage was falling very quickly as the battery was tired.

 

I would suggest running one backup schedule from PC to USB3 drive and a seperate one to NAS.

 

I use EasUS to perform my backups and have several jobs to run at different times.

Alright I'll study more on how to set it up bro. I appreciate it a lot. Thanks and have a great day ahead!

 

[UrbanFreestyle]

Just now, hkeatmy said:

Alright I'll study more on how to set it up bro. I appreciate it a lot. Thanks and have a great day ahead!

 

No problem!

Happy to help out!. I'm hoping to find a plugin that will allow clone to USB but not something i have found available

[hkeatmy]

1 hour ago, hkeatmy said:

I would still go for 2tb drives I guess, because I don't see myself needing such a huge capacity in the near future and adding 2tb drives is perfectly possible in this case. However, one more question bro, is that if I'm running FreeNAS, does it mean my whole rig will be just for running the NAS and unable to be multitasking? Because I was wondering if I could give it a better job than just lying around waiting to read and write files, and maybe like as a computer for streaming videos online etc. I'm unfamiliar with the FreeNAS environment. Thanks and cheers!

@UrbanFreestyle

bro, sorry to bother again. But regarding this question about FreeNAS, is there any workarounds or its just the way it is??

[UrbanFreestyle]

@hkeatmy

So FreeNAS can be used to do other things rather than sitting idle. You can do this by using Jails and Plugins. Things like running a VM, Running a torrent server, Minecraft server (i think) webserver etc.

Worth having a look in their forums for the best plugins for what you are after.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, hkeatmy said:

However, one more question bro, is that if I'm running FreeNAS, does it mean my whole rig will be just for running the NAS and unable to be multitasking? Because I was wondering if I could give it a better job than just lying around waiting to read and write files, and maybe like as a computer for streaming videos online etc. I'm unfamiliar with the FreeNAS environment. Thanks and cheers!

FreeNAS has the ability to host VMs, though not the best at that task but fine for light usage, so you could setup a streaming server or a Plex server. Other options would be using unRAID which is better at the VM hosting or Promox which would be the more advanced option in terms of feature coverage.

[hkeatmy]

@UrbanFreestyle @leadeater

 

you guys are lifesavers! Thank you so much!!

[UrbanFreestyle]

@hkeatmy 

Always to help out those that i can

[seagate_surfer]

This looks very complete bro! Looks like you did your homework! 

[Thirdgen89GTA]

Your build is complete, but extremely bare bones and will be end of life before its even it's built.  Not end of life meaning it won't function, but end of life meaning it will only be able to do the basic function of NAS.  No extras.

 

Your SSD's, those are fine, but don't use them for caching.  Instead use them for hosting smaller, more frequently accessed files.  Make them their own vDev (Array) to host data. Family pictures, documents...etc.  Or save money by eliminating them entirely and putting it towards more 3.5" drives.

 

Skip the 2TB disks, and go straight to 4 or 6TB disks.  Those are the best Gigabyte per $ right now.  RaidZ1 is fine, but it feels scary to me.  Would much rather run Mirrored, or RaidZ6 depending on capacity required and $$$ to spend.  Your 6 2TB disks will cost you roughly $400.  You can get enterprise grade 4TB disks for roughly the same price per disk.  

 

6 Disks is an oddball number for a FreeNAS RaidZ1 vDev.  You can do it, but its not optimal. It is better to run them as a Striped Mirror (Raid 10) or RaidZ2 (Raid 6).

 

Striped/Mirror vDev

6 2TB disks in Striped Mirror will net 6TB of usable capacity.  You will end up with 3 vDevs.  Each of the 3 vDevs consists of two 2TB mirrored disks.  Data will be spread evenly across each mirror and the entire array will appear to be a single volume.  The only issues with Mirrored arrays is that despite you technically having 3 redundant disks, you can only lose 1 disk per mirror.  If you happened to lose 2 disks and both were part of the mirror, the array will crash. Though rebuilds are much less intensive with a Striped/Mirrored VDEV.

 

RaidZ2 vDev

The other option is RaidZ2 which will net you 8TB usable capacity with the ability to lose any two disks in the array. If your choice is a 5 disk RaidZ1 with a hot spare, just build it as a 6 disk RaidZ2.

 

Memory

With 8GB of ram, you will not have enough memory to get a decent ARC going.  So skip any thought of an SSD Cache (Called L2ARC in FreeNAS).  To effectively use an L2ARC you need more than 64GB+.  At 32GB you can run an L2ARC, but its the break-even point where performance suffers in some areas but gets better in others.   Less than 32GB and L2ARC will cause performance degradation.

 

You mention "other things".  With your bare minimum specs it will NOT function well in any role other than straight NAS.  You do not have enough system resources to run a Jail, and especially not a VM.  You need beefier hardware to deal with things like CPU transcoding (Plex) or running VMs.

 

What you have will work, but it will be end of life with no future upgrade path as built.

 

[seagate_surfer]

14 hours ago, Thirdgen89GTA said:

Skip the 2TB disks, and go straight to 4 or 6TB disks.  Those are the best Gigabyte per $ right now.  RaidZ1 is fine, but it feels scary to me.  Would much rather run Mirrored, or RaidZ6 depending on capacity required and $$$ to spend.  Your 6 2TB disks will cost you roughly $400.  You can get enterprise grade 4TB disks for roughly the same price per disk.  

He's got a point here. Of course all these depends on your personal budget but if it was possibly to 6TBHDDs do so.

[hkeatmy]

@Thirdgen89GTA @seagate_surfer

 

The main reason I want to go for 2tb drives is because locally, 2tb barracudas go for around 57USD, while 6tb barracuda drives go for around 280USD and WD red 6tb goes for around 194USD. I don't know if its the resale price here that is making me not see the value in getting bigger drives or there is something I'm missing out on. And I don't see myself getting to the point that I will need the option for a massive storage expansion, that's why I came to this solution. Any thoughts?

[seagate_surfer]

That's fine! It all depends on your needs and budget, you still have a lot of room with what you already have.

[Thirdgen89GTA]

That seems an insane difference.  Are you in the US?  If so, you should be seeing similar prices on disks as I am.

 

On the subject of "not needing expansion" you WILL need expansion some day.  Its a guarantee.  The SATA interface for mass storage is not going to go away for a while yet.  I understand the budget viewpoint.  But if the cost difference between a 2TB disk, and a 4TB disk is $10, it makes very little sense to go with 2TB disks.

 

Your $57 2TB drives cost you $28.5 per TB.

 

The Seagate Constellation ES drives I listed will cost you $17.25 per TB.  Much cheaper and these are brand new enterprise drives with a 5 year warranty.  Not refurbished, renewed or used.

 

I can find brand new 4TB 3.5" drives in the $70-$100 region all day long depending on what brand/model I'm looking at.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Constellation-ST4000NM0033-Internal-Enterprise/dp/B07RD3L1N8/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1PSSZI8IDFWOL&keywords=seagate+constellation+4tb&qid=1572372754&sprefix=seagate+console%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-4

[Thirdgen89GTA]

Also, your 450w power supply is perfectly fine.

 

My FreeNAS server is in my signature below.  I have a combined 8x 2.5" SSDs, and 15 3.5" drives and the system consumes about 200w at FULL load when transcoding video for multiple Plex clients.  It idles around 140w.

But my server also has two SAS cards which consume 10-15w each on their own, the 15 3.5" drives, i7-4790k CPU..etc....

 

[seagate_surfer]

10 minutes ago, Thirdgen89GTA said:

The Seagate Constellation ES drives I listed will cost you $17.25 per TB.  Much cheaper and these are brand new enterprise drives with a 5 year warranty.  Not refurbished, renewed or used.

This is an easy decision, if you can find them available in your country go with the Constellation drives.

[hkeatmy]

@seagate_surfer @Thirdgen89GTA

 

I have people to bring it back to me from the states and I find the constellation drives very good as well. But most drives sold on amazon that are slightly cheaper seem to be all used products, like the link that you've sent. Should that be the way as constellation drives are normally far more expensive??

[Thirdgen89GTA]

Or consider this.

 

2 IronWolf 6TB drives will cost you $140 each.  Run them in a simple mirrored config.

https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-IronWolf-7200RPM-Internal-3-5-Inch/dp/B07H1W6214/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=ironwolf+6tb&qid=1572451603&sr=8-2

 

You'll spend $280 on two 6TB drives, instead of near $390 on 6 2TB drives.

 

Your array will have the same capacity, use less power, greater reliability, and you'll get the 3 year warranty.

[seagate_surfer]

2 hours ago, hkeatmy said:

@seagate_surfer @Thirdgen89GTA

 

I have people to bring it back to me from the states and I find the constellation drives very good as well. But most drives sold on amazon that are slightly cheaper seem to be all used products, like the link that you've sent. Should that be the way as constellation drives are normally far more expensive??

Try to avoid using second-hand HDDs as much as possible please, better make an effort and buy them brand new because if you buy them used is like playing lottery.