Discussion: linus his rant on not accepting bitcoin!

[Vampire2.0]

If you haven't seen the stream here's a link the the 25 second rant on not accepting bitcoin: http://youtu.be/04W6A6HCm8g?t=1h19m5s

 

So here's my arguments on why you should accept them:

 

- No limit on how many people give them. like the problem you had with paypal.

- You get the cash without having to pay a banking fee. the buyers pays the fee

- Some people like myself can't pay in in CAD or USD because my bank doesn't supports it.

- Some people like myself have problems with Paypal.

- Some people like myself who still live with there parents need to live buy there parents laws and are not allowed to access there own money.

- What would make it a problem for you to open up the amount of people you can sell badges/goody's to you still get the "regular money"

 

@LinusTech and @Slick : why would you not accept it?

What are your thoughts on it?

 

sorry if my English is not that great its not my main language.

[legopc]

YEAH GO GET EM GIRL 

[Vitalius]

This. 

I would like it if they accepted Bitcoins. It would really raise the number of people who can give them money by a ton. 

Who knows? They may be working on it now. We just may not know about it. Here's to hoping.

[gastew15]

Just like he said, why not just exchange it for actually currency like USD? I mean retailers with any kind of logic shouldn't, because now they have essentially shares in a stock market now.. You could say we'll now they can convert, well why don't you then? I mean people wanting people to accept BitCoin just makes no sense in my head.. It's like why don't you accept yen at McDonalds in the U.S.? Well why don't you convert it to the local currency which means you have the same amount and pay for it like that like you're supposed to... Argument for it is just stupid IMO /rant

[Vitalius]

Just like he said, why not just exchange it for actually currency like USD? I mean retailers with any kind of logic shouldn't, because now they have essentially shares in a stock market now.. You could say we'll now they can convert, well why don't you then? I mean people wanting people to accept BitCoin just makes no sense in my head.. It's like why don't you accept yen at McDonalds in the U.S.? Well why don't you convert it to the local currency which means you have the same amount and pay for it like that like you're supposed to... Argument for it is just stupid IMO /rant

Because converting to the local currency is a pain in the butt. 

Such a pain is more easily bared by the business entity receiving it, rather than all the consumers giving it. Plus, only one person has to deal with it then. And they usually get much better rates of exchange (since they are a business and thereby will bring in a lot of currency flow).

It's in the best interest of all parties that the business entities do this. Rather than the consumers themselves.

And they don't have to play in the stock market. They instantly sell the BTC after they receive it (part of being a business entity), and they will get the price they rated the item at that moment.

[Mentalguy]

- Some people like myself who still live with there parents need to live buy there parents laws and are not allowed to access there own money.

I'm not sure how old you are, but if it is your money, they cant really stop you.

[Vitalius]

Also, I want to note that I voted no to the first two questions. The first one is somewhat... irrelevant. However, I don't love money. I don't even like money. I like the things I can get with money. 

As for the second one, I wouldn't accept Yen in the equivalent amount because I'm a consumer and trading Yen for USD would be a pain in my butt. However, a businessj-like entity should be fine with it. There's a difference there.

I'm not sure how old you are, but if it is your money, they cant really stop you.

If you want to use that logic (assuming he lives with them), he shouldn't be allowed to access that money unless his parents let him.

If I were a parent, and my kid said this to me, I would immediately say, "Well, fine, you can have it. Right after I take out my share for raising you. That's 100% of it btw. You sure you still want to do this?"

[Vitalius]

-double post-

[gastew15]

Because converting to the local currency is a pain in the butt. 

Such a pain is more easily bared by the business entity receiving it, rather than all the consumers giving it. Plus, only one person has to deal with it then. And they usually get much better rates of exchange (since they are a business and thereby will bring in a lot of currency flow).

It's in the best interest of all parties that the business entities do this. Rather than the consumers themselves.

And they don't have to play in the stock market. They instantly sell the BTC after they receive it (part of being a business entity), and they will get the price they rated the item at that moment.

From every single bit of me that's an economist (A lot of me) I completely fail to see A: How the exchange price would be any different besides whoever is doing it's fees for doing so. B: Why would the business care? Yes they do want your money in exchange for their service, but why offer something that's alot of work (Enough work that the buyer doesn't want to do it) for a small amount of people? I mean it makes almost zero economical sense to do this. It goes back to the example I gave above, if you walk into a store with foreign currency they are going to turn you away, and not feel too bad about the loss because not many people come in with that foreign currency. The only time that would change would be lets say right on the border between areas with different currency, so the demand is high enough to offer that service. BitCoin is exactly the same, it's foreign currency to them, and it lacks enough popularity for any business to really offer it as an option. You can vote with your money as that's what Capitalism is all about, but just like any vote if you don't have enough force it doesn't mean anything.

[Mentalguy]

If you want to use that logic (assuming he lives with them), he shouldn't be allowed to access that money unless his parents let him.

If I were a parent, and my kid said this to me, I would immediately say, "Well, fine, you can have it. Right after I take out my share for raising you. That's 100% of it btw. You sure you still want to do this?"

That depends on whether he is the one who makes the money(from a job). If so, his parent are assholes for doing that.

[Ssoele]

@LinusTech, the solution: https://bitpay.com/ easy to use and low fees! That way you don't have to bother with converting Bitcoins to Cash.

[Mentalguy]

From every single bit of me that's an economist (A lot of me) I completely fail to see A: How the exchange price would be any different besides whoever is doing it's fees for doing so. B: Why would the business care? Yes they do want your money in exchange for their service, but why offer something that's alot of work (Enough work that the buyer doesn't want to do it) for a small amount of people? I mean it makes almost zero economical sense to do this. It goes back to the example I gave above, if you walk into a store with foreign currency they are going to turn you away, and not feel too bad about the loss because not many people come in with that foreign currency. The only time that would change would be lets say right on the border between areas with different currency, so the demand is high enough to offer that service. BitCoin is exactly the same, it's foreign currency to them, and it lacks enough popularity for any business to really offer it as an option. You can vote with your money as that's what Capitalism is all about, but just like any vote if you don't have enough force it doesn't mean anything.

You are forgetting that, when it comes to a big company(tigerdirect for example), It is all automated. A consumer is able to do this, but im sure as hell not paying someone to write the code for me.

[Vitalius]

From every single bit of me that's an economist (A lot of me) I completely fail to see A: How the exchange price would be any different besides whoever is doing it's fees for doing so. B: Why would the business care? Yes they do want your money in exchange for their service, but why offer something that's alot of work (Enough work that the buyer doesn't want to do it) for a small amount of people? I mean it makes almost zero economical sense to do this. It goes back to the example I gave above, if you walk into a store with foreign currency they are going to turn you away, and not feel too bad about the loss because not many people come in with that foreign currency. The only time that would change would be lets say right on the border between areas with different currency, so the demand is high enough to offer that service. BitCoin is exactly the same, it's foreign currency to them, and it lacks enough popularity for any business to really offer it as an option. You can vote with your money as that's what Capitalism is all about, but just like any vote if you don't have enough force it doesn't mean anything.

 

... "Small amount of People"... You don't know how many people use cryptocurrencies, do you?

That depends on whether he is the one who makes the money(from a job). If so, his parent are assholes for doing that.

Assholes for trying to make him save his money for something more important later? I guess, but I wouldn't call that an asshole move. I'd call it "Doing what's best for your kid, when they don't know what's best for themselves."

You are forgetting that, when it comes to a big company(tigerdirect for example), It is all automated. A consumer is able to do this, but im sure as hell not paying someone to write the code for me.

Exactly this. It would be less of a hassle for them to accept BTC and convert it to USD, than it is for consumers to take BTC and convert it to USD to buy things from them.

 

@LinusTech, the solution: https://bitpay.com/ easy to use and low fees! That way you don't have to bother with converting Bitcoins to Cash.

This. Basically.

BTC has been stable as of lately, at least relative to how it usually is.

[gastew15]

 

... "Small amount of People"... You don't know how many people use cryptocurrencies, do you?

In comparison to other currency in the world that a far more respected, yes. Last I checked the main portion of people that use crypto currency's know about crypto currency.. I have a hard enough time finding people who know anything about crypto currency beyond the name/ possibly a vague idea, let alone actually do anything with it. So no I don't think they is a big enough demand for it at all. THe only place I can think of that it even makes sense a little is that Tiger Direct did it, since a fair portion of their customers may actually use it; however, it was more of a PR stunt to get way more sales than usual because they got people who do use it's attention. Which now that won't happen nearly as much as the excitement wears off. Crypto currency's need far more time to be considered anything beyond a fad, and untill that happens it is pretty much a bad move to support it.

[gastew15]

You are forgetting that, when it comes to a big company(tigerdirect for example), It is all automated. A consumer is able to do this, but im sure as hell not paying someone to write the code for me.

Which that company has to have set up with whatever institution does that for them. (Since the demand for such a thing isn't very high why would that institution have things set up for it either, so now the company needs to pay them to get that set up) Which would definitely cause some charges which they could push on to the customers, but now you run into the problem where not only is market for people paying with BitCoin low, but since the bomb cost of setting something up that may fail soon isn't worth you shelling out  the money for an "investment" you tack it on the price which now could make it even more expensive that you just doing it yourself. Which would make a small market almost non existent.. It's not really worth it yet until Bitcoin becomes less niche and more credible. (which won't happen until quite a few places support which ends in a loop of failure.. So some places are going to have to, but why would anyone want to if there's not really much point in doing so from the start.) Which in conclusion leaves it up to crazy chance, which is not a good selling point to try to get someone to spend their money..

[Vitalius]

In comparison to other currency in the world that a far more respected, yes. Last I checked the main portion of people that use crypto currency's know about crypto currency.. I have a hard enough time finding people who know anything about crypto currency beyond the name/ possibly a vague idea, let alone actually do anything with it. So no I don't think they is a big enough demand for it at all. THe only place I can think of that it even makes sense a little is that Tiger Direct did it, since a fair portion of their customers may actually use it; however, it was more of a PR stunt to get way more sales than usual because they got people who do use it's attention. Which now that won't happen nearly as much as the excitement wears off. Crypto currency's need far more time to be considered anything beyond a fad, and untill that happens it is pretty much a bad move to support it.

Hmm, and how many of those other currencies are easy to get without doing anything illegal, or working (in the traditional sense)?

I mean really, with how many people have come to this site asking how to setup mining for their computers, how can you say it's a small amount?

Proportionately, yes, it's a small amount, relative to the more "respected" currencies, but proportionately, 3,000 is very small to 300,000,000. But regardless of that, both are a large amount of customers (numbers are arbitrary to show an example). 

I mean, really. That's a poor excuse. If a business like Tiger Direct and Overstock.com can accept BTC, then obviously it's main stream enough (or, from the eyes of those two websites, will be soon) to make it worth it. 

Yes, I know you used Tiger Direct as an example of it being a PR stunt and somewhat making sense, but why doesn't the latter apply to LMG? 80, if not 90% of the people who support LMG are going to be computer enthusiasts. Many of which probably crypto-mine. And many who may do so one day. It would make even more sense for them to accept BTC, than for Tiger Direct to imo. 

As for the former, I would believe a PR stunt to have been the only reason they accept BTC if it disappears one day (i.e. they don't accept it anymore). I doubt that will happen unless something catastrophic happens to the crypto world (i.e. BTC is hacked somehow or something equivalent happens). 

And even then, another major crypto currency (such as Litecoin) would probably replace Bitcoin. Albeit, it wouldn't have the same level of trust, but they are notably different (SHA256 VS Scrypt), so maybe whatever would make BTC vulnerable, might not make LTC vulnerable. 

I'm just saying. It seems like you are just heavily skewed against BTC. I see no real reason not to accept it. Especially with sites like www.bitpay.com. I'd consider it a no-brainer if I were personally running a business-type thing.

[TheRetiredSlave]

The main problem with Bitcoin for someone like Linus would be simple inconvenience.. There's no real justification for him to go out of his way to to accept a currency that could potentially drop in value by the time he can exchange it, not to mention the fact that he would also need to do a lot more work just to exchange it in the first place. People here can suggest [this site has an easy exchange!] all they want to, but it's still much much simpler for Linus just to take cash in the first place..

 

Edit: 

Accepting Bitcoin also is a lot of risk to take. for a company as small as LMG. They simply don't have the capacity to take a large hit if something bad were to happen. LMG is the job of the people who work there, so if LMG were to fail in any way they'd effectively be jobless.. Large companies can get into Bitocin because they aren't at risk of failing if they lose money on something. Sure, losing money is never a good thing for a company, but larger companies can do it without having the slightest potential of closing their doors.

 

Edit2:

To the OP, I'm sorry you don't like Paypal.. Let me put a spin on the third question of your lopsided poll: Would you temporarily use a service that you don't like if that's the only way you can get something you really want?

 

Also: Would you force someone else to use a service that puts them at extreme risk just because you want them to? 

[gastew15]

Hmm, and how many of those other currencies are easy to get without doing anything illegal, or working (in the traditional sense)?

I mean really, with how many people have come to this site asking how to setup mining for their computers, how can you say it's a small amount?

Proportionately, yes, it's a small amount, relative to the more "respected" currencies, but proportionately, 3,000 is very small to 300,000,000. But regardless of that, both are a large amount of customers (numbers are arbitrary to show an example). 

I mean, really. That's a poor excuse. If a business like Tiger Direct and Overstock.com can accept BTC, then obviously it's main stream enough (or, from the eyes of those two websites, will be soon) to make it worth it. 

Yes, I know you used Tiger Direct as an example of it being a PR stunt and somewhat making sense, but why doesn't the latter apply to LMG? 80, if not 90% of the people who support LMG are going to be computer enthusiasts. Many of which probably crypto-mine. And many who may do so one day. It would make even more sense for them to accept BTC, than for Tiger Direct to imo. 

As for the former, I would believe a PR stunt to have been the only reason they accept BTC if it disappears one day (i.e. they don't accept it anymore). I doubt that will happen unless something catastrophic happens to the crypto world (i.e. BTC is hacked somehow or something equivalent happens). 

And even then, another major crypto currency (such as Litecoin) would probably replace Bitcoin. Albeit, it wouldn't have the same level of trust, but they are notably different (SHA256 VS Scrypt), so maybe whatever would make BTC vulnerable, might not make LTC vulnerable. 

I'm just saying. It seems like you are just heavily skewed against BTC. I see no real reason not to accept it. Especially with sites like www.bitpay.com. I'd consider it a no-brainer if I were personally running a business-type thing.

I do believe that it is in fact possible to go places, and that alot of people are interested in it. I also see the fact that out of all those people asking about how many of them have any actual useable amount of money that they could use? I'm willing to wage most of those people mine for a couple of days, get tired of it and have like 0.00000000000023 Bitcoin in their wallets that they forget about. You also have the people who have no interest in using the currency and just want to hold on to it hoping it gets super big and they can cash out down the line. I have no personal issues with any of the cryptocurrencys just the logistics involved in even bothering with with them. My argument isn't about how they're evil or anything like that it's just that it's super easy to see why places do not, and why I myself wouldn't accept them. I do believe in the simple fact that no risk means no reward, but that can only go so far before it's just you going on a suicidal run with hardly any chance of success. (Some places have and I'm sure others will do well playing this dangerous game, but I don't really see a benefit big enough to try to do so...)

 

Edit: On a side note thank you for presenting reasonable arguments, and not just flaming like some people would. I mean part of that is the fact that you are Vitalius and not some troll obviously, but still even calm reasonable people become irate over nothing. I do enjoy having an informed argument.

[Mentalguy]

Edit: 

Accepting Bitcoin also is a lot of risk to take. for a company as small as LMG. They simply don't have the capacity to take a large hit if something bad were to happen. LMG is the job of the people who work there, so if LMG were to fail in any way they'd effectively be jobless.. Large companies can get into Bitocin because they aren't at risk of failing if they lose money on something. Sure, losing money is never a good thing for a company, but larger companies can do it without having the slightest potential of closing their doors.

 

I dont want LMG to accept BTC as payment for goods, I want them to accept it as donations. there is nothing to lose for that.

[legopc]

I dont want LMG to accept BTC as payment for goods, I want them to accept it as donations. there is nothing to lose for that.

yes please 

[Vampire2.0]

I'm not sure how old you are, but if it is your money, they cant really stop you.

i'm 18 and because i still live at home with my parents that's 1 of there stupid rules.

[Vampire2.0]

Just like he said, why not just exchange it for actually currency like USD? I mean retailers with any kind of logic shouldn't, because now they have essentially shares in a stock market now.. You could say we'll now they can convert, well why don't you then? I mean people wanting people to accept BitCoin just makes no sense in my head.. It's like why don't you accept yen at McDonalds in the U.S.? Well why don't you convert it to the local currency which means you have the same amount and pay for it like that like you're supposed to... Argument for it is just stupid IMO /rant

the McDonald thing is not really a valid argument you can't buy stuff from a local McDonald on the other side of the world.

[gastew15]

the McDonald thing is not really a valid argument you can't buy stuff from a local McDonald on the other side of the world.

I admit that perhaps what was written in that quote wasn't the best example or argument, but I'd suggest you read the rest of my posts if you want an understanding of my stance / argument.

[Vampire2.0]

That depends on whether he is the one who makes the money(from a job). If so, his parent are assholes for doing that.

I worked for the money but they don't get it when i would like to buy hardware and stuff or support a company i like. they want me to buy stuff like a car, an appartment,...

And yeah the last sentence is kind of true if parents is mother ( my dad is awesome but he has to listen to my mother she's the boss) 

[TheRetiredSlave]

the McDonald thing is not really a valid argument you can't buy stuff from a local McDonald on the other side of the world.

 

He does have a valid argument.. 

 

If you have Yen and you are in America, it's your responsibility to exchange your Yen for USD before you try to purchase things from a McDonalds in America. Linus deciding that he only want's to accept Dollars is no different. The fact that the internet allows you to instantaneously access a store in a completely different part of the world does not change the fact that it's your responsibility as a consumer to pay the vendor using methods that the vendor is willing to accept.