Studio headphone question

[N1D]

Hello. The qustion i have is this: If I use my £40 ATH-M20Xs and Sonarworks reference 4 headphone edition for mix referencing, will it be any worse than upgrading to ATH-M40/50Xs and using it? I know that there is complex phase correction going on in sonarworks and the actual main purpose of sonarworks is to EQ headphones, so those 2 factors should be the same, but what about things sonarworks can't change such as impulse time and harmonic distortion? Also, if sonarworks has to work harder to correct one pair of headphones to flat than the other, will the one that's had more work done to it come out worse in factors like these? thanks

[Turtle Rig]

9 minutes ago, N1D said:

Hello. The qustion i have is this: If I use my £40 ATH-M20Xs and Sonarworks reference 4 headphone edition for mix referencing, will it be any worse than upgrading to ATH-M40/50Xs and using it? I know that there is complex phase correction going on in sonarworks and the actual main purpose of sonarworks is to EQ headphones, so those 2 factors should be the same, but what about things sonarworks can't change such as impulse time and harmonic distortion? Also, if sonarworks has to work harder to correct one pair of headphones to flat than the other, will the one that's had more work done to it come out worse in factors like these? thanks

You sound like a audiophile so I would get the M40/50Xs.  Unless it is not in your budget!

[N1D]

2 minutes ago, Turtle Rig said:

You sound like a audiophile so I would get the M40/50Xs.  Unless it is not in your budget!

I was just wondering why though, because sonarworks flattens stuff so theoretically m20xs and m50xs should sound the same after flattening, right? If they both have the same frequency response and phase (due to the phase correction), would the other factors like impulse time and harmonic distortion even be that notable?

[rice guru]

Don't get the m50x not worth the asking price

[2FA]

M50X aren't a very good pair of headphones to use as reference unless you specifically like their sound profile and want THAT to be the reference. Kind of high priced for what they are anymore.

[N1D]

13 minutes ago, 2FA said:

M50X aren't a very good pair of headphones to use as reference unless you specifically like their sound profile and want THAT to be the reference. Kind of high priced for what they are anymore.

 

20 minutes ago, rice guru said:

Don't get the m50x not worth the asking price

Ok so m40x then, but is ther ea difference between sonarworks-flattened m40xs and sonarworks-flattened m20xs is the question i was trying to ask, and if there is one is it noticable

[N1D]

Sorry for double post but didnt really get n answerthe first time and need to know... the question is whether there's a difference between cheap headphones corrected with sonarworks and expensive headphones corrected with sonarworks. I'm only asking about sound. I know there are some things software can't change like impulse times and harmonic distortion, but if the frequency response and phase curves have both been flattened to the same then do factors like those even make a noticable difference? thanks in advance

[Turtle Rig]

20 minutes ago, N1D said:

Sorry for double post but didnt really get n answerthe first time and need to know... the question is whether there's a difference between cheap headphones corrected with sonarworks and expensive headphones corrected with sonarworks. I'm only asking about sound. I know there are some things software can't change like impulse times and harmonic distortion, but if the frequency response and phase curves have both been flattened to the same then do factors like those even make a noticable difference? thanks in advance

Well so long as the DAC is quality, moving to more expensive HP's you will notice the difference.  If this doesn't answer your question please try to ask in a more simple way.

[N1D]

14 minutes ago, Turtle Rig said:

Well so long as the DAC is quality, moving to more expensive HP's you will notice the difference.  If this doesn't answer your question please try to ask in a more simple way.

Thank you for your replies and patience. The question I had was whether a cheap pair of headphones and an expensive one will sound that different after being EQ corrected to the same frequency response and phase, because there are some things software can't change such as harmonic distortion and impulse time and I was wondering whether it's worth buying the pricier headphones just for tighter impulse times / more harmonic distortion headroom. Because after being corrected, their frequency curves will be exactly the same.

[Spuriae]

Sonarworks (or any conventional equalizer, for that matter) can't correct for headphone distortion (the M20X has significant distortion at low frequencies) or underdamped physical resonances (the M20X has a massive ringing null at 5.5kHz, and many more smaller ringing peaks). The M20X will sound significantly worse than better headphones, even with a good equalizer. Similarly, good headphones EQ'd to have the same frequency response as the M20X will still sound better than the M20X.

 

I am not aware of Sonarworks having physical phase correction.

[Turtle Rig]

5 minutes ago, N1D said:

Thank you for your replies and patience. The question I had was whether a cheap pair of headphones and an expensive one will sound that different after being EQ corrected to the same frequency response and phase, because there are some things software can't change such as harmonic distortion and impulse time and I was wondering whether it's worth buying the pricier headphones just for tighter impulse times / more harmonic distortion headroom. Because after being corrected, their frequency curves will be exactly the same.

What HP's you eyeing ?  What is your budget ?

[rice guru]

22 minutes ago, N1D said:

Sorry for double post but didnt really get n answerthe first time and need to know... the question is whether there's a difference between cheap headphones corrected with sonarworks and expensive headphones corrected with sonarworks. I'm only asking about sound. I know there are some things software can't change like impulse times and harmonic distortion, but if the frequency response and phase curves have both been flattened to the same then do factors like those even make a noticable difference? thanks in advance

Yes their is. Sonar works only makes the frequency response neutral.. While more expensive headphones have more detail retention possible better imaging, separation and soundstage.every headphone is different. 

[rice guru]

I personally don't re;ly on software trather buy headph9ones towartds the specific sound I want and need. whether the jump in price is worth it or not is up to you for me it's a case by case basis

[N1D]

11 minutes ago, Turtle Rig said:

What HP's you eyeing ?  What is your budget ?

I already have ATH-M20Xs. I was considering an upgrade to ATH-M40xs. I don't have a specific budget as long as I'm not spending too much, but the 40s looked like a really good deal for the money. I know they are more accurate for mixing, the purpose I want them for, but im tryna find out whther the accuracy would be that affected by factors sonarworks cant fix like impulse time and harmonic distortion

[N1D]

1 minute ago, rice guru said:

I personally don't re;ly on software trather buy headph9ones towartds the specific sound I want and need. whether the jump in price is worth it or not is up to you for me it's a case by case basis

ah thanks, guess ill shell out the cash and upgrade

[Turtle Rig]

1 minute ago, N1D said:

I already have ATH-M20Xs. I was considering an upgrade to ATH-M40xs. I don't have a specific budget as long as I'm not spending too much, but the 40s looked like a really good deal for the money. I know they are more accurate for mixing, the purpose I want them for, but im tryna find out whther the accuracy would be that affected by factors sonarworks cant fix like impulse time and harmonic distortion

So long as where the jack goes is not your onboard sound instead to a interface with 1"4 jack there is huge difference on HP's unless their cheap ole usb gaming HP's and what not.

[rice guru]

4 minutes ago, N1D said:

I already have ATH-M20Xs. I was considering an upgrade to ATH-M40xs. I don't have a specific budget as long as I'm not spending too much, but the 40s looked like a really good deal for the money. I know they are more accurate for mixing, the purpose I want them for, but im tryna find out whther the accuracy would be that affected by factors sonarworks cant fix like impulse time and harmonic distortion

software can only do so much just buythe m40's on amzon if you dont like them return them

[rice guru]

2 minutes ago, Turtle Rig said:

So long as where the jack goes is not your onboard sound instead to a interface with 1"4 jack there is huge difference on HP's unless their cheap ole usb gaming HP's and what not.

well I mean no at the level of headphones hes buying the difference wont be as noticable as if he spend maybe $40-$60 more to get to midfi territory

[Turtle Rig]

1 minute ago, rice guru said:

software can only do so much just buy the m40's on amazon if you don't like them return them

NIcely said rice guru.  I mean I personally have no experience with what your using.  But listen to rice guru, worst case return them.

[TVwazhere]

-Threads Merged-

 

Please refrain from making duplicate posts in the future.