Ryzen 3700x PBO pulling to much current?

[Gilgam3s1]

So far still zero actual answers in looking for just a whole lot of bickering so since I didnt to risk it I turned PBO off and just set my all core oc at 4.25 at 1.287v as it stomps my PBO score anyway atleast then I k ow im only pulling what current I tell it too since ryzen Dosent let you alter the current in PBO apperently (second question ilfor this thread)

[paulmohr]

Like I said, look at your wattage and heat under a load. wattage and voltage will give you your current. If your wattage and heat is lower even at a higher voltage then you are drawing less amps.

 

By "stomps your PBO score" what bench mark and by how much are we talking?

[scottyseng]

1 hour ago, Gilgam3s1 said:

So far still zero actual answers in looking for just a whole lot of bickering so since I didnt to risk it I turned PBO off and just set my all core oc at 4.25 at 1.287v as it stomps my PBO score anyway atleast then I k ow im only pulling what current I tell it too since ryzen Dosent let you alter the current in PBO apperently (second question ilfor this thread)

If I remember right, in JayzTwocent's Ryzen overclocking video, ASUS's BIOS was bit screwy with voltages (too high out of the box).

 

I'm curious about this too (My friend's build that I'm working on currently has a X570 Prime Pro and 3700X). Congrats on the 4.3 GHz all core though.

[Gilgam3s1]

7 hours ago, paulmohr said:

Like I said, look at your wattage and heat under a load. wattage and voltage will give you your current. If your wattage and heat is lower even at a higher voltage then you are drawing less amps.

 

By "stomps your PBO score" what bench mark and by how much are we talking?

Normally by using PBO at least at what settings I was given, in cine20 just as example PBO would score on average around 4400 on 3600oc men and 1800 on fclck but when at all core 4.25 I'll average around 5-5300 and that's at 1.28 volts, score is slightly higher at 4.3 but gotta push those volts to 1.33-34 trade off just didn't seem worth it

Granted thats one example but other tests would show similar results percentage wise 

[Gilgam3s1]

2 hours ago, scottyseng said:

If I remember right, in JayzTwocent's Ryzen overclocking video, ASUS's BIOS was bit screwy with voltages (too high out of the box).

 

I'm curious about this too (My friend's build that I'm working on currently has a X570 Prime Pro and 3700X). Congrats on the 4.3 GHz all core though.

And my board or bios perhaps wasn't that bad only thing I had to really change was vvdg voltage from auto (don't trust most things at auto right now) and core volts my core volts as that at base was like 1.41 which is gross. Soc was little over 1 out of box and everything else was we'll within margin id say at least fallowing jays advice

[paulmohr]

Ok, those scores are better. I just wasn't seeing that with my 3600 and R15. Maybe I will test it on 20 and see if its different. I was getting maybe a difference of 60 to 80 points and pulling considerably more wattage and making more heat. Not a 1,000 point difference lol. Plus the 3700x has more cores, pulls less power and overclocks with less voltage. Comparing my 3600 to it may not be the best scenario, but its what I have.

 

My point was kind of that using PBO is "supposed" to increase your performance while still keeping things relatively safe, which is why using it doesn't void the waranty. It shows higher voltages but it isn't on all cores at the same time and isn't constant so it keepts the current draw a bit lower. With a manual all core overclock it isn't doing that and you can overide some of the safety measures built into it. The down side is you dont' get the same performance with PBO, especially on an all core load. On mine it does seem to greatly improve single core speeds over a manual overclock though. Everything has trade offs I guess.

[paulmohr]

Ok, I just did a ton of testing today and this is what I discovered with my 3600 on a b450 tomahawk with the 1.9 bios.

 

I tested it at stock default settings, PBO enabled using the "enhanced mode" profile 3, Game Boost, which is I guess the the motherboards auto overclocking thing and a manual over clock as high as I could get it and still run decent. Ended up being 4.25 ghz at around 1.38-1.39 volts. I ran cenibench R15 in multi and single and R20 in multi. Single channel just takes waay to long in R20 for me lol. I took notes of the core voltages, package power, cpu temp, clock speeds and the bench mark scores. These were my results:

 

Stock                  PBO EM3           game boost(4.2)         Manual OC 4.25@1.38V

R15 multi
temp-    67              71                           70                            74              
voltage- 1.36          1.38                        1.075                       1.344
power-   85w           91w                        86w                         96w
clock-   4.125          4.125                      4.205                       4.258
score-   1620          1633                       1663                        1680

 

R15 single
temp-    48               62                           51                           51    
voltage- 1.36           1.45                        1.1                          1.34
power-   30w           40w                         38w                        32w
clock-   4.2              4.4                           4.205                     4.258
score-   195            201                          196                        199

 

R20
temp-    68              72                            70                           76             
voltage- 1.36          1.38                         1.075                      1.335
power-   87w          91w                          89w                        100w
clock-   4.125         4.125                       4.205                       4.258
score-   3711         3731                         3804                        3848

 

So if we look at the figures and do the math to figure out amperage draw it looks like I was indeed wrong, at least with my cpu/mobo combo. For PBO in multi core you basically get the same clock speeds and performance as running it stock. However we can see it uses more voltage, watts and runs warmer. With a current difference between 62 amps and 70 amps.

 

If we look at the single core test it more closely matches the 4.25 OC performance. The difference being it boosts to 4.4 ghz. However its at 1.45 volts, 40 watts and 10 degrees warmer than the over clock. That is 27 amps vs 24 amps for basically the same score.

 

I will note that with PBO the computer will idle more effeciently then the manual overclock does. And it doesn't load all your cores when doing single threaded stuff. With a manual all core overclock it loads every core with pretty much the same voltage and clock speed all the time, idle, single core or multi core. What it doesn't do though is use the same wattage in single core and idle. So while it shows the same voltage and clock speed on every core the current does vary so they are not all really maxed out all the time.

 

I guess PBO would be ok if you really wanted high single core clock speeds, wanted the computer to be more efficient when idling and didn't want to tinker with things. It is fairly easy to turn on in the bios. Other than that I don't see much of a use for it. If you want more performance let the motherboard auto clock it if its an option, or do a safe manual overclock. Otherwise just leave it stock and the computer will run more efficiently. The bench marks look nifty but for most people they will never notice an overcock during normal use. Some might though depending on what they use their computer for.

 

I know none of this is probably information you wanted lol. But I was going to run the tests anyway to see what worked best and I was bored so I decided to share the information.

[Gilgam3s1]

5 hours ago, paulmohr said:

Ok, I just did a ton of testing today and this is what I discovered with my 3600 on a b450 tomahawk with the 1.9 bios.

 

I tested it at stock default settings, PBO enabled using the "enhanced mode" profile 3, Game Boost, which is I guess the the motherboards auto overclocking thing and a manual over clock as high as I could get it and still run decent. Ended up being 4.25 ghz at around 1.38-1.39 volts. I ran cenibench R15 in multi and single and R20 in multi. Single channel just takes waay to long in R20 for me lol. I took notes of the core voltages, package power, cpu temp, clock speeds and the bench mark scores. These were my results:

 

Stock                  PBO EM3           game boost(4.2)         Manual OC 4.25@1.38V

R15 multi
temp-    67              71                           70                            74              
voltage- 1.36          1.38                        1.075                       1.344
power-   85w           91w                        86w                         96w
clock-   4.125          4.125                      4.205                       4.258
score-   1620          1633                       1663                        1680

 

R15 single
temp-    48               62                           51                           51    
voltage- 1.36           1.45                        1.1                          1.34
power-   30w           40w                         38w                        32w
clock-   4.2              4.4                           4.205                     4.258
score-   195            201                          196                        199

 

R20
temp-    68              72                            70                           76             
voltage- 1.36          1.38                         1.075                      1.335
power-   87w          91w                          89w                        100w
clock-   4.125         4.125                       4.205                       4.258
score-   3711         3731                         3804                        3848

 

So if we look at the figures and do the math to figure out amperage draw it looks like I was indeed wrong, at least with my cpu/mobo combo. For PBO in multi core you basically get the same clock speeds and performance as running it stock. However we can see it uses more voltage, watts and runs warmer. With a current difference between 62 amps and 70 amps.

 

If we look at the single core test it more closely matches the 4.25 OC performance. The difference being it boosts to 4.4 ghz. However its at 1.45 volts, 40 watts and 10 degrees warmer than the over clock. That is 27 amps vs 24 amps for basically the same score.

 

I will note that with PBO the computer will idle more effeciently then the manual overclock does. And it doesn't load all your cores when doing single threaded stuff. With a manual all core overclock it loads every core with pretty much the same voltage and clock speed all the time, idle, single core or multi core. What it doesn't do though is use the same wattage in single core and idle. So while it shows the same voltage and clock speed on every core the current does vary so they are not all really maxed out all the time.

 

I guess PBO would be ok if you really wanted high single core clock speeds, wanted the computer to be more efficient when idling and didn't want to tinker with things. It is fairly easy to turn on in the bios. Other than that I don't see much of a use for it. If you want more performance let the motherboard auto clock it if its an option, or do a safe manual overclock. Otherwise just leave it stock and the computer will run more efficiently. The bench marks look nifty but for most people they will never notice an overcock during normal use. Some might though depending on what they use their computer for.

 

I know none of this is probably information you wanted lol. But I was going to run the tests anyway to see what worked best and I was bored so I decided to share the information.

I did similar testing and when stock plus 3600mem oc compared to my highest mem oc with PBO on without tuning the Fclk I lost like 12points in cine20 after readjusting my Fclks to half ram oc......gained 6...pbo dumb

[Dreamer758]

On 7/20/2019 at 3:31 PM, GoldenLag said:

If its PBO doing its thing. Its fine. Even 1,45 volt isnt super lethal in allcore overclocks. 

wont that drastically reduce lifespan

[paulmohr]

Depends, voltage is only one part of the equation. And as for lifespan it depends on what you consider drastic. If you get a new cpu every couple of years when the technology changes it probably isn't much of a concern. Its not going kill the thing in a few months or anything. Now if you want it to work right with no issues for as long as possible, then yes it could be a problem. That is one of the reason I tend to not overclock my stuff. I normally play with it to see what I can get. And in most cases the performance gain isn't worth the risk so I just drop it back down to stock. That is just me, its a personal thing I guess.

[GoldenLag]

1 hour ago, Dreamer758 said:

wont that drastically reduce lifespan

In manual overclocking scenarios, with 7nm i dont exactly know where the coltage becomes a degrading issue, but in the case of PBO and PB. It really doesnt matter at these voltages are not applied nor used the same way as in a manual overclock.

 

One can ignore the voltages PB pushes out as those voltages are completely safe for the system. 

[Gilgam3s1]

8 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

In manual overclocking scenarios, with 7nm i dont exactly know where the coltage becomes a degrading issue, but in the case of PBO and PB. It really doesnt matter at these voltages are not applied nor used the same way as in a manual overclock.

 

One can ignore the voltages PB pushes out as those voltages are completely safe for the system. 

Agreed but at this point it turns out most if not all can just turn PBO off as testing by multiple reviewers have determined PBO makes little to no difference in performance in most scenarios and after turning mine off and saying voltage to 1.28 I still reach peak performance without seeing such high marks in hwinfo and cpuid on average shows my voltage below the 1.287 Mark and barely over under full load and after doing a total fresh install supprisingly and unknowingly performance has only improved 

[Gilgam3s1]

IMO PBO off, boost on, voltage set to 1.28 Fclk oc set to 1700, ram oc set too 3400 stock timings and voltage from 3200 corsair pro has resulted in score of 4888- 4900 at stock and a new seting of 4.25all core at 1.37 volts results in 5500- 5600 but IV desired to keep cpu as health as possible so I'm sticking to minimal ocs to keep maximum stability. In short PBO =pretty much usless power hungry mode

[MrMoonboots]

Hey man, I made a thread about this and a couple of us found out if you turn PBO off and switch your power plan to Windows High Performance, and edit the plans minimum processor setting to 10%, max to 100% it does a great job of letting your CPU relax when you aren't doing anything, doesn't sacrifice performance when you are, and PBO isn't so trigger happy from just moving your mouse around. At least it's worked for me (My idle voltage seems to steady itself around 0.9 with a few peaks to 1.4 here and there with these settings together),

try it and let me know if it helps out!

[Gilgam3s1]

20 minutes ago, MrMoonboots said:

Hey man, I made a thread about this and a couple of us found out if you turn PBO off and switch your power plan to Windows High Performance, and edit the plans minimum processor setting to 10%, max to 100% it does a great job of letting your CPU relax when you aren't doing anything, doesn't sacrifice performance when you are, and PBO isn't so trigger happy from just moving your mouse around. At least it's worked for me (My idle voltage seems to steady itself around 0.9 with a few peaks to 1.4 here and there with these settings together),

try it and let me know if it helps out!

Turns out changing power plans effect when cpu recieves clock cycles and how many I wish I could site the source but you are indeed correct when set to balance or on any windows setting it pulls less instructions as to the "ryzen" power plans thus resulting in less random voltage pulls. Ryzen plans are supposedly suggested for oc or instability purposes at least from what I seen