Subwoofer upgrade

[BluJay614]

SO, I understand these aren't the best speakers out there to begin with, but they get the job done for now, and don't sound too bad for a little over $25. However, I was wondering if anyone has tried upgrading the subwoofer driver, and what their experience was.

[Derkoli]

53 minutes ago, BluJay614 said:

SO, I understand these aren't the best speakers out there to begin with, but they get the job done for now, and don't sound too bad for a little over $25. However, I was wondering if anyone has tried upgrading the subwoofer driver, and what their experience was.

I've never tried doing this, but it probably wouldnt sound better, it might sound even worse as drivers are generally matched to enclosures. Hence why you see ported and sealed subwoofers have different enclosures, and drivers all have different enclosures. Also the amplifier is probably not the cleanest thing ever, so if it is a more efficient driver you may start hearing humming, and if the driver isn't efficient enough, the amplifier might start to clip and distort and cause all sorts of other issues.

[circeseye]

when replacing a sub in a enclosure you have to make sure 2 things.....1...ohm , you need to make sure the ohm of the sub matches ohm the amp can handle. 4ohm for 4ohm, 8ohm for 8ohm......now if its a 6ohm amp you can actualy use either 4ohm or 8 ohm (i have 6ohm amps on mine and put in 4ohm subs and it works just fine)( 4ohm hits harder but a little hotter running amp...8ohm softer hit, cooler amp if a 6ohm amp)
2...get min rms watt the amp can handle........so say the amp is 200 watt rms get 200 watt min rms sub to replace (again mine was 180 watt rms amps i threw in 500 watt alpines and they sound awesome)
oh and dont change the size of the sub, the enclosure is the size for that size sub (in other wards 8" get 8" and so on. if its a 8" dont cut a bigger hole and throw in a 10" it WILL sound horrible cause the enclosure isnt designed for that size sub)
edit opps just remembered one thing..sub depth...depending on sub enclosure type you may need to get a sub thats shallow ..one of my subs has its port in the center throwing downward so had to get a slightly shorter height in sub depth because of the air tube connected to it

[circeseye]

40 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

I've never tried doing this, but it probably wouldnt sound better, it might sound even worse as drivers are generally matched to enclosures. Hence why you see ported and sealed subwoofers have different enclosures, and drivers all have different enclosures. Also the amplifier is probably not the cleanest thing ever, so if it is a more efficient driver you may start hearing humming, and if the driver isn't efficient enough, the amplifier might start to clip and distort and cause all sorts of other issues.

subs are subs where did you get driver depends on enclosure? here check this out it explains the difference between the 2 types..its always depended on what sound you want when it came to enclosure. (mainly when it came to car set ups, most house set ups are ported)
https://www.mtx.com/library-vented-sealed-subwoofer-enclosures

 

and the ports just throw the bass differently depending on position..front, rear, floor again does not depend on sub (but depending on what sub port type you have depends on sub placement in room to maximize the sound coming from it) ..now quality of sub speaker is a different matter

[Derkoli]

17 minutes ago, circeseye said:

subs are subs where did you get driver depends on enclosure? here check this out it explains the difference between the 2 types..its always depended on what sound you want when it came to enclosure. (mainly when it came to car set ups, most house set ups are ported)
https://www.mtx.com/library-vented-sealed-subwoofer-enclosures

 

and the ports just throw the bass differently depending on position..front, rear, floor again does not depend on sub (but depending on what sub port type you have depends on sub placement in room to maximize the sound coming from it) ..now quality of sub speaker is a different matter

Well if you put a 3 inch X-max driver into an enclosure designed for a 5 inch X-max driver, the enclosure wont be pressurised properly, and vice versa. Also the driver's displacement has to be taken into account when making an enclosure sound good with the driver. There's tonnes of calculators to calculate a driver's displacement and suitable enclosure volume.

https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/SpeakerBoxEnclosure/

https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/SpeakerDriverDisplacement/

Also ports arent for "throwing" bass differently. Bass is omni-directional and the port is used to tune the enclosure.

[circeseye]

5 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

Well if you put a 3 inch X-max driver into an enclosure designed for a 5 inch X-max driver, the enclosure wont be pressurised properly, and vice versa. Also the driver's displacement has to be taken into account when making an enclosure sound good with the driver. There's tonnes of calculators to calculate a driver's displacement and suitable enclosure volume.

https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/SpeakerBoxEnclosure/

https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/SpeakerDriverDisplacement/

well yea you dont throw in a different size sub that the enclosure uses..i said that in my response to him.... it looks like the z313 enclosure uses a 9in sub in it..now THAT will be hard to replace
and yea i know about the size stuff ...damn math...but on avearge say you have a 12" sub enclosure you can still use almost any 12"sub in the enclosure

[Derkoli]

4 minutes ago, circeseye said:

well yea you dont throw in a different size sub that the enclosure uses..i said that in my response to him.... it looks like the z313 enclosure uses a 9in sub in it..now THAT will be hard to replace

By 3 and 5 inch X-max i mean how much excursion the driver has, like some drivers will move only a little bit, while others will move an absolute tonne.

[circeseye]

well thats true in that sense....

[Ravendarat]

Plenty of times you can change the size of a sub in an enclosure. The original size of the sub has zero to do with what the replacement can be. You can take an enclosure made for an 8" and put in a 12 as long as there is sufficient space for a baffle and the air space is sufficient. Ive seen 8 inch subs require .5 cubic feet of airspace and a 12 that will require .4-.6. In that case you could use the enclosure as long as there is one side that physically can be cut to hold the 12. With all that being said, generally speaking when you buy a set of speakers like computer speakers, the sub, amp, and enclosure were designed to basically be optimum. Changing the sub is highly unlikely to make a noticeable difference unless the original speaker was blown/abused.

[circeseye]

6 minutes ago, Ravendarat said:

Plenty of times you can change the size of a sub in an enclosure. The original size of the sub has zero to do with what the replacement can be. You can take an enclosure made for an 8" and put in a 12 as long as there is sufficient space for a baffle and the air space is sufficient. Ive seen 8 inch subs require .5 cubic feet of airspace and a 12 that will require .4-.6. In that case you could use the enclosure as long as there is one side that physically can be cut to hold the 12. With all that being said, generally speaking when you buy a set of speakers like computer speakers, the sub, amp, and enclosure were designed to basically be optimum. Changing the sub is highly unlikely to make a noticeable difference unless the original speaker was blown/abused.

jesus that 8" was a beast then if it needed the air space a 12" requires

[Ravendarat]

1 minute ago, circeseye said:

jesus that 8" was a beast then if it needed the air space a 12" requires

No sir, actually .5 cubic feet is not that unheard of for an 8, many fall into the .35 - .5 cubic ft range. .4-.6 is somewhat rare for a 12 but they are certainly out there.

[circeseye]

20 minutes ago, Ravendarat said:

No sir, actually .5 cubic feet is not that unheard of for an 8, many fall into the .35 - .5 cubic ft range. .4-.6 is somewhat rare for a 12 but they are certainly out there.

really high watt? HUGE coil?cause a 12" standard box usually is 12x12x12...a 8" is 8x8x8...now theres a big difference in size..this is just stock boxes no extra math and stuff that can get involved

[Ravendarat]

29 minutes ago, circeseye said:

really high watt? HUGE coil?cause a 12" standard box usually is 12x12x12...a 8" is 8x8x8...now theres a big difference in size..this is just stock boxes no extra math and stuff that can get involved

Where are you getting that info from. 8x8x8 without taking into account driver displacement and thickness of material is .29 cubic feet, obviously the 12x12x12 box is 1 cubic foot. If the material is .5 inches which would be understandable, then we are down to .24 cubic feet and then you take into account driver displacement and you are gonna be closer to .22 ish. That's not normal for a real sub of any size really. Now with that said there are manufactures, especially when talking about things like computer speakers, where they put a speaker in a box and call it a subwoofer but in reality its a speaker suited for midrange that they decided to put a lpf on and pass of as a sub in a poorly designed ported box, im not talking about that garbage, im talking about real subwoofer speakers.

[circeseye]

16 minutes ago, Ravendarat said:

Where are you getting that info from. 8x8x8 without taking into account driver displacement and thickness of material is .29 cubic feet, obviously the 12x12x12 box is 1 cubic foot. If the material is .5 inches which would be understandable, then we are down to .24 cubic feet and then you take into account driver displacement and you are gonna be closer to .22 ish. That's not normal for a real sub of any size really. Now with that said there are manufactures, especially when talking about things like computer speakers, where they put a speaker in a box and call it a subwoofer but in reality its a speaker suited for midrange that they decided to put a lpf on and pass of as a sub in a poorly designed ported box, im not talking about that garbage, im talking about real subwoofer speakers.

it was an example like this site said (i may be misquoting it)....its a good site to use..i used them to make my surrounds with woofers in them. and make boxes for cars
http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm

[Ravendarat]

33 minutes ago, circeseye said:

it was an example like this site said (i may be misquoting it)....its a good site to use..i used them to make my surrounds with woofers in them. and make boxes for cars
http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm

Ya I've seen that before, its an informative site but definitely very broad. Its not a bad source though, just not perfect by any means. Surround speakers are pretty forgiving when it comes to airspace calculations as well. I've been professionally installing car audio for almost 20 years and competing for a number of those as well, so you could say i've built a few enclosures in my day

[circeseye]

6 minutes ago, Ravendarat said:

Ya I've seen that before, its an informative site but definitely very broad. Its not a bad source though, just not perfect by any means. Surround speakers are pretty forgiving when it comes to airspace calculations as well. I've been professionally installing car audio for almost 20 years and competing for a number of those as well, so you could say i've built a few enclosures in my day

yea enclosures can be a pain. especially when angles and crap get involved (the special size to make fit) lol

[Ravendarat]

3 hours ago, circeseye said:

yea enclosures can be a pain. especially when angles and crap get involved (the special size to make fit) lol

One angle is fine, when you start getting multiple complex angles thats when shit hits the fan lol

[BluJay614]

@Ravendarat @circeseye Okay, from my understanding, provided I get a compatible size (for the life of me, I haven't been able to find it online, and haven't broken out a ruler as of yet), impedence (from what I've found 4oHm), I should be fine. This sound about right?

I'm not sure how rms comes into play here, as I know that Logitech claims it's a 15w sub with 5w satellites, totaling 25w, but with a peak of 50w.

[Ravendarat]

Ya if you find a sub that meets those numbers you can replace it, you also dont have to be exact in the wattage. As I said though I wouldnt expect much of a difference

[BluJay614]

21 minutes ago, Ravendarat said:

Ya if you find a sub that meets those numbers you can replace it, you also dont have to be exact in the wattage. As I said though I wouldnt expect much of a difference

How much would it matter if I got something rated for more RMS, say 30-40W?

[Derkoli]

24 minutes ago, BluJay614 said:

How much would it matter if I got something rated for more RMS, say 30-40W?

The driver might be not as efficient, but check the efficiency of the drivers, if it is more efficient then go for it i would say. You'll get more bass per watt of power being fed to the driver. And it can handle all the power the amplifier throws at it without getting cone-break up

[circeseye]

5 hours ago, BluJay614 said:

How much would it matter if I got something rated for more RMS, say 30-40W?

yea a higher watt sub will be fine