How much rad you really need.

[B NEGATIVE]

After a lengthy discussion on OCN regarding rad quantity for a loop,we came across this little gem.

 

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?p=15834219&posted=1#post15834219

 

A 3930k and 3 780's....all on a 280 rad.

 

With the ridiculous amount of rad quoted by some on this forum for a well performing loop,this will be an eye opener.

 

Just a little something to think about when you get recommendations of 360 rads for a single GPU....and reaffirmation of the rule of thumb of 120 then 120 for each block being bang on the money for a great loop that quiet.

 

Discuss.

[cerulean]

When I do my client builds I always go 3x120mm for a CPU only loop + 120mm for each GPU, That way you can have silent fans (1200/1300rpm premium brands) and still have great performance

 

First post too :3

[FloRolf]

I think if you go custom, just fit as many rads in the case as you can with the 120/block rule.

[KamiKatze]

I think if you go custom, just fit as many rads in the case as you can with the 120/block rule.

 

That is actually nice to know. I allways thought you'd have to do big setups for everything. I was thinking about watercooling my system in the future but my Define R4 can't hold that many rads. I was thinking about maybe GTX 880 SLI with an overclocked 4670K. Would two 240mm rads be enough? one slim in the top, one thick in the front? Aiming for low temps and low nosie ofc.

[B NEGATIVE]

That is actually nice to know. I allways thought you'd have to do big setups for everything. I was thinking about watercooling my system in the future but my Define R4 can't hold that many rads. I was thinking about maybe GTX 880 SLI with an overclocked 4670K. Would two 240mm rads be enough? one slim in the top, one thick in the front? Aiming for low temps and low nosie ofc.

2 240's will be plenty.

 

You dont need massive amounts of rad for a great loop,the more rad you have,the quieter the loop becomes but there is a crossover point where it becomes pointless.

 

The guy in the link has a 4.7 OC on his chip and 3 780's....all on half what you propose.

 

I wouldnt recommend what the guy in the link does but its a good example of the RL cooling power of rads,I got sick of seeing massive rads being specced for quite simple loops,people dont listen when you tell them these things so some testing examples were needed...now ,perhaps the overkill will stop.....

[Ghost]

Reaffirmation of the rule of thumb of 120 then 120 for each block being bang on the money for a great loop that quiet.

So if you have a loop with 2 RAM blocks and a motherboard block you should have 480 mm of rad space? That rule is very vague, point proven?

 

Also, why does the rule require you to add 120mm of rad space at the start of your calculation? As proved by AIO coolers you can put a CPU on a 120mm rad. As proved by the ARES II you can put not one but two GPUs on a 120mm rad and the temps will still be fine. Is it really that surprising that a 60mm thick 280 rad at full fan speeds can handle a cpu and three cards?

 

But why would you put in 240mm of rad space on a 1CPU and 2GPU system if you can add more, and it would mean, that either your temps would be lower, or your fans could run at a lower speed to achieve the the same or better temps.

[MrSuperb]

So if you have a loop with 2 RAM blocks and a motherboard block you should have 480 mm of rad space? That rule is very vague, point proven?

 

I'd guess that rule only applies to GPU blocks (or additional CPUs)

[Ghost]

I'd guess that rule only applies to GPU blocks (or additional CPUs)

Well, I'm sure it does, but it doesn't say that anywhere.

[B NEGATIVE]

So if you have a loop with 2 RAM blocks and a motherboard block you should have 480 mm of rad space? That rule is very vague, point proven?

 

Also, why does the rule require you to add 120mm of rad space at the start of your calculation? As proved by AIO coolers you can put a CPU on a 120mm rad. As proved by the ARES II you can put not one but two GPUs on a 120mm rad and the temps will still be fine. Is it really that surprising that a 60mm thick 280 rad at full fan speeds can handle a cpu and three cards?

 

But why would you put in 240mm of fan space of a 1CPU and 2GPU system when you can add more, and it means, that either your temps would be lower, or your fans could run at a lower speed to achieve the the same or better temps.

No,RAM and mobo blocks all get lumped in as one 'block' as in they all are in as a single 120,its not vague,just very simple.

 

The extra 120 is a good buffer for high ambient's,a heavy OC or just to make it quieter. Its surprising that a high 4.7 OC and 3 cards are all on one 280 rad...with 1000 rpm fans. Hardly leaf blowers......

You obviously didnt read the post before yours.

 

 

You dont need massive amounts of rad for a great loop,the more rad you have,the quieter the loop becomes but there is a crossover point where it becomes pointless.

 

 

 

 

And I showed you the ARES II some time ago regarding GPU's and the lack of heat input into a loop....remember the TDP debate?

[Trevtard]

The more rads the better imo, Why spend time, money and effort into building a costum loop, if u end up with bad temps and having to result in high rpm fans, witch in turn result in a very loud pc. I went watercooling mostly because of the  loud gpu fans i had.

 

I would probably go for 240 for every cpu and gpu component in the loop. the waterblocks for rams and mobo can be neglected, 

[B NEGATIVE]

The more rads the better imo, Why spend time, money and effort into building a costum loop, if u end up with bad temps and having to result in high rpm fans, witch in turn result in a very loud pc. I went watercooling mostly because of the  loud gpu fans i had.

 

I would probably go for 240 for every cpu and gpu component in the loop. the waterblocks for rams and mobo can be neglected, 

 

Another one that didnt read the link....

 

1000 rpm fans are not loud and the temps reported are,quite frankly,exceptional for the load placed on the rad.

 

So,no,no 'bad temps' and not loud either.

[Exotath]

I have two 60mm thick 360mm rads and feel they may be over kill...but... If I ever expand my hardware. The cooling is there.

I still feel I should have done two 480mm's.

[Ghost]

No,RAM and mobo blocks all get lumped in as one 'block' as in they all are in as a single 120,its not vague,just very simple.

 

The extra 120 is a good buffer for high ambient's,a heavy OC or just to make it quieter. Its surprising that a high 4.7 OC and 3 cards are all on one 280 rad...with 1000 rpm fans. Hardly leaf blowers......

You obviously didn't read the post before yours.

Well MrSuperb's post contradicts what you said, just discounting the blocks, not adding them as one 120, so...

 

Actually those fans are 140mm fans at 1207-1240RPM @ 12V at 100% PWM, therefore; maxed out. Look at all the graphs. 1200RPM is quite high for 140mm fans.

 

The post before mine was made at the same time as my post. Out of interest, why wouldn't you recommend doing what the guy does? It clearly works.

[B NEGATIVE]

Well MrSuperb's post contradicts what you said, just discounting the blocks, not adding them as one 120, so...

 

Actually those fans are 140mm fans at 1207-1240RPM @ 12V at 100% PWM, therefore; maxed out. Look at all the graphs. 1200RPM is quite high for 140mm fans.

 

The post before mine was made at the same time as my post. Out of interest, why wouldn't you recommend doing what the guy does? It clearly works.

Actually,you are wrong,they are 1000 RPM. Why the aquasuite is reporting 1200 is a mystery,the fans are 1000 RPM as specced by the manufacturer.

 

I would of thought the rad being a 280 would of indicated that the fans were 140's.....

 

http://www.cougar-world.com/products/fans/cfd_red_led_fan.html

 

Model

CF-D14HB-R

 

Marketing name

CFD140 RED LED Fan

 

Dimensions

140 x 140 x 25mm

 

Speed

1000R.P.M

 

Air flow @ 12V (CFM, m³/h)

73.18 / 124.4

 

Air pressure @ 12V (mm H2O)

1.4

 

Noise

18dB(A)

 

Bearing type

HB (Hydraulic-Bearing)

 

Connector

3pin

 

Cable length

450mm

 

Accessories

3 to 4pin adapter

 

Tool-less fixed pins

 

Fan screws

 

 

As for Mr Superb contradicting what im saying..so what? what relevance does that have? He does not add them in,I,along with many others,do add them.

[Ghost]

Actually,you are wrong,they are 1000 RPM.

 

I would of thought the rad being a 280 would of indicated that the fans were 140's.....

 

http://www.cougar-world.com/products/fans/cfd_red_led_fan.html

 

As for Mr Superb contradicting what im saying..so what? what relevance does that have? He does not add them in,I,along with many others,do add them.

 

They are very clearly 1200RPM @12V on all the results posted...

[B NEGATIVE]

Capture.GIF

 

They are very clearly 1200RPM @12V on all the results posted...

 

As previously stated,they are 1000 RPM fans,why Aquasuite is reporting those speeds is a mystery.

 

Cougar THEMSELVES say they are 1000 RPM and seeing as its their product,im more inclined to believe them.

 

 

 

 

Now,getting back to the maxed fan speeds,these are low RPM fans,if you want more fan speed then add faster fans. All of which is irrelevant to the fact that people over spec rad size.....

[Priller]

It seems that he is only loading the CPU or the GPUs but not both at the same time.

 

The GPUs are still reaching above 60C with the CPU only at 27% or so.

 

To know the true tale he needs to load the GPUs and the CPU at the same time and that is when temps will climb a good bit.

 

With Haswells and FXs liking to run hot I would not try to pull off that loop combination.

[B NEGATIVE]

It seems that he is only loading the CPU or the GPUs but not both at the same time.

 

The GPUs are still reaching above 60C with the CPU only at 27% or so.

 

To know the true tale he needs to load the GPUs and the CPU at the same time and that is when temps will climb a good bit.

 

With Haswells and FXs liking to run hot I would not try to pull off that loop combination.

 Much like RL usage...

 

I

[airdeano]

After a lengthy discussion on OCN regarding rad quantity for a loop,we came across this little gem.

 

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?p=15834219&posted=1#post15834219

 

A 3930k and 3 780's....all on a 280 rad.

 

With the ridiculous amount of rad quoted by some on this forum for a well performing loop,this will be an eye opener.

 

Just a little something to think about when you get recommendations of 360 rads for a single GPU....and reaffirmation of the rule of thumb of 120 then 120 for each block being bang on the money for a great loop that quiet.

 

Discuss.

 

yes, for a 1.2vcore (130w TDP) you can get away with a minimal radiator support.

the fans are good low speed, decent static fans (quite too.. have to look into them).

 

but reading that clocking to 1.4vcore only added 10° is not what i experienced (175w

TDP and a 22° gain), thus moving to a larger platform 360x 60 or 2x 240x 60 made

for lower temps by 12° with lower fan speeds (GT15).

 

these are some great results, but not as common as many will find. especially if the

overclock voltages (CPU/GPU) get higher. now with that said, a qualifying question to

most looking to water cool is depending on their efforts in overclocking (voltage) they

may find that their fan noise not being acceptable will have to consider larger radiator

support or different fan/fan speed config.

 

my experience with the UT60 280 or HL SR1 (using an arc mdi) 3930k/GTX 660ti

with both devices loaded i had to have 2x B-Blaster 140 @ 1800rpm (3.5mm/h2o)

to keep 1.375vcore CPU and 1.285 GPU under 78°CPU/75°GPU both loaded with

p95/heaven. moving to a 360x 60 did lower temps 66°CPU/50°GPU, but had a

1800rpm 120mm fan speed. to break into a lower 120mm fan speed i had to increase

radiator capacity/surface area. 2x 240x 60 UT radiators. same temperatures but now

fan speed is 1000rpm using GT15 fans. using low voltage overclocks do yield lower

temperatures, but most do come to qualify bawls-to-the-wall overclocking and need

more support than a single 280x 60 can provide.

 

others with far less in voltage and GPU(s) for higher overclocks from mr bean results

are getting a bit higher temperatures with higher fan speeds (albeit 120mm GT15).

[B NEGATIVE]

yes, for a 1.2vcore (130w TDP) you can get away with a minimal radiator support.

the fans are good low speed, decent static fans (quite too.. have to look into them).

 

but reading that clocking to 1.4vcore only added 10° is not what i experienced (175w

TDP and a 22° gain), thus moving to a larger platform 360x 60 or 2x 240x 60 made

for lower temps by 12° with lower fan speeds (GT15).

 

these are some great results, but not as common as many will find. especially if the

overclock voltages (CPU/GPU) get higher. now with that said, a qualifying question to

most looking to water cool is depending on their efforts in overclocking (voltage) they

may find that their fan noise not being acceptable will have to consider larger radiator

support or different fan/fan speed config.

 

my experience with the UT60 280 or HL SR1 (using an arc mdi) 3930k/GTX 660ti

with both devices loaded i had to have 2x B-Blaster 140 @ 1800rpm (3.5mm/h2o)

to keep 1.375vcore CPU and 1.285 GPU under 78°CPU/75°GPU both loaded with

p95/heaven. moving to a 360x 60 did lower temps 66°CPU/50°GPU, but had a

1800rpm 120mm fan speed. to break into a lower 120mm fan speed i had to increase

radiator capacity/surface area. 2x 240x 60 UT radiators. same temperatures but now

fan speed is 1000rpm using GT15 fans. using low voltage overclocks do yield lower

temperatures, but most do come to qualify bawls-to-the-wall overclocking and need

more support than a single 280x 60 can provide.

 

others with far less in voltage and GPU(s) for higher overclocks from mr bean results

are getting a bit higher temperatures with higher fan speeds (albeit 120mm GT15).

 

 

I agree,this is not what I would consider a good,practical loop. But,it is a great 'down to earth' bit of testing showing that even small,well thought out loops can perform great. This forum has some outlandish recommendations for rads with very simple loops,overkill when its not their money that people are spending on their recommendations.

Even rule of thumb looks like overkill when something like this pops up,its a nice dose of reality. 

 

Difference is Deano is that your CPU and GPU are mad voltaged and that gives mad heat in a non linear way,there comes a point when no amount of rads or flowrate will help you,This testing was more about the loop balancing and performance.

 

The sheer amount of kit he has being cooled by that single rad is amazing,not the actual temps of the components.