Newbie to Custom Loop - Help appreciated in terms of planning

[KyoudaiKen]

Hey people!

 

I am currently running a Threadripper 1950X on 1.375V LLC Level 3 on 4GHz on all cores and after my Enermax Liquitech TR4 II died due to corrosion problems after just 3(!!) months, I decided that it might be a bit more urgent to take a look at a custom loop cooling solution. With the above settings, the CPU runs stable but consumes up to 310W power, with seldom peaks of 320W when AVX is involved. Obviously, this is very hard to cool. I use Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut of course.

 

It is planned to upgrade to a 16 core version of the Zen2 Threadripper and hopefully be able to run it near or equal to 5 GHz on all cores or even faster, depending on what AMD will deliver this year!

 

So here is my question:

 

1. Case:

• I plan a custom cuboid 550x550x550mm (inside measurements) case, where I have 4x200mm fans or 9x 140mm fans on the bottom, depending on what is better and on what I can get my hands on more easily. The case will stand on 5cm / 2 inches long feet for best airflow. The radiator should be mounted on the back at the bottom blowing outwards at the back of the case. The motherboard shall be mounted in the middle of the case horizontally as opposed to vertically. And then on the top of the case there are more fans for exhaust to cool Motherboard, VRM and GPU(s) using the cool air sucked in from the bottom of the case. Is that a good thermal design or a total failure? I can provide sketches of it if needed.

1. Custom Loop:
   1. What do I need for a good custom loop that is easily able to dissipate up to 400W of heat from the and bring the CPU down to near ambient?
   2. Is there any commercial solution for sub-ambient cooling, where I can keep the water at 21°C although it's like 30°C in my room in Summer and does something like this even exist yet?
   3. What do you guy recommend for parts?
   4. What radiator is able to dissipate more than 500W?
   5. Is it a good idea to put several radiators in series or parallel?
   6. What is the maximum heat dissipation that I could achieve with a custom loop without having to sell a kidney?
   7. How do I avoid leaking and what precautions can I prepare to avoid my system from dying when there's water leakage?

 

I'm from Germany, so I will have to check if the stuff you suggest is even available here.

 

Thank you and make sure to have yourself a great day!

[zombienerd]

17 minutes ago, KyoudaiKen said:

Is there any commercial solution for sub-ambient cooling, where I can keep the water at 21°C although it's like 30°C in my room in Summer and does something like this even exist yet?

This is a really bad idea for a daily-driver PC.  Anything Sub-ambient will create condensation, no matter how well you prepare for that eventuality.  

 

18 minutes ago, KyoudaiKen said:

Is it a good idea to put several radiators in series or parallel?

Always Series, or do separate loops for each component.  Parallel radiators are not a good idea, as then you're introducing gravity and other fluid dynamics into the equation that may leave a radiator practically unused while another is overused.

 

 

[KyoudaiKen]

Yes, condensation was also my concern but when the water is still kept at 21°C it should not be a big deal, since summers and especially winters here are extremely dry. Never came over 67% humidity in the room where I use my PC. The dew point will be much, much lower than 21°C. So it should be fine, this way. This is also why I don't want to supercool the water which is also a waste of energy, I believe. I wouldn't benefit much from it, condensation is a problem and I will need another 1200W PSU for this...

 

When putting it in series and putting them back to back, it is better to let the warm water come in in the outer most radiator where the air comes out, then when it's cooler going into the backpacked rad? This way the back radiator warms up the air much less before it reaches the outer most rad where the air comes out of the case. In theory, this should be more efficient, is that correct?

 

Any suggestion for components for my setup?

 

Thanks for the Tips, I am currently reading the Water cooling 101 pinned, too!

[joshuawi99]

First off I suggest you to watch the watercooling guide videos from JaysTwoCents. He really explains all the needs and myths about this whole topic. Generally buy from a well known brand that is available in your region. Me myself i always buy from EK Waterblocks. They have a very user friendly website and exeptionally good support. I never had a problem with them and they will treat you nice. I would advise you to make a list with all the watercooling components you choose and then you can post them in this thread. So we can have a look. Isn´t 1.375V a little high for a first gen threadripper?   You will at least need a 360 rad to make it reasonable quiet without a GPU.

[KyoudaiKen]

Thanks Josh!

 

Yep, it is. But I can't get this chip stable at less when loading it. Also I needed to up the load line calibration level to 3. This is why it peaks at 320W at Linpack for Ryzen and after few seconds the system shut off.

 

I used an Enermax Liquitech TR4 II 360mm. At the beginning in November 2018 before everything clogged up inside due to corrosion, I could run Prime95 FMA max heat for 1 hour without getting even near 70°C. Last Friday after cleaning up cable management it went so worse that it even throttled at stock! I have initiated RMA right now and Enermax is aware of the problem. I may get the fixed v2 version of the cooler. Still I can see that on AVX code it's still not enough.

 

I am currently reading the Water Cooling 101 thread, but only stuff I think I don't already know. The OC Wattage calculator comes very handy and I am currently checking what the forumula will spit out for me. Then I may watch JayZ video!

[Bananasplit_00]

1: i would probably use a coupple of 420mm radiators, more rads is more better tho

2: There are phase change solutions but they are loud as all hell and require quite a bit of insulation of the components

3: Watercool Heatkiller IV blocks, XSPC rads(there are probably better ones, im not that good on rads), bitspower fittings. Mayhems ultra clear if you want soft tube.

4: a very big one  

5: loop order dosnt matter. anyone who says it does dosnt understand watercooling.

6: not sure how much a kidny is worth where you live so no idea. 

7: leak test everything before plugging in the PSU, build the loop and put papper towel everywhere there is a connection, fill the loop and check if any of them are wet. tighten all of the ones that are leeking and check again. repeat untill done. using a good coolant or distilled water would keep the worst of the damage away but it wont absolutely save it as the coolant will pick up metal from the rads and blocks over time.

[KyoudaiKen]

7 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

1: i would probably use a coupple of 420mm radiators, more rads is more better tho

2: There are phase change solutions but they are loud as all hell and require quite a bit of insulation of the components

3: Watercool Heatkiller IV blocks, XSPC rads(there are probably better ones, im not that good on rads), bitspower fittings. Mayhems ultra clear if you want soft tube.

4: a very big one  

5: loop order dosnt matter. anyone who says it does dosnt understand watercooling.

6: not sure how much a kidny is worth where you live so no idea. 

7: leak test everything before plugging in the PSU, build the loop and put papper towel everywhere there is a connection, fill the loop and check if any of them are wet. tighten all of the ones that are leeking and check again. repeat untill done. using a good coolant or distilled water would keep the worst of the damage away but it wont absolutely save it as the coolant will pick up metal from the rads and blocks over time.

Really? I do need at least 2 420 rads or even more to cool this beast and the next TR 3950X? Can I backpack all of them together with occasional fans in-between? I don't want a much bigger case than I originally planned.

 

I could get 250k USD for selling a kidney according to DuckDuckGo.

 

Thanks for the safety tips!

[KyoudaiKen]

25 minutes ago, KyoudaiKen said:

5: loop order dosnt matter. anyone who says it does dosnt understand watercooling. 

Oh, can you explain why? My proposed order seems logical to me for more efficient dissipation, because otherwise the air will be already warm which goes through the back to back radiators.

[Bananasplit_00]

1 hour ago, KyoudaiKen said:

Really? I do need at least 2 420 rads or even more to cool this beast and the next TR 3950X? Can I backpack all of them together with occasional fans in-between? I don't want a much bigger case than I originally planned.

 

I could get 250k USD for selling a kidney according to DuckDuckGo.

 

Thanks for the safety tips!

You don't NEED dual 420 rads, that's just what I'd do. My system has a 240 crap rad and a decent 360, draws ~400W overclocked and while the CPU goes to mid 70s the GPU stays at like 32c under combined load which is about 12c over ambient air temp. 

 

For the loop order this is a good reference:

 

 

[zombienerd]

1 hour ago, KyoudaiKen said:

Oh, can you explain why? My proposed order seems logical to me for more efficient dissipation, because otherwise the air will be already warm which goes through the back to back radiators.

A cooling system is just that:  a system.  The order in which the flow happens does not matter, because eventually the system will saturate and reach equilibrium.  

 

Your fan configuration and airflow can matter, (positive vs negative pressure, vs intakes/exhausts) but the order in which the coolant flows does not, as they will all soak eventually.

[KyoudaiKen]

I see. 70°C is too high for AMD Threadripper, so I will need two. That is still quite possible to do. Can I backpack those? Do I need fans between both rads, so 6 fans? GPU(s) will stay air cooled, cause with the huge coolers they have these days it's more than enough when you have good case airflow and if you mount them far from eachother using PCIe extensions.

 

Glad my Arduino Nano based fan controller has 8 fans each channel (4 channels). I will post this project here soon!

 

Will watch the video, soon. I first have to concentrate on my case, though. Critique about my case design in the original post is highly appreciated!

 

Thanks and have a nice day!

 

[Tristerin]

1 hour ago, zombienerd said:

 

 

Always Series, or do separate loops for each component.  Parallel radiators are not a good idea, as then you're introducing gravity and other fluid dynamics into the equation that may leave a radiator practically unused while another is overused.

 

 

Not trying to hijack the thread, but Im also building a custom loop with 2x240mm and 1x120mm rads...I was told it didn't matter, repeatedly, the loop order.  Can you help me better understand this statement above?  My thoughts were to run pump/res combo -> CPU -> 240mm rad -> GPU1 -> GPU2 -> 120mm rad - > 240mm rad -> pump/res -> CPU (rinse repeat)  Can you send me a message or reply?  Sorry I just want to understand...all my stuff is currently in transit from china.

[KyoudaiKen]

1 minute ago, zombienerd said:

A cooling system is just that:  a system.  The order in which the flow happens does not matter, because eventually the system will saturate and reach equilibrium.  

 

Your fan configuration and airflow can matter, (positive vs negative pressure, vs intakes/exhausts) but the order in which the coolant flows does not, as they will all soak eventually.

Great, so I hope my case design with positive pressure will help. Also there will only be PSU warmth going through the CPU rad(s), nothing else.

[KyoudaiKen]

3 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

all my stuff is currently in transit from china.

Then I am afraid it's too late anyway. Returning to china is expensive. Also it may take ages, cause of Cina's New Year.

[zombienerd]

6 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Not trying to hijack the thread, but Im also building a custom loop with 2x240mm and 1x120mm rads...I was told it didn't matter, repeatedly, the loop order.  Can you help me better understand this statement above?  My thoughts were to run pump/res combo -> CPU -> 240mm rad -> GPU1 -> GPU2 -> 120mm rad - > 240mm rad -> pump/res -> CPU (rinse repeat)  Can you send me a message or reply?  Sorry I just want to understand...all my stuff is currently in transit from china.

This is what we mean by series vs parallel.  You want your radiators to be in series with each other, one behind the other.  In parallel, your pump would feed both radiators at the same time.  Depending on how it's configured (for example, one rad in the front of case, and one on top), if you fed them in parallel, the top radiator would most likely get zero flow as gravity would favor the front mounted one.

In this diagram, the two smaller boxes are the pump/reservoir (interchangable)

[Tristerin]

Just now, KyoudaiKen said:

Then I am afraid it's too late anyway. Returning to china is expensive. Also it may take ages, cause of Cina's New Year.

Oh no I want it and will create my Frankenstein loop that isn't the problem...I was just curious on his statement of parallel radiator orders (or maybe I read it wrong) - my loop will happen, I just want to assemble once if possible lol

[KyoudaiKen]

@Tristerin Alright, I got it. With parallel you get a pressure problem, like @zombienerd described.

@zombienerd Thanks for the explanation!

[KyoudaiKen]

I presume this needs STRONG fans and can't run quiet?

https://geizhals.de/alphacool-nexxxos-monsta-360-35221-14182-a768748.html?hloc=at&hloc=de