Why can't Motherboard manufacturers get Fancontrol right?

[Majestic]

So I recently upgraded my Haswell system to a new Ryzen platform, using a 2600X and a B450i ROG STRIX motherboard from ASUS. And to my dismay I found out that speedfan is not supporting this chipset or it's sensory data.

I've been using that utility for years, since it was a free utility, that offered a featureset that even paid software couldn't remotely rival. I liked it so much i've sent the creator a few donations over the years.

 

Now sadly I was stuck using the ROG STRIX Bios for fancontrol and oh dear.... Motherboard partners haven't changed or improved a single damn thing since my previous board, a 2013 Z87i Gaming AC from MSI. To illustrate just how lacking their software is.

 

Let me list you some of the features of Speedfan 4.52, and then after that, what the ROG Strix (and yes this includes their AIsuite3) offers. 

- Set static Fanspeeds

- Setup a fancontrol for each seperate fanport, based on whatever sensory data you have available. (IE. set up casefans based on GPU, or mainboard, not just CPU).

- Setup fancontrol that offers a MAX of SUM of speeds on the same fanport, with multiple sensory streams. (IE, set up casefans based on CPU + mainboard+ GPU, whichever is the hottest, or combined for cooling based on predicted TDP. So 12% for the CPU, 15% for the GPU, 10% for mainboard = 37%).

- Setup a 16-point accurate responsecuve for whichever fan controller point you want, including all mentioned above, with a specific hysteresis per sensory datapoint (so you can set 5degrees for CPU, 2degrees for GPU on the same fan). Hysteresis being a setting whereby the temperature has to reach a certain delta before it changes rpm. So the fans won't constantly wobble between 2 datapoints.

 

 

- Use delta-stepping for control curves. Whereby the program follows the curve you've setup via a moving average filter. So you can, F.E. set it to 2%/sec delta, meaning every update interval instead of directly following the curve which is set for the specific fan+sensor, it will slowly follow it over-time. So if your CPU fancurve is set 30% at 40 degrees, and 70% at 80 degrees, and it goes to 70 degrees for 2 seconds, the fancurve only changes by 2*2% = 4% max. And not ramp up and down between 30% and 65% in 2 seconds. This is not only annoying to hear in the background, this also wears out fans super fast, as you get precession forces in the bearings which is their biggest wear factor (other than plain use ofc).

- Temperature warnings for every datapoint, and a failsafe whereby fans ramp to 100% if something overheats.

- Does not have arbitary min. fan RPM blocks to prevent you from setting it to low and risk overheating something. As in, it provides the warning at the start but respects your intelligence from that point on. 

- Change fan control from DC to PWM if applicable, meaning you can revert it back to BIOS setting, use a DC controller or PWM controller (IE for example for setting AIO pump speeds, which are predominantly DC controlled). 

 

Now let's look at what this $150 motherboard shipped with....

 

A 3-point, CPU-only barebones response curve. That offers no delta stepping, delays or hysteresis in it's update cycle. So every time the CPU does anything and it increases in temperature (even with the flat section i've added to elleviate this), the fans go with it. Absolutely unacceptable lack of decent software. Instead of turning every motherboard in a christmas tree, they should ask Alfredo Milani Comparetti from Almico how to properly provide their customers fan control software.

 

Cuz...

[r2724r16]

4 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Now let's look at what this $150 motherboard shipped with....

That's pretty depressing.

[Constantin]

Asus have a very good software (fanxepert 2 or 3).

And you can set as many points as you like if this is your problem....

[Majestic]

2 minutes ago, r2724r16 said:

That's pretty depressing.

It is.

*fans ramp up in the background*

Just now, Constantin said:

Asus have a very good software (fanxepert 2 or 3).

And you can set as many points as you like if this is your problem....

I've looked at that, it's part of their AIsuite, and it offers not much more than this. Certainly no delta steps, or multiple-sensor fancurves.

 

[keskparane]

Argus Monitor

[Constantin]

9 minutes ago, Majestic said:

It is.

*fans ramp up in the background*

I've looked at that, it's part of their AIsuite, and it offers not much more than this. Certainly no delta steps, or multiple-sensor fancurves.

Clearly you don't know how to use it, i use to have it and YES you can set multiple points!!!

 

6 minutes ago, Constantin said:

Clearly you don't know how to use it, i use to have it and YES you can set multiple points!!!

And you dont have to install the complete Suite, just install the FanXpert

[Majestic]

1 minute ago, Constantin said:

Clearly you don't know how to use it, i use to have it and YES you can set multiple points!!!

multiple datastreams. IE set casefans based on CPU, GPU and mainboard for example (under a max of speeds or sum of speeds principle). Not points on the curve.

[Constantin]

Just now, Majestic said:

multiple datastreams. IE set casefans based on CPU, GPU and mainboard for example. Not points on the curve.

Only CPU and as many case fans have the Mobo

[Majestic]

Just now, Constantin said:

Only CPU and as many case fans have the Mobo

CPU is a terrible datapoint to use for fanspeeds espcially today. Packages get smaller, meaning the temperatures will become more erratic.

Hence you need to create a TDP based model based on multiple factors (inside case temp, GPU temp, CPU temp), average it and put a hysteresis/delta on it, to prevent it from spiking.

 

This is something you can do in speedfan, and something you can't using FanXpert, or the BIOS software. Did I mention Speedfan is free?

[homeap5]

Do you really need 20 points to control fan spin? It's only fan - it spins faster or slower, nothing more. It is not a device that needs complex settings. Sometimes less options is better.

[Majestic]

Just now, homeap5 said:

Do you really need 20 points to control fan spin? It's only fan - it spins faster or slower, nothing more. It is not a device that needs complex settings.

Well if you don't want it constantly ramping up/down and not wear out quick, yes. But the 16point controlcurve isn't the main feature I miss.

[DJ46]

I started using Speedfan when I first mounted 120mm fans on my GPU. It was the only way I could control the fans on my GPU based on its temperature even though they were plugged into the motherboard.

It isn't easy to set up the first time, but once you understand everything BOY is it powerful.

 

Just like you I'm mad at the level of fan control we get these days. I'm terrified of upgrading to a new platform because of it. I remember when even Haswell wasn't supported and I basically gritted my teeth until Speedfan was updated.

 

Even the fan headers we get suck. My mITX board only has 2 - a CPU_fan header and a sys_fan header. Both are 4pin.

Imagine my surprise when I found out that a CPU_fan header based on Intel spec doesn't support voltage control. Of course I only found out after I got rid of a very nice 3pin fan because it ran full speed all the time. So if I want to use 3 NF-P12s (and I do), I have to use two Y splitters, with one plugged into the other.

 

When it comes to GPU temp based fan control I like what Asus is doing with their Strix GPUs, but that still doesn't help with controlling case fans with CPU and GPU temps at the same time.

 

Also, I was mad that I'll lose Speedfan with any future upgrade even before you reminded me of the hysteresis and delta settings. I forgot how much of a difference they made.

[Majestic]

@DJ46 Haswell ... with it's FIVR. Temperatures spiking from 30 to 80 within seconds. It's single-handedly forced me to speedfan.

[Majestic]

2 hours ago, keskparane said:

Argus Monitor

I'm trying this now, looks decent so far. Not happy about the fact it's a license, not a one-time purchase. But ill still gladly part with 8 euro/year to get rid of this awful fan controller ASUS provided.

[keskparane]

4 hours ago, Majestic said:

I'm trying this now, looks decent so far. Not happy about the fact it's a license, not a one-time purchase. But ill still gladly part with 8 euro/year to get rid of this awful fan controller ASUS provided.

Is a one time purchase. In fact I recommend only getting 1 year. Only need renew licence if want to upgrade version after licence expires.

[_Hustler_One_]

Then you must have not used any MSI motherboard I assume. All MSI motherboard has windows utility called "MSI Command Center" which allow us to OC and control any fans in windows without entering BIOS. I'm opened this utility while I was typing this post just to show you that not all the motherboard manufacturer doesn't have fan controller software, MSI offer what you need..

 

[Kc7vwc]

Just to play devil's advocate, I have fans that I've been using (Cougar, Corsair) since 2012 with MSI & Asus boards from that same year that are doing just fine. No noise, no grinding. And when they ramp up, it's because I just started a heavy load & the system needs it. 

These include PWM & 3pin. 

 

Glad you know what you want & how to get it, but IMO that's 100% overkill, when the Mobo software had been doing it just fine for half a decade. 

PS, Asus's new GPU's have fan headers on the card so you can use the GPU as the controller. 

[Majestic]

40 minutes ago, Kc7vwc said:

Just to play devil's advocate, I have fans that I've been using (Cougar, Corsair) since 2012 with MSI & Asus boards from that same year that are doing just fine. No noise, no grinding. And when they ramp up, it's because I just started a heavy load & the system needs it. 

These include PWM & 3pin. 

 

Glad you know what you want & how to get it, but IMO that's 100% overkill, when the Mobo software had been doing it just fine for half a decade. 

PS, Asus's new GPU's have fan headers on the card so you can use the GPU as the controller. 

Fans ramping up when it starts load is bullshit, because it hasn't generated any heat yet. Fans and heatsinks don't work that way. It just makes an excessive amount of noise, doesn't properly control actual heat build-up over time, and it DOES cause extra wear on fans, even if they still manage to hold on for years still. Which is why the software is poorly made, and in half a decade they could've made something decent to ship with their boards.

 

Not sure what compelled you to write this comment. Who is ever interested in "I have no issues with X" comments? Literally noone. No offense...

 

1 hour ago, _Hustler_One_ said:

Then you must have not used any MSI motherboard I assume. All MSI motherboard has windows utility called "MSI Command Center" which allow us to OC and control any fans in windows without entering BIOS. I'm opened this utility while I was typing this post just to show you that not all the motherboard manufacturer doesn't have fan controller software, MSI offer what you need..

I can clearly see from the screenshot it has nothing more than what my ASUS board shipped with. So either you haven't read my post, or it went a little over your head.

[_Hustler_One_]

9 minutes ago, Majestic said:

I can clearly see from the screenshot it has nothing more than what my ASUS board shipped with. So either you haven't read my post, or it went a little over your head.

Aaaahhh... My bad..

[Mick Naughty]

Don’t see the point of doing so much in the bios. Ai suite controls my fans just fine. Not like I need much control. 

 

Wouldnt expect much from a $150 board. 

 

Mine has a aio header but not one for temp. Won’t be buying cheap again. 

[Majestic]

8 hours ago, Mick Naughty said:

Don’t see the point of doing so much in the bios. Ai suite controls my fans just fine. Not like I need much control. 

 

Wouldnt expect much from a $150 board. 

 

Mine has a aio header but not one for temp. Won’t be buying cheap again. 

Agreed $150 isn't an expensive board, but their X470 board has the exact same PCB, just with a X470 chipset. And I don't expect the software suite to be any better than on mine. And It has three PWM controlled headers, it's enough for me.

 

And I do need the control, the 2600X is pretty spikey when it comes to temperatures. Direct fancontrol to it's coretemp means the fans are ramping up and down the whole time it's on. It's not even remotely do-able. 

[Mick Naughty]

3 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Agreed $150 isn't an expensive board, but their X470 board has the exact same PCB, just with a X470 chipset. And I don't expect the software suite to be any better than on mine. And It has three PWM controlled headers, it's enough for me.

 

And I do need the control, the 2600X is pretty spikey when it comes to temperatures. Direct fancontrol to it's coretemp means the fans are ramping up and down the whole time it's on. It's not even remotely do-able. 

Pretty sure ai suite offers a spin up and down time. Keeps that from happening. Not having the fans ramp up till a much higher temp makes that even easier. 

[Majestic]

4 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Pretty sure ai suite offers a spin up and down time. Keeps that from happening. Not having the fans ramp up till a much higher temp makes that even easier. 

No it offers a reaction delay. But all this does is extend the polling time to 5.5, 7.7 sec etc. Meaning if it polls at a peak, it will stay ramped up till the next period. It won't prevent the system from constantly ramping up/down. It does not average, and it doesn't have a delta-stepping feature. 

 

Having to do this with a hysteresis alone is also not really a nice way to do it. Because it will either do too much, or too little.