Improving cooling performance

[WIGs]

Hello,

 

I am not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I hope that you will be able to help me. I am a beginner builder (using laptops before) and I am solving some issues with my current build. I have recently swapped a 1060 card for an MSI 1080Ti Gaming X (280W TDP in stock) and I started to have slight issues with thermals (or, perhaps the thermals are okayish, but still, I would be more comfortable if they were a bit lower as these would allow me to either run my fans at slower speeds for quieter operation if necessary (I sleep next to the computer), or provide more headroom for better overclocking potential.

 

My build is (see the picture below):

• i7 8700K (stock multipliers, no multicore enhancement, 0.1V negative Vcore offset) cooled by Scythe Ninja 4 (almost sufficient to cool it passively)
• MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming X (currently without an overclock)
• Asus TUF Z370-PRO
• FD Define C with 2x SilentWings 3 140mm front intake, 1x SilentWings 3 120mm rear exhaust and closed top cover (I have recently experimented with an additional 120mm fan loosely placed on top of the PSU shroud which I found to help with GPU thermals a bit, ~4C difference)

After 30 minutes of Furmark (4K, 8x MSAA) which I guess stresses only the GPU (front fans running at 900RPM, the rear fan at 1200RPM), the GPU temperature gets to 73C, its backplate is really hot to touch and it seems that the area between the GPU and the large tower cooler seems not to be well ventilated (see the picture below). I am wondering whether there is a way to decrease the temperatures while keeping or even reducing the noise level. It is very important for me to have the build near silent at low to moderate load (e.g., CPU stressed only, and/or GPU utilized at 50% of its TDP) as I sometimes keep my computer running overnight and I am trying to sleep next to it  But, obviously, keeping the computer cool under heavy gaming load is of equal importance to me (I would love to apply some overclock for such situations, but I am afraid that in the current situation, I would cook my computer if I do so unless I crank up the fans to full speed).

 

My idle temps are around 30C for both CPU and GPU. The bottom M.2 drive runs at 25C, the one in between GPU and CPU cooler runs hotter between 35C and 42C.

 

So far I was considering these options:

1. Liquid cooling my GPU (most likely with Kraken G12 + X62 combo): Probably the best option I guess, but I am afraid of losing the warranty on my card (I still have almost 3 years of warranty left). I have read mixed statements about the warranty of MSI cards when an aftermarket cooler is installed. I have mostly read that it should be OK with MSI on the forums, but when I contacted MSI directly, I have been told that any modification to the card is about to make the warranty void (but based on the brevity and poor quality of the reply, I was wondering whether the representative just wanted to get rid of me). Do you have any experience with the application of aftermarket cooling to MSI cards and warranty, please? (I am from the EU)
2. Getting a larger case: My current case is quite small (there is little space below and it is also narrow so the GPU blows the air directly to the side panel). My reasoning is that if I get a larger case (I have been looking at beQuiet Dark Base 900), there will be more room for the graphics card to breathe. Furthermore, I would be able to install a proper fan at the bottom of the case to bring even more fresh air for the card. I know that the Dark Base 900 is probably not the best case for the thermals, but I hope that it should still be better than my current Define C case if I fit it with 6 fans (I would have when combining the ones I have now with those I get with the case) - and it should match my goal of silent operation in lighter loads.
3. Moving the graphics card to the second slot (if I get a larger case): I know that this is not generally recommended for optimal performance, but I read that the performance should be similar in an x8 PCIe 3.0 slot. This would create more room between the graphics card and the Ninja 4 cooler - hopefully making it easier to eliminate the pocket of hot air between the graphics card and the tower cooler. (+ I am not sure about this, but I guess that the Ninja 4 cooler blows the air also towards the graphics card, thus making it even harder for the hot air to escape?)
4. Liquid cooling my CPU: The idea behind this is similar to idea 3. The absence of the tower cooler should hopefully allow the hot air from the GPU area to escape more easily. But I am not sure if the impact would be significant (especially since I do not have many radiator mounting options in my small case - I guess that I would be able to mount the radiator only to the front).
5. Something else?

 

Please let me know whether you have some ideas that could improve the cooling my build without making it loud, or whether you have any comments to my ideas. Thanks a lot!

[wojtepanik]

side mounted fan on the side of the case is your friend

[Jurrunio]

73C is totally fine.... Touch is a bad measurement of temperature considering humans find 70C too hot to touch while hardware feel comfortable at that temperature.

[WIGs]

37 minutes ago, wojtepanik said:

side mounted fan on the side of the case is your friend

Unfortunately, my case does not support side-mounted case fans (and actually, the GPU and the tower cooler are so close to the side panel (there is a gap of roughly 1 cm) that the installation of the fan would have been impossible, if I modded my case). The Dark Base 900 case, I am considering, should allow for the installation of side fans, though.

34 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

73C is totally fine.... Touch is a bad measurement of temperature considering humans find 70C too hot to touch while hardware feel comfortable at that temperature.

I know, it just makes me a bit uncomfortable. Actually, the GPU temperature goes up to 78C in some games (especially without the fan placed on top of the PSU shroud, which is somewhat a ghetto solution). I guess this is still more than fine, but the GPU Boost already starts decreasing the frequencies with default TDP and temperature targets (and there seems to be little to no room for overclocking the GPU). Another concern of mine is that the system gets pretty noisy then (the GPU fans goes up to 85% which is already more than noticeable). However, noise in such a heavy load is not such a big problem for me, since these typically occur only when gaming - when I have headphones.

 

Thanks!

[For Science!]

5 minutes ago, WIGs said:

-

Don't know how far you're willing to go for silence, but I got into custom watercooling to get a silent build in the Define C too. Given what you've written above, I think a hybrid cooler on your MSI card and just live with the fact you will not have warranty would be my choice of action.

[Jurrunio]

4 minutes ago, WIGs said:

I know, it just makes me a bit uncomfortable. Actually, the GPU temperature goes up to 78C in some games (especially without the fan placed on top of the PSU shroud, which is somewhat a ghetto solution). I guess this is still more than fine, but the GPU Boost already starts decreasing the frequencies with default TDP and temperature targets (and there seems to be little to no room for overclocking the GPU). Another concern of mine is that the system gets pretty noisy then (the GPU fans goes up to 85% which is already more than noticeable). However, noise in such a heavy load is not such a big problem for me, since these typically occur only when gaming - when I have headphones.

 

redoing the thermal paste job can help with that, stock paste are not as good as it could have been as always.

 

Otherwise you can start playing with the voltage/frequency graph in Afterburner so you give the GPU nearly the least amount of voltage it needs to run stable at each frequency. That can also help with temps if you don't aim to go faster than it currently does

[WIGs]

28 minutes ago, For Science! said:

Don't know how far you're willing to go for silence, but I got into custom watercooling to get a silent build in the Define C too. Given what you've written above, I think a hybrid cooler on your MSI card and just live with the fact you will not have warranty would be my choice of action.

Well, I am willing to go quite far when it comes to silence. Not sure, if I would go for a custom loop due to price/compatibility issues (I have seen EKWB A320G kit for a reasonable price, but the non-reference design of my card is likely not supported. The full custom loop from EKWB would cost me some 650 euro which is a bit over what I am willing to spend - although, should the parts last for long, I would probably consider that as well). The hybrid cooler would find me paying 150 euro, which would have been perfect.

 

What makes me uneasy is really just the warranty issue (it is almost a new card for 650 euro). I will probably try to find RMA rates for this particular model. Anyway, if there was any other way to improve the situation without voiding the warranty, I would definitely prefer that one.

 

Thanks!

 

24 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

redoing the thermal paste job can help with that, stock paste are not as good as it could have been as always.

 

Otherwise you can start playing with the voltage/frequency graph in Afterburner so you give the GPU nearly the least amount of voltage it needs to run stable at each frequency. That can also help with temps if you don't aim to go faster than it currently does

Unfortunately, according to the MSI representative, redoing the thermal paste on the GPU would make me lose the warranty as well  I actually asked for this explicitly, and they told me to bring the card to the store to change the paste, quoting: You may contact the store for support if ever needed to apply thermal paste, if you change the sink, or open the card,  then thus not covered under manufacturer´s.

 

I already tried playing with the voltage curve a bit, and it did not seem to have major impact. I haven't tried much, though, and I will give it a shot once again. Thanks a lot for suggestion! (I completely forgot about this option now.)

Edited December 16, 2018 by WIGs

[WIGs]

1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

Otherwise you can start playing with the voltage/frequency graph in Afterburner so you give the GPU nearly the least amount of voltage it needs to run stable at each frequency. That can also help with temps if you don't aim to go faster than it currently does

I quickly tested setting some voltage curve and it helped a bit (roughly increasing the frequencies by 50 MHz and maxing the frequency at 1923 MHz). The GPU temperature (under standard fan curve) dropped to 70C while fan was running only at 57% (compared to 65% previously). I probably made some mistake setting the curve as the frequency got reduced (from 1911 MHz to 1898 MHz) but that is not something that should play a major role in the temperatures. I will definitely play with the curve more to improve the thermals in this way. Thanks!

 

Nevertheless, if there is a more radical way to further improve the situation (i.e., requiring me to buy something), I will be happy to give it a try anyway. I would like to make it as good as possible. After all, every degree and every percent of fan speeds help quite a lot when it comes to noise emissions  

[LogicalDrm]

20 hours ago, WIGs said:

Actually, the GPU temperature goes up to 78C in some games (especially without the fan placed on top of the PSU shroud, which is somewhat a ghetto solution). I guess this is still more than fine, but the GPU Boost already starts decreasing the frequencies with default TDP and temperature targets (and there seems to be little to no room for overclocking the GPU).

 

78C is still fine. My old GTX780 reference goes to 82C with limited fan speed (because of too much noise for performance gain).

 

18 hours ago, WIGs said:

Nevertheless, if there is a more radical way to further improve the situation (i.e., requiring me to buy something), I will be happy to give it a try anyway. I would like to make it as good as possible. After all, every degree and every percent of fan speeds help quite a lot when it comes to noise emissions  

Removing PSU shroud and having bottom intake would do wonders. I don't know if thats possible in your case without modding. PSU shrouds are nice to look at, but they are possibly worst part of modern cases in terms of GPU temps.

[WIGs]

7 hours ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

 

78C is still fine. My old GTX780 reference goes to 82C with limited fan speed (because of too much noise for performance gain).

Glad to hear that. I will try decreasing the fan speeds to see whether I can sustain such temperatures with less noise (currently, the GPU gets really noisy when it nears 78C mark).

7 hours ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

Removing PSU shroud and having bottom intake would do wonders. I don't know if thats possible in your case without modding. PSU shrouds are nice to look at, but they are possibly worst part of modern cases in terms of GPU temps.

I am afraid that my case does not support removing the PSU shroud (but I will double check that). I read about the negative impact of the PSU shroud and this is one of the reasons why I am considering the Dark Base 900 case (as its older revision does not have PSU shroud, or it is at least removable).

 

Actually, if I get that case, I am thinking of going for inverted layout. I have seen a review showing that the inversion led to the 2-3C decrease in temperatures (for both the CPU and GPU). Plus it gives some opportunities to try unusual fan configuration to experiment with (like top intakes directly blowing air to the GPU fans, which would have been otherwise impossible due to the PSU placement).

 

If this makes sense, I think I will go with the case first. I can still drop in liquid cooling of the GPU later on (when at least less of the warranty will be remaining), and I guess it will be easier for a beginner to start with liquid cooling in a larger case.

 

Thank you!