Question in regard to mining

[xamo1988]

Hello everyone,

 

I hope I'll be posting in the right category as I'm new here.

 

I'm looking toward making some extra money through mining but being new in this I was wondering if it actually was worth it. As far as I understand it, it's also a question of balance as to what you spend in comparison to what you earn (with the electric bill for instance) but I'm currently living in a work apt in which I'm not paying the electricity.

 

So my question is, would it be worth it in my situation to buy, or build a system specifically for the purpose of mining? And if so, what would you say my first investment would be in order to build something efficient?

 

I hope that these questions won't break any rules, and if they do I'm sorry.

 

Thank you for your time,

 

 

[Hip]

If you want to mine you should be ready to invest at least 3k for a decent mining rig or a Antminer S9.

I would rather buy a Antminer S9, but its very loud and that's probably not what you should have living in a apartment. I'd rather invest in the currency of your choice than mining on your own.

[xamo1988]

Investing that much, while maybe some more wouldn't be an issue for me so long as in the mid, or long run I'm able to get the money back while making a benefit.

 

So you'd say that in my situation mining isn't worth it?

[Nicnac]

if you are not paying the electricity and it's not overly hot where you live, sure why not. Most people hate mining (me included) because it drives up the cost for components but if you wanna do it on the side you are free to do so. It kind of depends on your apartment. do you have a separate room for mining? because otherwise it is going to get pretty loud. If you just want to do it for the fun snag like 3-4 good gpus and put them in a rig that you don;t mind running 24/7

 

[Hip]

22 minutes ago, xamo1988 said:

Investing that much, while maybe some more wouldn't be an issue for me so long as in the mid, or long run I'm able to get the money back while making a benefit.

 

So you'd say that in my situation mining isn't worth it?

If I were you I'd rather keep my fingers off of mining at least if you do not plan to invest a huge amount of your money to generate a great income.

But I think that especially Bitcoin and Ethereum are a great investment.

So rather buy some BTC or ETH and hodl ;-)

[xamo1988]

Hello Nicnac,

 

As you said it would be something to do on the side, to let run, and not pay much attention to it. I could probably find an extra room and yes I won't be paying the electricity but it does get quite hot in the summer here. As I said though I don't want to waste money on something that wouldn't give me back something so I'm guessing I have to do things carefully. What kind of specs would you suggest for something that would generate a decent payback?

 

Hip,

 

Thank you again for your reply. What do you call a huge amount of money? How much, to you would it take to make mining profitable?

[alextheaverage]

I wouldn't buy hardware at the moment because the market is so volatile, but if you already have a rig you just have siting idle you might be able to make a couple bucks a day.  Beer money not an income but it's still something.

[Canada EH]

13 hours ago, Nicnac said:

Most people hate mining

no not most, and not all, just a few

[FireClawGames]

If you'd like some information on ASICs vs GPU rigs, this is what I've gathered from the research I've done.

 

ASICs normally have a really short ROI when launched, but then revenue tends to drop off quickly as the network increases difficulty. ASICs can be scams, delivered too slowly and become outdated by the time it arrives due to more rapid development, and other times test a coin's community and could cause the coin to crash. ASICs are typically for a hash function and maybe some similar ones. ASICs cost typically less than a GPU rig.

GPU rigs typically have a slower ROI, but profitability is more stable. It would be very rare for you to be scammed with a GPU and it'd much easier to get a refund in that case and GPU innovation is much slower in comparison to ASICs. GPU mining can handle a ton of different hash functions. A decent GPU rig normally costs more than an ASIC.

 

I hope that this helps and that you make a decision that you won't regret! Also if I got anything wrong or there's something important to add please do tell.

[xamo1988]

Thank you FireClawGames,

 

That's very interesting!

 

Yes, this is why I'm trying to gather as much information as possible plus while browsing some websites I get different opinions and more often than not, contradicting ones.

 

For instance, I found a website with a rig of 6 1070 in where the person states earning 600 bucks a month with ETH. On another website, another person with 5 1070 makes 5 bucks per day, so 150 per month. It's a huge difference.

 

Would you have any experience in this? As numbers to me matter a lot as in any investment..

 

Thank you

[FireClawGames]

8 hours ago, xamo1988 said:

As numbers to me matter a lot as in any investment..

whattomine.com will be really useful for you to get some numbers about the profitability of mining.

 

Also, I realize I forgot to do a little summary with the last post here. Essentially ASICs are more risky, but can be potentially more profitable if you play it right and GPU rigs are more stable. Another thing to keep in mind is that GPU rigs have a much higher resale value in the future as well because they still have purpose past mining.

[xamo1988]

2 hours ago, FireClawGames said:

whattomine.com will be really useful for you to get some numbers about the profitability of mining.

 

Also, I realize I forgot to do a little summary with the last post here. Essentially ASICs are more risky, but can be potentially more profitable if you play it right and GPU rigs are more stable. Another thing to keep in mind is that GPU rigs have a much higher resale value in the future as well because they still have purpose past mining.

You're right, the cards can be sold back but can mining kill the cards?

 

As for the cards, using your website I made some comparison, in between 1060,1070, and 1080, seems like the best for the bucks would either be the 1070 or 1080 but there are so many different cards and brands for those. Are there specific brands, or specific 1070 and 1080 to avoid at all cost? Cause I can see that some brands are always out of stock while others are less expensive and available?

[FireClawGames]

6 hours ago, xamo1988 said:

You're right, the cards can be sold back but can mining kill the cards?

Yeah it can reduce their lifespan, so you just have to make sure that they work for gaming before resale. I feel like most people would expect for cards to be mined on at this point honestly.

 

6 hours ago, xamo1988 said:

in between 1060,1070, and 1080

You should make sure you don't forget about AMD cards, from what I've read they're very good for Ethereum and other ethhash coins.

 

6 hours ago, xamo1988 said:

Are there specific brands, or specific 1070 and 1080 to avoid at all cost? Cause I can see that some brands are always out of stock while others are less expensive and available?

You might want to check the GPUMining and EtherMining subreddits. I remember that Hynix memory is something you should try to avoid and Samsung memory is the best. I don't know off of the top of my head which manufacturers use which brand of memory. Other than that I'm fairly certain that you should just get one with a decent cooler on it and you should be fine. As for getting cards, I know that a lot of miners keep a close eye on the stock on online stores, manufacturers websites, and physical stores in their area because it tends to be cheaper or just more reliable to buy the cards new.

[w8kdrifter]

On 2/13/2018 at 4:39 AM, xamo1988 said:

Hello everyone,

 

I hope I'll be posting in the right category as I'm new here.

 

I'm looking toward making some extra money through mining but being new in this I was wondering if it actually was worth it. As far as I understand it, it's also a question of balance as to what you spend in comparison to what you earn (with the electric bill for instance) but I'm currently living in a work apt in which I'm not paying the electricity.

 

So my question is, would it be worth it in my situation to buy, or build a system specifically for the purpose of mining? And if so, what would you say my first investment would be in order to build something efficient?

 

I hope that these questions won't break any rules, and if they do I'm sorry.

 

Thank you for your time,

 

 

They key right now is whether or not you can get GPUs for a good price and that would be the 1st parts I would buy when piecing a system together. That will determine whether or not you should get into mining, in my opinion. I was able to score 4 AMD RX 580 cards for about $240/each in December. I am mining ethereum. Given that my cards were so cheap mining has been great for me. However, with that said, the EXACT same cards I paid $240 for (this was the price after rebates) are now going for $750 each on newegg. At $750/each it will take you a LOT longer to recoup your investment and I quite frankly would not personally spend that much on a card. Crypto is highly volatile so the longer it takes to get your investment back the more risk you run of not getting it back. I started mining ETH when it was around $327/token, it ran up to $1400/token and is now down around $900/token and has dipped into the $500 range several times. I was able to recoup my investment so from here on our it's all profit and is a fun ride. Its all a hobby for me and I do not depend on the income so I just have fun with it. 

 

Hope this helps. 

[w8kdrifter]

Just now, w8kdrifter said:

...sorry accidentally double posted. 

 

[Daniel644]

it ultimately comes down to how much you want to try to earn, if you aren't paying for electricity and already have hardware anything you earn will be pure profit, but it will probably be pretty small numbers (depending on your hardware, even 1080ti's are only doing 4ish dollars a day these days), if you run out and buy a bunch of hardware you have to earn back all the money you spent on the hardware before you actually start making money.

[xamo1988]

I'm one of those people who doesn't mind investing the 4k I have today, and doesn't mind waiting 1 year to see profit so long as in the long run there is even if only a slight profit.

 

Now the boring question that so many people ask I'm sure, what would you personally get with the 4000? I guess it depends on the prices of the cards but opinions do matter to me especially when they come from ppl more experienced than I am.

 

I was thinking about 6x RX 570 Nitro+ 8go for 410€ each. What do you think about these cards and am I better off getting this, or the 580 nitro+ 8go for 470€ each?

Or would you get something completely different?

 

Bare with me please

[FlatBrokeRacing]

On 2/13/2018 at 7:04 AM, xamo1988 said:

Hello Nicnac,

 

As you said it would be something to do on the side, to let run, and not pay much attention to it.

This tells me you are better off investing rather than mining. A mining rig is not something you toss to the side and not pay attention to. They are a in constant need of monitoring and cleaning.

[FlatBrokeRacing]

also now is NOT the time to build a mining rig, so get that out of your head, 5-600 for an RX series card and popping 600+ on Nvidia GPU's. If you take your time gathering parts you can get good deals but it takes time right now and EVERYTHING is high. Also does your apartment have a breaker box inside, you'll need nearly 1 full circuit for power draw if you have large rig, and if not a large rig you have to watch how much other crap you have on it otherwise you'll be popping breakers.

[xamo1988]

Hey

 

Actually I don't mind monitoring and cleaning, so long as it doesn't require me to sit next to them 24/7. It'd be something i do on the side while I'm at work while occasionally checking on the rig from work as well.

 

As for the circuit in question, my apt electricity is directly attached to the whole building, I'm unsure how to explain in English but it's made so that it can provide a whole lot more power than required. (I'm unsure how much the building uses but I can tell you the building costs +-7000€per month in electricity   I'm unsure what that converts to in kva

[FlatBrokeRacing]

6 minutes ago, xamo1988 said:

Hey

 

Actually I don't mind monitoring and cleaning, so long as it doesn't require me to sit next to them 24/7. It'd be something i do on the side while I'm at work while occasionally checking on the rig from work as well.

 

As for the circuit in question, my apt electricity is directly attached to the whole building, I'm unsure how to explain in English but it's made so that it can provide a whole lot more power than required. (I'm unsure how much the building uses but I can tell you the building costs +-7000€per month in electricity   I'm unsure what that converts to in kva

yeah the whole building can supply mega power, like every other apartment in existence. however if you think your suite has a 100-200amp panel you are kidding yourself. Most apartments run 50A service panels of 15a breakers per 'room'. If you dont have  a panel in your suite, then it will be in a maintenance room somewhere and thats a pain in the ass when you accidentally trip a breaker because your living room is on the same breaker as your kitchen and you just turned the microwave on.

 

but shit what do i know 

 

at the end of the day do what you want, but right now your pissing your money away on hardware that is 2-3x more expensive than what it should be, everything from PSU's - mobo's to ram to gpu's are all through the roof on pricing currently so have fun with the never never roi as difficulty on most algorithms like eth has DOUBLED over the last couple of months and the only thing thats going to be easy is a headache, all the shit coins are there for you to mine.

[xamo1988]

47 minutes ago, FlatBrokeRacing said:

yeah the whole building can supply mega power, like every other apartment in existence. however if you think your suite has a 100-200amp panel you are kidding yourself. Most apartments run 50A service panels of 15a breakers per 'room'. If you dont have  a panel in your suite, then it will be in a maintenance room somewhere and thats a pain in the ass when you accidentally trip a breaker because your living room is on the same breaker as your kitchen and you just turned the microwave on.

 

but shit what do i know 

 

at the end of the day do what you want, but right now your pissing your money away on hardware that is 2-3x more expensive than what it should be, everything from PSU's - mobo's to ram to gpu's are all through the roof on pricing currently so have fun with the never never roi as difficulty on most algorithms like eth has DOUBLED over the last couple of months and the only thing thats going to be easy is a headache, all the shit coins are there for you to mine.

As I said, I'm new to this and I believe it's normal to ask questions. I'll definitely ask about the power supply as I have no clue how it's connected to my apt. All I know is that the contract with the building and my apt is one and the same. The rest I'll ask the electrician of the building tomorrow

 

I guess what attracts me in the whole mining is that unlike investing, where you invest your money in something that could disappear overnight, buying a rig makes you keep your investment and the possible loss from it can only go so far as you can still sell your hardware later on, perhaps at a loss but at a manageable one. That alone is attractive as far as an investment goes. Wouldn't you think so?

 

Either way, I'm gonna take some time to get all of my questions answered and I don't mind hearing something that goes out of my way as my ultimate goal isn't to be proven wrong or right or to have people tell me what i want to hear, no, it's to if I decide to invest, get back my invested money some day with a certain benefit, even if it's not huge. If it's not possible then I won't do this.

 

 

[FlatBrokeRacing]

7 hours ago, xamo1988 said:

As I said, I'm new to this and I believe it's normal to ask questions. I'll definitely ask about the power supply as I have no clue how it's connected to my apt. All I know is that the contract with the building and my apt is one and the same. The rest I'll ask the electrician of the building tomorrow

 

I guess what attracts me in the whole mining is that unlike investing, where you invest your money in something that could disappear overnight, buying a rig makes you keep your investment and the possible loss from it can only go so far as you can still sell your hardware later on, perhaps at a loss but at a manageable one. That alone is attractive as far as an investment goes. Wouldn't you think so?

 

Either way, I'm gonna take some time to get all of my questions answered and I don't mind hearing something that goes out of my way as my ultimate goal isn't to be proven wrong or right or to have people tell me what i want to hear, no, it's to if I decide to invest, get back my invested money some day with a certain benefit, even if it's not huge. If it's not possible then I won't do this.

 

 

Questions are normal and they are good to ask, But there is always more information to know when you are planning things, Just like your Appartment complex may not like it when the power jumps to your suit by $100/month from a mining rig running, and if they keep track of it may be asking what is going on, and they may not allow or like the fact that you are mining. It is however THEIR building and power not yours.

 

As far as mining vs investing, You will make more money on investing in a shorter amount of time than you ever will mining, with investing you start small ($100) and play with that to make sure you get your moves right, and remember that FISCAL gains are not necessarily proper investing with funds, you are looking for Satoshi's when trading. 

 

As for taking a loss, well lets put it this way, if mining crashed tomorrow and you bought $3000 worth of RX580's for $500 PER card, and wanted to sell to recoup some money, do you really think your going to get any money back with a market flooded with mined on cards? Especially when most GAMERS refuse to use mined on cards as they THINK that us miners kill the cards by running them overclocked and undervolted 24/7. So that means you'll be fighting a market flooded with cards and next to no buyers.  Think about that one for a second.

 

Investing is very time consuming, and alot of things can go wrong, but can also go right. Mining is very time consuming, and alot of things can go wrong or right, hardware failures, maintenance, figuring out which coins to mine, how long your going to mine said coin, or if you run into the Noob mistake of switching coins all the time to dance around. My motto is pick a coin, and run with it for a minimum time of around 30days to see how things are going. If your going to be a fool and mine using Nicehash,Betterhash,Minergate, or many of the other "oneclick" done programs out there then take note that fee's are high, and until you have that coin in your personal Local or Hardware wallet then you dont own it and it can disappear (RE: Nicehack) where many people lost alot of currency due to their payout schedules which are even worse now.

 

I got into mining not to make money, but as a hobby/curiosity, I now have multiple rigs, many of which have an ROI paid off (if you actually care about ROI). 

 

GPU Mining > is one of the best to get into from the standpoint of hardware, mainly because its all useable and can switch algorithms, can make just as much as an ASIC per month for roughly the same cost ***ish***

 

ASIC Mining > Loud, space saving machines that are only really good for what they are designed for, Most profitable on batch #1 of the newest generation miner, from day #1 profits start dropping, If you do not buy direct you pay out the ass for one due to limited quantity. When they become non-profitable they are generally trash unless someone somewhere has custom firmware for them to switch to an alt coin. An antminer S9 currently makes less per month than one of my 12card GPU rigs.

 

Investing > Steep learning curve, highest risk, highest reward, time consuming with market watches, and you need to be ontop of the markets at all times if you want to trade on the highs. Overtrading can lead to losses among many other things.  I personally have made more in 1 month by trading than i have with 1 mining rig. Its all about making the right moves at the right time and alittle bit of luck.

[xamo1988]

4 hours ago, FlatBrokeRacing said:

Questions are normal and they are good to ask, But there is always more information to know when you are planning things, Just like your Appartment complex may not like it when the power jumps to your suit by $100/month from a mining rig running, and if they keep track of it may be asking what is going on, and they may not allow or like the fact that you are mining. It is however THEIR building and power not yours.

 

As far as mining vs investing, You will make more money on investing in a shorter amount of time than you ever will mining, with investing you start small ($100) and play with that to make sure you get your moves right, and remember that FISCAL gains are not necessarily proper investing with funds, you are looking for Satoshi's when trading. 

 

As for taking a loss, well lets put it this way, if mining crashed tomorrow and you bought $3000 worth of RX580's for $500 PER card, and wanted to sell to recoup some money, do you really think your going to get any money back with a market flooded with mined on cards? Especially when most GAMERS refuse to use mined on cards as they THINK that us miners kill the cards by running them overclocked and undervolted 24/7. So that means you'll be fighting a market flooded with cards and next to no buyers.  Think about that one for a second.

 

Investing is very time consuming, and alot of things can go wrong, but can also go right. Mining is very time consuming, and alot of things can go wrong or right, hardware failures, maintenance, figuring out which coins to mine, how long your going to mine said coin, or if you run into the Noob mistake of switching coins all the time to dance around. My motto is pick a coin, and run with it for a minimum time of around 30days to see how things are going. If your going to be a fool and mine using Nicehash,Betterhash,Minergate, or many of the other "oneclick" done programs out there then take note that fee's are high, and until you have that coin in your personal Local or Hardware wallet then you dont own it and it can disappear (RE: Nicehack) where many people lost alot of currency due to their payout schedules which are even worse now.

 

I got into mining not to make money, but as a hobby/curiosity, I now have multiple rigs, many of which have an ROI paid off (if you actually care about ROI). 

 

GPU Mining > is one of the best to get into from the standpoint of hardware, mainly because its all useable and can switch algorithms, can make just as much as an ASIC per month for roughly the same cost ***ish***

 

ASIC Mining > Loud, space saving machines that are only really good for what they are designed for, Most profitable on batch #1 of the newest generation miner, from day #1 profits start dropping, If you do not buy direct you pay out the ass for one due to limited quantity. When they become non-profitable they are generally trash unless someone somewhere has custom firmware for them to switch to an alt coin. An antminer S9 currently makes less per month than one of my 12card GPU rigs.

 

Investing > Steep learning curve, highest risk, highest reward, time consuming with market watches, and you need to be ontop of the markets at all times if you want to trade on the highs. Overtrading can lead to losses among many other things.  I personally have made more in 1 month by trading than i have with 1 mining rig. Its all about making the right moves at the right time and alittle bit of luck.

 

Thank you for this information, I'll definitely take note of everything that you've said before making a decision

 

 

[FireClawGames]

On 2/16/2018 at 3:47 AM, xamo1988 said:

Thank you for this information, I'll definitely take note of everything that you've said before making a decision

Good luck to you and big kudos to FlatBrokeRacing for spending the time to write all of that.