Considering today's market, is a Ps4 Pro a better buy for gaming than a pc?

[Ace McPlane]

23 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Good points, but let's break them down.

 

1. Old PC Games. Anything (or most of them) on GoG will probably play decently on modern hardware w/ Windows 10. They'll troubleshoot with you if you do have issues. With that in mind, there are many classic games that refuse to cooperate or are buggy/broken, on Windows 10. If you happen to have an old DOS box, etc, you'll be in better shape though.

2. VR - yes Oculus and Vive are superior, no question. But:

2a. They require a significantly more powerful (and therefore expensive) PC to get a good solid experience where few of the titles will drop below 90 FPS (60 is playable but 90 is your target)

2b. The PS VR costs a lot less than the Vive or Oculus.

 

With those two sub-points together, you can see that jumping into VR is cheaper as a whole, via PS VR. The console + VR headset costs less than a good VR capable PC + a Vive.

 

So you pick your poison. Either you want the best, and are willing to pay for it, or you're willing to compromise on price.

1. Check out virtual machines like VMware. You can install a copy of windows 95 or whatever on one of those and play just about everything. Very few games require anything like that though. Only old games that won't launch from DOS.

2. That's actually a myth that's really hurting VR adoption.

You can buy a gtx 960 or 970 for like 150 bucks and be up and running for VR just fine.

I hate that myth. It convinces a lot of people not to buy into what is the best thing to happen to gaming in my lifetime.

2b. Actually not really. You can get an entire Oculus set with the controllers and everything for like 450 bucks now. 

The prices have come down like crazy.

 

I've played PSVR and I just can't suggest it.

It's so inferior and the game selection is so small that it's honestly depressing.

Sony deserves a lot of flack for not getting their arses in gear and making sure content gets produced for it.

My dad has one and he can only find like 1 or 2 games he wants to play.

That's not acceptable to me.

 

We need to stop acting like you need the best PC out there. There are tons of ways to scrapyard wars yourself a good computer or if you want to buy new, you can build one with an APU and just wait to buy the graphics card until later, but yea.. there are tons of ways to make PC gaming affordable.

The lowest you can go for VR support?

Find an old dell or something with anything higher than an i5 4590 in it then just add one of those cheaper 9 series cards I was talking about. Bam, super cheap VR compatible computer.

Depending on who you buy it off of, you might even be able to pull it off for under 500 bucks or even less!

That would be a serious score though

Oh, and I'd still recommend buying like a 50 dollar 550w 80+ bronze power supply for a plan like that, because those DELL style pre-build PSUs are seriously crappy and I don't trust them.

 

Good friendly debate.

This is linustechtips though. I have to defend PC's

[dalekphalm]

12 minutes ago, stateofpsychosis said:

1. Check out virtual machines like VMware. You can install a copy of windows 95 or whatever on one of those and play just about everything. Very few games require anything like that though. Only old games that won't launch from DOS.

2. That's actually a myth that's really hurting VR adoption.

You can buy a gtx 960 or 970 for like 150 bucks and be up and running for VR just fine.

I hate that myth. It convinces a lot of people not to buy into what is the best thing to happen to gaming in my lifetime.

2b. Actually not really. You can get an entire Oculus set with the controllers and everything for like 450 bucks now. 

The prices have come down like crazy.

 

I've played PSVR and I just can't suggest it.

It's so inferior and the game selection is so small that it's honestly depressing.

Sony deserves a lot of flack for not getting their arses in gear and making sure content gets produced for it.

My dad has one and he can only find like 1 or 2 games he wants to play.

That's not acceptable to me.

 

We need to stop acting like you need the best PC out there. There are tons of ways to scrapyard wars yourself a good computer or if you want to buy new, you can build one with an APU and just wait to buy the graphics card until later, but yea.. there are tons of ways to make PC gaming affordable.

The lowest you can go for VR support?

Find an old dell or something with anything higher than an i5 4590 in it then just add one of those cheaper 9 series cards I was talking about. Bam, super cheap VR compatible computer.

Depending on who you buy it off of, you might even be able to pull it off for under 500 bucks or even less!

That would be a serious score though

Oh, and I'd still recommend buying like a 50 dollar 550w 80+ bronze power supply for a plan like that, because those DELL style pre-build PSUs are seriously crappy and I don't trust them.

 

Good friendly debate.

This is linustechtips though. I have to defend the PC's

1. Yes I am aware of virtualization tech. It's actually an excellent way to get older games to run.

 

But let's be clear - regular folks are simply not gonna do this - or even be able to do it.

 

2. It's not a myth. You're talking about used hardware, since finding a brand new GTX 970 in a store is gonna be next to impossible for most people.

 

So we need to compare like for like. Buying a used GTX 970 is a great way to get into VR. But we cannot compare new vs used. You can buy used PS4's and PS VR's too that will also lower the price. Furthermore, the GPU is but one of many components that make up a VR capable PC. On top of that, a GTX 960 is below recommended spec. Sure it'll work for some games, but plenty will be too powerful for it to handle without frame drops.

 

2b. Yes, the Oculus has come down in price quite a bit, but the PS VR is still cheaper. I've seen it as low as $350 USD.

 

As to whether you can suggest PS VR or not, is entirely up to personal preference. I've played both PS VR and HTC Vive - we have both at work. Obviously the Vive is way better. But the PS VR is easier and faster to setup and use. And it's not terrible. It's just not as good.

 

Hence why PS4 Pro + PS VR are cheaper to get into (when considering new hardware). The game selection is quite small. But there are still some solid games to choose from. VR in general suffers from a lack of a huge selection.

 

Definitely, all good suggestions to get into VR gaming for cheap. But again, they all rely on buying used hardware. If you're gonna recommend that, you also have to consider used PS4 Pro's and/or used PS VR's. I've seen some very low prices on both.

 

Both are great. And both have their place in the gaming industry. They each have pros and cons. One is not inherently, automatically, and in every way "better" than the other.

 

If you can afford a Vive + a good enough PC? Yeah man get that, if you want to get into VR. But if you already own a PS4 Pro and don't own a good PC, then getting a PS VR might make more sense.

[Ace McPlane]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

1. Yes I am aware of virtualization tech. It's actually an excellent way to get older games to run.

 

But let's be clear - regular folks are simply not gonna do this - or even be able to do it.

 

2. It's not a myth. You're talking about used hardware, since finding a brand new GTX 970 in a store is gonna be next to impossible for most people.

 

So we need to compare like for like. Buying a used GTX 970 is a great way to get into VR. But we cannot compare new vs used. You can buy used PS4's and PS VR's too that will also lower the price. Furthermore, the GPU is but one of many components that make up a VR capable PC. On top of that, a GTX 960 is below recommended spec. Sure it'll work for some games, but plenty will be too powerful for it to handle without frame drops.

 

2b. Yes, the Oculus has come down in price quite a bit, but the PS VR is still cheaper. I've seen it as low as $350 USD.

 

As to whether you can suggest PS VR or not, is entirely up to personal preference. I've played both PS VR and HTC Vive - we have both at work. Obviously the Vive is way better. But the PS VR is easier and faster to setup and use. And it's not terrible. It's just not as good.

 

Hence why PS4 Pro + PS VR are cheaper to get into (when considering new hardware). The game selection is quite small. But there are still some solid games to choose from. VR in general suffers from a lack of a huge selection.

 

Definitely, all good suggestions to get into VR gaming for cheap. But again, they all rely on buying used hardware. If you're gonna recommend that, you also have to consider used PS4 Pro's and/or used PS VR's. I've seen some very low prices on both.

 

Both are great. And both have their place in the gaming industry. They each have pros and cons. One is not inherently, automatically, and in every way "better" than the other.

 

If you can afford a Vive + a good enough PC? Yeah man get that, if you want to get into VR. But if you already own a PS4 Pro and don't own a good PC, then getting a PS VR might make more sense.

Why can't we compare new to used?

The question doesn't require the parts to be new.

Just what is the better buy.

 

Let me be frank.

The PSVR is okay, but compared to an Oculus or Vive, it's complete shit.

It's not even playable to someone who's already into using a CV1 or a Vive.

It's THAT big of a difference, so 100 extra bucks considering that difference is not a lot and you're talking the lowest price you can find a PSVR for. You can find Oculus's for lower prices too. I'm talking about retail prices for that.

Wait for a sale. You can easily get an Oculus with touch controls for the same price and you're getting a lot more for your money that way. Christmas/black friday/boxing day sales for Oculus are fantastic like that for example.

 

VR game selection is getting a lot better on the PC end.

I'm not talking about a small difference.

I'm talking over 10 times more games if not more.

The PSVR has about 100 games right now including crappy demos and stuff.

Just in steamvr alone there are 115 pages of games with 25 games on each page

so that's actually 25x more games not even including the Oculus store.

That's a gigantic difference.

 

No, the Oculus and Vive are objectively better than PSVR. There's no debate about that.

They're not even in the same ballpark.

Now, compared to each other though, they're pretty much the same.

The Oculus is better than Vive and Vive is better than Oculus people are just doing the fanboy thing. I've tried both and they're both really good.

 

Honestly, to anyone who's shitck is VR,

Do NOT get the PSVR. It's sooo worth saving up a little more for a real VR system.

The PSVR is seriously subpar. Everything from the tracking to the image quality to the game selection.

If sony decides to start caring enough to produce serious content, then I'll change my mind on that but until then you'll be bored all of the time with nothing to play.

That's where my dad is and I went out of my way to build him a VR compatible computer since I feel so bad for him after recommending the PSVR to him.

That bad.

I'm saying this because I've tried it enough and skimmed through the store enough finding nothing to play so I can say that objectively.

 

[SSJGodemis]

On 3/2/2018 at 7:24 AM, stateofpsychosis said:

You're not including the fact that there is 100x more games for PC if not more since almost everything from the 90's and up is still playable on PC whereas with a console you're mostly limited to the current generation of games and if not you have to buy the game again.

This is only one tiny little point too.

What about VR?

Have you compared PSVR to and Oculus or Vive.

The difference is huge.

So, yea.

Regardless of what's cheaper, you still get a heck of a lot more out of a PC.

I can honestly care less about VR or old games. PSVR is much cheaper than Vive and Occulus also. But like I said they dont really matter to me.  I dont even have time for current games. 

[Ace McPlane]

2 hours ago, SSJGodemis said:

I can honestly care less about VR or old games. PSVR is much cheaper than Vive and Occulus also. But like I said they dont really matter to me.  I dont even have time for current games. 

Yea, cheaper in terms of quality as well.

You get what you pay for.

There is a massive difference between PSVR and Oculus/Vive not some small difference.

I wouldn't even recommend buying a PSVR because of the lack of game selection alone not to mention the terrible controllers.

 

The question is about what is a better buy between PC and console so I stick by my answer.

Everybody keeps going on about how expensive GPUs are right now while they could pick up a 970 for 200 bucks which is ridiculously good.

That's the point I was trying to make.

 

People don't need to feel like they can't get into this because it's too expensive.

If a 970 is VR compatible, it's a very good card that's very capable for regular PC gaming..

so I'm just saying.. we don't need to scare people away from buying PCs just because current GPUs are expensive

There are all sorts of ways to make it more affordable.

 

On a side note: I find a lot of people's opinions about VR really depressing.

How can anyone not be excited about this new medium?

It's jaw droppingly cool.. like just in the way where your hands are in the game now alone not even just being able to be in the game. Everything is so much more interactive and so many possibilities for different genres just opened up.. Like Iron Wolf for example will blow you away.

I'm curious..

Did folks like you just maybe try sub-par headsets and that's why you don't care about it?

because if you tried gearvr, PSVR, google cardboard, or any of those other lower quality ones, you really haven't tried a serious one yet and I'd get why you might not realize how big of a deal it is yet.

 

[SSJGodemis]

1 hour ago, stateofpsychosis said:

Yea, cheaper in terms of quality as well.

You get what you pay for.

There is a massive difference between PSVR and Oculus/Vive not some small difference.

I wouldn't even recommend buying a PSVR because of the lack of game selection alone not to mention the terrible controllers.

 

The question is about what is a better buy between PC and console so I stick by my answer.

Everybody keeps going on about how expensive GPUs are right now while they could pick up a 970 for 200 bucks which is ridiculously good.

That's the point I was trying to make.

 

People don't need to feel like they can't get into this because it's too expensive.

If a 970 is VR compatible, it's a very good card that's very capable for regular PC gaming..

so I'm just saying.. we don't need to scare people away from buying PCs just because current GPUs are expensive

There are all sorts of ways to make it more affordable.

 

On a side note: I find a lot of people's opinions about VR really depressing.

How can anyone not be excited about this new medium?

It's jaw droppingly cool.. like just in the way where your hands are in the game now alone not even just being able to be in the game. Everything is so much more interactive and so many possibilities for different genres just opened up.. Like Iron Wolf for example will blow you away.

I'm curious..

Did folks like you just maybe try sub-par headsets and that's why you don't care about it?

because if you tried gearvr, PSVR, google cardboard, or any of those other lower quality ones, you really haven't tried a serious one yet and I'd get why you might not realize how big of a deal it is yet.

 

Sure but used cards are a risk. A 970 is 5 years old now. You have no idea the condition it actually could be in. I dont want a card that was used for Crypto. Most of my friends who are getting into PC gaming are buying pre-builds. Most got a nice Alienware with a GTX 1070 and an I7-8700 for $1100. Add in the cost of a monitor and you are at $1300-1500. Depending on what you get.  You can get a PS4 Pro and a 4k HDR set for $1000 total. Thats a good deal for a casual gamer or someone who only has time for exclusives. 

 

You seem like a bit of an elitist to be honest. I can be also though haha.  PCs are great. However, they are for enthusiasts and always have been. Consoles are for the general population. They are simple, cost less and just work. If GPUs still this high for sometime then I would probably move over more to console gaming.Not because its better. Just because for the amount of time I can actually game a PC wouldn't be worth the investment. 

 

Finally, VR is cool. Its just expensive right now. The Vive is expensive and it takes some time to set it all up. The Occulus is fun but can give me vertigo. Also isnt great with my glasses, the PS4VR fits more ergonomically. 

[Ace McPlane]

12 minutes ago, SSJGodemis said:

Sure but used is a huge risk. I dont want a card that was used for Crypto. Most of my friends who are getting into PC gaming are buying pre-builds. Most got a nice Alienware with a GTX 1070 and an I7-8700 for $1100. Add in the cost of a monitor and you are at $1300-1500. Depending on what you get.  You can get a PS4 Pro and a 4k HDR set for $1000 total. Thats a good deal for a casual gamer or someone who only has time for exclusives. 

 

You seem like a bit of an elitist to be honest. PCs are great. However, they are for enthusiasts and always have been. Consoles are for the general population. They are simple, cost less and just work. If GPUs still this high for sometime then I would probably move over more to console gaming.Not because its better. Just because for the amount of time I can actually game a PC wouldn't be worth the investment. 

 

Finally, VR is cool. Its just expensive right now. The Vive is expensive and it takes some time to set it all up. The Occulus is fun but can give me vertigo. Also isnt great with my glasses, the PS4VR fits more ergonomically. 

No, it's not a big risk if you know what you're doing.

There's an automatic 30 day return policy on ebay regardless of whether or not the seller accepts returns

Knowing that little tidbit right there changes everything if you're afraid of buying used.

 

You just need to make sure you buy everything you need to post in the beginning so you can test your components with that 30 days.

 

You keep bringing up the fact that console and PSVR is cheaper.

Console is always cheaper, but that's besides the point.

 

PSVR is not even half as good as a Vive or Rift so it's really comparing apples and oranges.

It doesn't matter if it costs less if it's really crappy in comparison.

 

Anyone thinking about getting into VR needs to know that if you want to get into this, don't cheap out.

Save up more if you have to. Otherwise it'll just cost you more in the long run, because you won't be happy with PSVR and you'll eventually want a real VR system. It's just a tease.

When your playspace is barely big enough to turn around and you only have one camera and stupid wands that don't track right compared to an Oculus or Vive with perfect 12x12 foot roomscale and perfect tracking, there's just no comparison.

 

You don't need a monitor persay.

You can just plug your computer into your TV or buy a cheap 1080p monitor to get you started.

No one HAS to buy a 4k monitor.

 

Come on! Don't call me names like an elitist.

This is supposed to be a friendly conversation.

No need to get ugly.

 

Again, pascal GPUs being expensive is not an argument against PC's while maxwell GPUs are super cheap right now and can hold their own just fine.

 

Point is, you don't need the latest and greatest hardware to be a PC gamer

and I don't think there's anything elitist about wanting people who are afraid to get into this to know that there's a more affordable route to get there.

 

Oh, and I'm extremely confused about your last point.

The Oculus gives you vertigo? 

There's nothing really that different between an Oculus and a Vive visually speaking.

There's absolutely no reason why an Oculus would give you vertigo and a Vive wouldn't.

That makes no sense at all.

In fact, the image quality with the Oculus is slightly better and it handles frame rates better with ASW so if anything it should be better.

What you're talking about is VR sickness not vertigo and it's something you get over pretty quickly if you use it every day. You must have just played a game that's worse for this on the Oculus. The Oculus itself is exactly the same as the Vive in this regard so it'd be the same with either.

Some things cause it worse than others game wise.

That's all.

[SSJGodemis]

36 minutes ago, stateofpsychosis said:

No, it's not a big risk if you know what you're doing.

There's an automatic 30 day return policy on ebay regardless of whether or not the seller accepts returns

Knowing that little tidbit right there changes everything if you're afraid of buying used.

 

You just need to make sure you buy everything you need to post in the beginning so you can test your components with that 30 days.

 

You keep bringing up the fact that console and PSVR is cheaper.

Console is always cheaper, but that's besides the point.

 

PSVR is not even half as good as a Vive or Rift so it's really comparing apples and oranges.

It doesn't matter if it costs less if it's really crappy in comparison.

 

Anyone thinking about getting into VR needs to know that if you want to get into this, don't cheap out.

Save up more if you have to. Otherwise it'll just cost you more in the long run, because you won't be happy with PSVR and you'll eventually want a real VR system. It's just a tease.

When your playspace is barely big enough to turn around and you only have one camera and stupid wands that don't track right compared to an Oculus or Vive with perfect 12x12 foot roomscale and perfect tracking, there's just no comparison.

 

You don't need a monitor persay.

You can just plug your computer into your TV or buy a cheap 1080p monitor to get you started.

No one HAS to buy a 4k monitor.

 

Come on! Don't call me names like an elitist.

This is supposed to be a friendly conversation.

No need to get ugly.

 

Again, pascal GPUs being expensive is not an argument against PC's while maxwell GPUs are super cheap right now and can hold their own just fine.

 

Point is, you don't need the latest and greatest hardware to be a PC gamer

and I don't think there's anything elitist about wanting people who are afraid to get into this to know that there's a more affordable route to get there.

 

Oh, and I'm extremely confused about your last point.

The Oculus gives you vertigo? 

There's nothing really that different between an Oculus and a Vive visually speaking.

There's absolutely no reason why an Oculus would give you vertigo and a Vive wouldn't.

That makes no sense at all.

In fact, the image quality with the Oculus is slightly better and it handles frame rates better with ASW so if anything it should be better.

What you're talking about is VR sickness not vertigo and it's something you get over pretty quickly if you use it every day. You must have just played a game that's worse for this on the Oculus. The Oculus itself is exactly the same as the Vive in this regard so it'd be the same with either.

Some things cause it worse than others game wise.

That's all.

Sorry, I just meant your opinion seem biased. Not elitist. 

 

My point about the PS4 Pro being cheaper is just to list a benefit of it compared to the current pricing of building a PC. Unless you get a pre-build. 

 

I agree you dont need the greatest hardware. I usually always tell my friends if they want the best gaming experience then get a PC and a used PS4. I just bought Final Fantasy 15 for the PC. My god the difference is night and day. I have a 4k HDR Monitor. On a mix of medium and high the game runs great at  a stable 60fps. However, even a more affordable PC would do great. 

 

 

VR is weird for me. Maybe it was just that day but I never had an issue with Vive and only felt sick on Oculus.