Windows Server / Proxmox / FreeNAS as host of all-in-one server?

[RezidentSeagull]

So I'm planning out the eventual deployment of an all-in-one home server that will (ideally) handle both virtualization and ZFS-based file-storage in one box. The options I have considered so far are Windows Server 2016 (HyperV & FreeNAS VM for file storage), Proxmox VE (KVM, LXC containers and native ZFS w/ additional Samba sharing), or FreeNAS 11 (native ZFS and excellent file sharing w/ bhyve hypervisor as of FN 11).

 

I have a license for Server 2016 already, and the other two options are free and open-source, so the cost barrier isn't a big deal.

 

To me, Freenas has the best storage management interface, but (currently) the worst virtualization management interface (GUI is weak, command-line is likely better but more of a hassle); Proxmox has great native virtualization and container support but requires some complicated work to setup SMB sharing; and Windows Server 2016 is (AFAIK) more resource intensive as a host, but will allow me to run many Server 2016 VMs, and I'm much more familiar with HyperV.

 

Additionally, I mostly plan on running Linux VMs/containers, seeing as they are open-source and I find them fun to learn!

 

If anybody has some experience or perspective here, I would greatly appreciate your input!

[Nikolithebear]

2 minutes ago, RezidentSeagull said:

 

What hardware are you planning on using?  Because that is a factor as well.  

[Electronics Wizardy]

Id use proxmox, its nice to use vms on it, filesharing is nice.

 

9 minutes ago, RezidentSeagull said:

but will allow me to run many Server 2016 VMs

You can do that on proxmox or anyother hypervisor, the vm linence works on any hypvervisor, not just hyper-v.

 

 

[RezidentSeagull]

2 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Id use proxmox, its nice to use vms on it, filesharing is nice.

 

You can do that on proxmox or anyother hypervisor, the vm linence works on any hypvervisor, not just hyper-v.

 

 

Any tips on how to do file sharing with Proxmox, specifically SMB shares? I setup a test VM just to try out ProxMox, and so far my best guess is setting up a Samba container, mounting a dataset from the Proxmox host, then sharing it to the rest of the network, though I haven't quite set that up for myself yet.

 

Also, does that involve nested VMs, or can I just use the same license for many VMs on a single host?

[Electronics Wizardy]

5 minutes ago, RezidentSeagull said:

Any tips on how to do file sharing with Proxmox, specifically SMB shares? I setup a test VM just to try out ProxMox, and so far my best guess is setting up a Samba container, mounting a dataset from the Proxmox host, then sharing it to the rest of the network, though I haven't quite set that up for myself yet.

 

Also, does that involve nested VMs, or can I just use the same license for many VMs on a single host?

There are turnkey containers, set one up with a big container on your data share, then you have a nice webinterface to manage sambe from.

 

What edition of server 2016 do you have? 

[RezidentSeagull]

7 minutes ago, Nikolithebear said:

What hardware are you planning on using?  Because that is a factor as well.  

Good Point! Assuming my hardware upgrade plans happen, I'll be converting the FX-8320 system I'm currently using as a desktop into a server. It has 24GB of ECC RAM on an ECC-capable 990FX Sabertooth R2.0 motherboard, so it should have the CPU and memory chops to be flexible for anything in a home environment.

[dmaes]

smb sharing on proxmox isn't that hard. You can setup a simple share with a few commands on debian, for a more complicated share, here is some help. Maybe their is also some GUI way to do it. Didn't even know you could run vm's in FreeNAS via gui, until yesterday (so I guess, it wouldn't be that great?).

Wouldn't go for Windows host (but maybe that's because I'm more of a Linux fanboy)

[RezidentSeagull]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

There are turnkey containers, set one up with a big container on your data share, then you have a nice webinterface to manage sambe from.

 

What edition of server 2016 do you have? 

Okay, looks like I'll need to do some research into turnkey containers then!

 

And I have a Datacenter license, which, as far as I can remember, should let my have "unlimited" VMs on one host.

[Electronics Wizardy]

5 minutes ago, RezidentSeagull said:

Okay, looks like I'll need to do some research into turnkey containers then!

 

And I have a Datacenter license, which, as far as I can remember, should let my have "unlimited" VMs on one host.

It looks like you need to make a kms server on one of the vms to activate the others. Have fun.

 

 

[RezidentSeagull]

Just now, 101dmrs said:

smb sharing on proxmox isn't that hard. You can setup a simple share with a few commands on debian, for a more complicated share, here is some help. Maybe their is also some GUI way to do it. Didn't even know you could run vm's in FreeNAS via gui, until yesterday (so I guess, it wouldn't be that great?).

Wouldn't go for Windows host (but maybe that's because I'm more of a Linux fanboy)

Thanks for the link! I've heard conflicting things in terms of the "right" way to set something like this up (some people argue that containerizing Samba is a cleaner solution, others say that for a home server it's no big deal to install Samba to the host).

 

And yeah, FreeNAS 11 added the ability to create and manage VMs to the web interface. I actually have an Nginx VM running on my little storage box, though I would say the GUI is not great...

 

As for Windows, I do like the free-and-open-source-ness of Linux (plus I just would like to learn how to administrate and use them), but Windows Server does have neat Windows-only features that I can't get through desktop Windows or Linux (like trying out WSUS, WDS or AD)

[RezidentSeagull]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

It looks like you need to make a kms server on one of the vms to activate the others. Have fun.

 

 

That sounds... unfun

[Nikolithebear]

10 minutes ago, RezidentSeagull said:

Good Point! Assuming my hardware upgrade plans happen, I'll be converting the FX-8320 system I'm currently using as a desktop into a server. It has 24GB of ECC RAM on an ECC-capable 990FX Sabertooth R2.0 motherboard, so it should have the CPU and memory chops to be flexible for anything in a home environment.

Id personally go the route with Windows Server and run Storage pools to do a software based raid. Then later you can add drives to the pool and expanded it as needed.  Plus Hyper V! 

[dmaes]

5 minutes ago, RezidentSeagull said:

As for Windows, I do like the free-and-open-source-ness of Linux (plus I just would like to learn how to administrate and use them), but Windows Server does have neat Windows-only features that I can't get through desktop Windows or Linux (like trying out WSUS, WDS or AD)

Well, when 'trying out things', there is also the 'breaking things' side. So I would run that windows server as a guest and not as a host.

(just like you should also try Linux things out in a vm, before implementing them on your host)

[RezidentSeagull]

Just now, Nikolithebear said:

Id personally go the route with Windows Server and run Storage pools to do a software based raid. Then later you can add drives to the pool and expanded it as needed.  Plus Hyper V! 

That's a fair perspective! Storage Spaces is something that I've been thinking about every now and then, and since it's for home usage, ZFS isn't so critical that I absolutely need it. Good points!

[Electronics Wizardy]

6 minutes ago, RezidentSeagull said:

That's a fair perspective! Storage Spaces is something that I've been thinking about every now and then, and since it's for home usage, ZFS isn't so critical that I absolutely need it. Good points!

but zfs is so nice to use and storage spaces is kinda slow with parity. Im a linux guy. 

[brwainer]

What type of Server 2016 Datacenter do you have? If you were only given a single "retail" key then there is no way to activate all the VMs if the hypervisor isn't Server 2016 Datacenter. If you have the host OS be Server 2016 Datacenter be activated with your single key, then all the guests can be activated using Automatic Virtual Machine Activation, which means the guests get activated based on the host's activation status. The guests wpuld also be Server 2016 Datacenter.

 

If you were given a volume license key, then you have to set up a Key Management Server in a VM that activates the other VMs in the network. This will work on any hypervisor.

[RezidentSeagull]

Just now, 101dmrs said:

Well, when 'trying out things', there is also the 'breaking things' side. So I would run that windows server as a guest and not as a host.

(just like you should also try Linux things out in a vm, before implementing them on your host)

Oh for sure. Especially since this is for home usage, it's less important for me personally to have extreme high-availability. That said, I imagine that if I were to use Server 2016 as my host, I would likely limit it to just storage management, then spin off more VMs for experimentation purposes.

[RezidentSeagull]

1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

but zfs is so nice to use and storage spaces is kinda slow with parity. Im a linux guy. 

Also fair. Part of my love for FreeNAS comes from its native usage of ZFS paired with a very functional (if somewhat confusingly designed) interface for management. Plus, I do like having snapshot capabilities and the emphasis on resilient data.

[Electronics Wizardy]

5 minutes ago, RezidentSeagull said:

Also fair. Part of my love for FreeNAS comes from its native usage of ZFS paired with a very functional (if somewhat confusingly designed) interface for management. Plus, I do like having snapshot capabilities and the emphasis on resilient data.

and you get all of that in proxmox. Just in a nice cli thats easier to script and is easy to use.

[dmaes]

6 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Im a linux guy. 

 

2 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Just in a nice cli thats easier to script and is easy to use.

I do like you

 

Now for real, I really think proxmox is the way to go

[RezidentSeagull]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

and you get all of that in proxmox. Just in a nice cli thats easier to script and is easy to use.

True True! It's part of the reason why I asked for some advice on the options. I really like that Proxmox has great native support for ZFS right from the get go; makes it a really appealing all-in-one server option. But I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'm a sucker for GUI administration, which makes Freenas an option that I'm torn on.

[Electronics Wizardy]

5 minutes ago, RezidentSeagull said:

True True! It's part of the reason why I asked for some advice on the options. I really like that Proxmox has great native support for ZFS right from the get go; makes it a really appealing all-in-one server option. But I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'm a sucker for GUI administration, which makes Freenas an option that I'm torn on.

Learing the zfs cli is pretty easy. Everything else is done in the web interface.

[RezidentSeagull]

Just now, 101dmrs said:

 

I do like you

 

Now for real, I really think proxmox is the way to go

Yeah, I think you're ultimately right. It'll be tougher to use than either Windows Server or Freenas, but it'll be a great learning experience, plus it has a lot of features that I'm interested in getting into (mostly LXC containers since I want to better understand them)

[dmaes]

Just now, RezidentSeagull said:

But I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'm a sucker for GUI administration, which makes Freenas an option that I'm torn on.

Proxmox has a webinterface

[RezidentSeagull]

1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Learing the zfs cli is pretty easy. Everything else is done in the web interface.

That's true. Nothing a bit of online research and man pages can't fix for me

 

1 minute ago, 101dmrs said:

Proxmox has a webinterface

I meant a web interface for managing storage and file sharing. Sorry for the confusion