People in North east Victoria Describing NBN "Sheer Hell"

[JAKEBAB]

35 minutes ago, leadeater said:

That doesn't rule out substandard installations causing problems and over-subscription at the cabinet level, problems we used to have in the middle stages of our UFB roll-out and a few of the provisioning companies got their contracts canceled because of it.

 

Other than pricing pretty much every issue with the NBN network is not core infrastructure, other than that one a few years ago you had when netflix launched but that wasn't NBN that was everything Australia wide.

Absolutely! Some of the installs shown with the FTTP roll out are atrocious! iirc the FTTN nodes are fed by 2 fibers only running at 1gbps each, also that second fiber is reserved for redundancy so you've got up to 384 premises all being fed by a single gb fiber which is just a joke. I've seen a few cases of node congestion but not as much as i thought there would be tbh, it is still early days for FTTN though and i fully expect much more to congest as each CSA's coexistence period comes to an end.

[Rohime]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Should just hire NZ to do the job for you, we actually did the job properly (mostly).

Australia STARTED the job properly, with decent baseline Fibre to the Premise (FTTP).

 

Then there was a whole pile of political stupidity of Trumpian Proportions, where one political party thought they could rile up the public about how much it cost (they were right, cause 'the public' are pretty stoopid when it comes to tech).

 

So now we have a different political party that is "spending less" for a worse service.

 

NOTE: "spending less" is political speak for "spending more but over a longer period of time".

 

Funny thing is, the current political head is actually clever enough to know we needed FTTP - but politics.

 

Personally - I am fortunate enough to be living in a "Real NBN" area (real FTTP) - currently running at 100Mbps/40Mbps unlimited data for AUD$99.99/month.    Decent.  Not great, but decent. 

 

I've already taken the decision twice to not move house out of the area until i can get into another area with 'real NBN'.

[MageTank]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Should just hire NZ to do the job for you, we actually did the job properly (mostly).

You trying to start a civil war? Because this is how you get civil wars, lol. 

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, JAKEBAB said:

Absolutely! Some of the installs shown with the FTTP roll out are atrocious! iirc the nodes are fed by 2 fibers only running at 1gbps each, also that second fiber is reserved for redundancy so you've got up to 384 premises all being fed by a single gb fiber which is just a joke.

Yea the design spec for FTTH/P is 1:64 with an acceptable upper limit of 1:128.

 

Here is the actual reference design that NBN/UFB were originally using, Huawei is the actual hardware supplier being used.

 

[leadeater]

Just now, MageTank said:

You trying to start a civil war? Because this is how you get civil wars, lol. 

Sure I could start it but it's such an effort to actually get to NZ no one bothers 

[MageTank]

Just now, leadeater said:

Sure I could start it but it's such an effort to actually get to NZ no one bothers 

That, and from what little information I actually know about NZ, you guys have wizards, dragons and magical jewelry. Don't know if the aussies super deadly animals stand a chance against straight up magic. 

[Dabombinable]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Sure I could start it but it's such an effort to actually get to NZ no one bothers 

I dunno, its cheaper than flying to Perth.

[MageTank]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

I dunno, its cheaper than flying to Perth.

This aussie guy on my teamspeak swears that you can put a game on a flash drive, drive to the other side of the country, and hand it to your friend before he can finish downloading it off the internet, lol. "We outrun the internet".

[Rohime]

13 minutes ago, JAKEBAB said:

 I've seen a few cases of node congestion but not as much as i thought there would be tbh, it is still early days for FTTN though and i fully expect much more to congest as each CSA's coexistence period comes to an end.

Over subscription ratios seem to have been OK so far (3 years and counting) on my FTTP @100Mbps.

EXCEPT when there is a planned upgrade and / or component failure.

 

IE: any single part of data paths go out, and over-subscription ratios are really felt.  

This implies that even now trunk capacity is not being managed  to baseline, but is being allowed to overflow into redundant capacity - and that total capacity (assuming n+1 redundancy) has a very low value of n.

[leadeater]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

I dunno, its cheaper than flying to Perth.

Just don't bring any unprocessed foods and clean your shoes, no dirt allowed else you'll be sent packing at the border. We may have lax policie but there are two authorities you never mess with over here: Border Security and Fisheries Officers (if you so much as catch 1 fish too many or too small they can and will take your boat and car, if serious offences your house too)

[JAKEBAB]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Yea the design spec for FTTH/P is 1:64 with an acceptable upper limit of 1:128.

 

Here is the actual reference design that NBN/UFB were originally using, Huawei is the actual hardware supplier being used.

 

My bad Incase you thought i was talking about FTTP with the 384 premise i was talking about FTTN. FTTP i don't think any of the NBN guys have seen more than 23? people on a FDH so they were well within their limits.

 

@Rohime Was talking about FTTN not FTTP.

[Rohime]

8 minutes ago, MageTank said:

This aussie guy on my teamspeak swears that you can put a game on a flash drive, drive to the other side of the country, and hand it to your friend before he can finish downloading it off the internet, lol. "We outrun the internet".

 

Don't know about "other side of the country" its a BIG COUNTRY.  

You could definitely fly faster though.

 

MANY times i've known people to do this for other side of the city.   And i often download stuff (FTTP) for friends still on ADSL that live a block or three away and cannot get FTTP.

 

[Misanthrope]

I usually don't like to call out "First world problems" so to speak but come on: having bad internet is shitty but sheer hell? Try not having clean water or constantly watching over your back to not get killed.

[mynameisjuan]

10 minutes ago, JAKEBAB said:

Absolutely! Some of the installs shown with the FTTP roll out are atrocious! iirc the nodes are fed by 2 fibers only running at 1gbps each, also that second fiber is reserved for redundancy so you've got up to 384 premises all being fed by a single gb fiber which is just a joke. I've seen a few cases of node congestion but not as much as i thought there would be tbh, it is still early days for FTTN though and i fully expect much more to congest as each CSA's coexistence period comes to an end.

The nodes are fed by two fibers but they are typically duplex so one fiber is down and one is up. I have yet to see a node fed with redundancy in mind in the field. 

 

Also you might think 1 gb is a joke but until you look at a core router netflow you rarely see people fully utilize a pipe. We have a 10gb pipe to that feeds a college and its dorms and around 2500 customers. And at peak utilization you see use of around 4gbps. Thats around 10k people (not sure how much are active at the dorm but 80% comes from there) and only peak at 4gbps. 

 

FTTN is not really in its early days as its been deployed for a few years but the problem lies with the copper on the other end not the nodes them selves

[MageTank]

Just now, Rohime said:

 

Don't know about "other side of the country" its a BIG COUNTRY.  

You could definitely fly faster though.

 

MANY times i've known people to do this for other side of the city.   And i often download stuff (FTTP) for friends still on ADSL that live a block or three away and cannot get FTTP.

 

I believe he was just over-exaggerating how slow his internet was. Whenever we updated our clients, he would be an hour late to the party. He also suffers from a data cap x.x

[Rohime]

Just now, MageTank said:

I believe he was just over-exaggerating how slow his internet was. Whenever we updated our clients, he would be an hour late to the party. He also suffers from a data cap x.x

Hes not exaggerating much.

[Dabombinable]

21 minutes ago, MageTank said:

This aussie guy on my teamspeak swears that you can put a game on a flash drive, drive to the other side of the country, and hand it to your friend before he can finish downloading it off the internet, lol. "We outrun the internet".

Looking at the size of GTA V for example, he'd be right.

[MageTank]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

Looking at the size of GTA V for example, he'd be right.

Or ESO (60GB not even counting the 6gb weekly patches, lol)

[Dabombinable]

19 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Just don't bring any unprocessed foods and clean your shoes, no dirt allowed else you'll be sent packing at the border. We may have lax policie but there are two authorities you never mess with over here: Border Security and Fisheries Officers (if you so much as catch 1 fish too many or too small they can and will take your boat and car, if serious offences your house too)

So I can't bring a bag of snakes over then to scare the Kiwi's

[Dylanc1500]

15 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

The nodes are fed by two fibers but they are typically duplex so one fiber is down and one is up. I have yet to see a node fed with redundancy in mind in the field. 

 

Also you might think 1 gb is a joke but until you look at a core router netflow you rarely see people fully utilize a pipe. We have a 10gb pipe to that feeds a college and its dorms and around 2500 customers. And at peak utilization you see use of around 4gbps. Thats around 10k people (not sure how much are active at the dorm but 80% comes from there) and only peak at 4gbps. 

 

FTTN is not really in its early days as its been deployed for a few years but the problem lies with the copper on the other end not the nodes them selves

I don't understand why they are running nodes that way in certain areas (within the U.S.) We have a 40gb trunk line that runs into my office from AT&T. Knowing that information, I called them and asked if I paid to run fiber from my closest node (cost me roughly $375) what speeds they would allow. Needless to say, to my house, I am running 5Gb/s to my switch. All for $97 a month. You'd be surprised what they will offer you if you're willing to pay for install requirements.

 

Edit: and you also talk to someone at the companies other than customer service that is technologically inclined.

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

The nodes are fed by two fibers but they are typically duplex so one fiber is down and one is up. I have yet to see a node fed with redundancy in mind in the field. 

 

Also you might think 1 gb is a joke but until you look at a core router netflow you rarely see people fully utilize a pipe. We have a 10gb pipe to that feeds a college and its dorms and around 2500 customers. And at peak utilization you see use of around 4gbps. Thats around 10k people (not sure how much are active at the dorm but 80% comes from there) and only peak at 4gbps. 

 

FTTN is not really in its early days as its been deployed for a few years but the problem lies with the copper on the other end not the nodes them selves

The line rates of those fibres feeding the nodes should be higher now with new installs though? Pretty sure they are here in the towns that are allowed to offer 1Gbps services to homes.

 

Also that college connection is actually on a different network to NBN too though right? All schools, clinics, libraries etc here in NZ got deployed separately to the UFB network and actually use physically different fibre runs and isn't GPON.

 

For us it's different again, we're on whats known as the REANNZ network but we operate our own AS and control all the public/private BGP routing between campuses which have multiple 10Gb connections each with the capability to use 40Gb if we wish and the backbone of the network is currently been upgraded to 100Gb equipment an optics. We mostly use this network to replicate production storage and also backups across campuses, a luxury we're more than willing to make use of.

[Dabombinable]

Just now, Dylanc1500 said:

I don't understand why they are running nodes that way in certain areas (within the U.S.) We have a 40gb trunk line that runs into my office from AT&T. Knowing that information, I called them and asked if I paid to run fiber from my closest node (cost me roughly $375) what speeds they would allow. Needless to say, to my house, I am running 5Gb/s to my switch. All for $97 a month. You'd be surprised what they will offer you if you're willing to pay for install requirements.

Unfortunately, the ISP are that retarded over here that they won't do the work even if you pay for it (or get given $4billion by the government to do it)

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

I don't understand why they are running nodes that way in certain areas (within the U.S.) We have a 40gb trunk line that runs into my office from AT&T. Knowing that information, I called them and asked if I paid to run fiber from my closest node (cost me roughly $375) what speeds they would allow. Needless to say, to my house, I am running 5Gb/s to my switch. All for $97 a month. You'd be surprised what they will offer you if you're willing to pay for install requirements.

 

2 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Unfortunately, the ISP are that retarded over here that they won't do the work even if you pay for it (or get given $4billion by the government to do it)

Same here, I tried to get fibre run once and said money no object just get it done. The answer was no.

[Dabombinable]

Just now, leadeater said:

 

Same here, I tried to get fibre run once and said money no object just get it done. The answer was no.

Because, they really don't give a fuck:

 

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

Because, they really don't give a fuck:

 

Bottom line: FUCK YOU!!