laptop 6th Gen i7 or 7th Gen i5 | LAPTOP EDITION

[deboo]

Okay, I know this is a super vague kind of question, but my question is particularly related to the new Intel Core i5-7200U for laptops, released only recently. Should I go for a laptop based on that "Latest 7th Gen i5 based laptop buying advice",  or am I better off looking for a previous gen i7 in that segment?

[Morgan MLGman]

6 gen i7 >>> 7 gen i5.

[Pendragon]

2 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

6 gen i7 >>> 7 gen i5.

it's basically the same thing

 

2 hours ago, deboo said:

Intel Core i5-7200U

Literally doesn't matter. ULV CPUs perform within 2-3% of each other. It really doesn't matter. GPU's matter alot more for gaming.

[Morgan MLGman]

1 minute ago, Pendragon said:

it's basically the same thing

 

Literally doesn't matter. ULV CPUs perform within 2-3% of each other. It really doesn't matter. GPU's matter alot more for gaming.

i7's have more L3 Cache

[Pendragon]

31 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

i7's have more L3 Cache

Hence it's basically the same thing. LOL. How is more L3 Cache going help on shitty ULV cores.

[Morgan MLGman]

1 minute ago, Pendragon said:

Hence it's basically the same thing. LOL. How is more L3 Cache going help on shitty ULV cores.

It might increase performance in some cases. Besides, there are different models of i5's and i7's with different core count and they're not all the same.

[Pendragon]

Just now, Morgan MLGman said:

It might increase performance in some cases. Besides, there are different models of i5's and i7's with different core count and they're not all the same.

...not really. LOL. Maybe in synthetics. He specifically asked about U series processors. 

[deboo]

38 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

it's basically the same thing

 

Literally doesn't matter. ULV CPUs perform within 2-3% of each other. It really doesn't matter. GPU's matter alot more for gaming.

 

In that case, an i7 would be better (for its resale value), would it not?

I mainly need it for: heavy multitasking, all-day general computer'ing, modest gaming, photoshop

[Pendragon]

Just now, deboo said:

I mainly need it for: heavy multitasking, all-day general computer'ing, modest gaming, photoshop

Then dear god why are you getting a ULV series chip. 

[Morgan MLGman]

Just now, Pendragon said:

...not really. LOL. Maybe in synthetics. He specifically asked about U series processors. 

Eh. Dude, you need to understand the importance of Cache in CPUs. Do you know why an i7-6700K is superior in gaming to an i5-6600K? That's not only due to HyperThreading.

 

 

"not really" Kappa

[deboo]

1 minute ago, Pendragon said:

Then dear god why are you getting a ULV series chip. 

haha, good question. I also need portability.

I've been running fine for 2 years with an i7-3610QM on an ASUS KV55M.

And I really need my machine on-the-go, so I can't give up portability...

[deboo]

4 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Eh. Dude, you need to understand the importance of Cache in CPUs. Do you know why an i7-6700K is superior in gaming to an i5-6600K? That's not only due to HyperThreading.

 

 

"not really" Kappa

 

Mr Freeman, you're saying "Go for the i7?"

[Morgan MLGman]

Just now, deboo said:

Mr Freeman, you're saying "Go for the i7?"

Pretty much. A general rule of thumb is: last gen i7 > current gen i5. But you should compare specific CPU models in terms of performance difference, cpu.userbenchmark.com is a good site to do that. But the i7 should be faster.

[Pendragon]

12 minutes ago, deboo said:

I've been running fine for 2 years with an i7-3610QM on an ASUS KV55M.

That will run faster than a ULV chip. That's a good quad core. I still have that on my Macbook 2012

 

14 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Eh. Dude, you need to understand the importance of Cache in CPUs. Do you know why an i7-6700K is superior in gaming to an i5-6600K? That's not only due to HyperThreading.

LOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOL IM ACTUALLY DYING.

a) You linked me a wccftech article

b) The benchmarks LITERALLY show what I said. Doesn't matter. i5 vs i7 ulv is a difference between 3mb and 4mb of L3 cache TWO WHOLE PERCENT. WOW. GOOD PERFORMANCE. And also 2% on a ULV chip say hypothetically running CSGO at 30fps is like 0.6 fps more. WOW. i7s are also advertised ALOT more expensive. Also taking into account his original question of whether he should get Skylake I7 ULV or Kaby Lake i5 ULV the TWO WHOLE PERCENT is offset by IPC increases in the architecture improvement.

 

Beyond that improvements to HD intel graphics MASSIVELY offset what bullshit performance increase you get from l3 cache. installing faster RAM will get you 2% faster LOL.

[Pendragon]

14 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

last gen i7 > current gen i5

Also untrue for ULV cpus. 

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i5-7200U-Notebook-Processor.172250.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i7-6500U-Notebook-Processor.149431.0.html

 

It's only true for quad cores where HT actually becomes a factor. 8 slightly slower threads at a faster clock is better than 4 faster threads.

[Morgan MLGman]

26 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

LOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOL IM ACTUALLY DYING.

a) You linked me a wccftech article

b) The benchmarks LITERALLY show what I said. Doesn't matter. i5 vs i7 ulv is a difference between 3mb and 4mb of L3 cache TWO WHOLE PERCENT. WOW. GOOD PERFORMANCE. And also 2% on a ULV chip say hypothetically running CSGO at 30fps is like 0.6 fps more. WOW. i7s are also advertised ALOT more expensive. Also taking into account his original question of whether he should get Skylake I7 ULV or Kaby Lake i5 ULV the TWO WHOLE PERCENT is offset by IPC increases in the architecture improvement.

 

Beyond that improvements to HD intel graphics MASSIVELY offset what bullshit performance increase you get from l3 cache. installing faster RAM will get you 2% faster LOL.

a) the testing was not done by wccftech, they only reported the results.

b) OP is going to have a dedicated GPU in his laptop (judged by his previous thread)

c) 2% gaming performance due to only 1MB more cache in an i7, Kaby will have practically no performance improvements in terms of IPC over Skylake from what every benchmark shows.

d) OP NEVER mentioned that he wants to get an "U" version of the i7.

And assuming that he wants a ULV chip, who said that he has to get the 6500U? Where is that coming from? Are you a psychic? There's also i7-6567U which is up to 14% faster than an i7-6500U. It also features the Intel Iris 550 iGPU which is 70% faster than the HD 520 found in the 6500U.

 

That's your problem, your arguments are based mostly of assumptions, not actual facts.

[Pendragon]

24 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

And assuming that he wants a ULV chip, who said that he has to get the 6500U? Where is that coming from? Are you a psychic? There's also i7-6567U which is up to 14% faster than an i7-6500U. It also features the Intel Iris 550 iGPU which is 70% faster than the HD 520 found in the 6500U.

 

3 hours ago, deboo said:

but my question is particularly related to the new Intel Core i5-7200U for laptops

I can read. 

 

26 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

c) 2% gaming performance due to only 1MB more cache in an i7, Kaby will have practically no performance improvements in terms of IPC over Skylake from what every benchmark shows.

 

45 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i5-7200U-Notebook-Processor.172250.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i7-6500U-Notebook-Processor.149431.0.html

Please read.

[Morgan MLGman]

4 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

I can read. 

 

 

Please read.

Oh I did read it, question is, have you?. OP only mentioned the ULV i5, never the i7.

 

He asked whether he should get that particular i5 or a previous-gen i7 in that price segment.

[Pendragon]

4 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Oh I did read it, question is, have you?. OP only mentioned the ULV i5, never the i7.

Hmmm, should I get a i5 ULV or a full fledged i7 quad core. Such decisions. Idk, 4C/8T or 2C/2T. Shit. I think it's pretty obvious we're talking about ULV's here. If he's talking about comparing a Skylake quad core vs kaby lake duo core, no shit the i7 wins. My point is there is barely any difference between last gen i7 ulv and current gen i5 ulv. 

[Morgan MLGman]

Just now, Pendragon said:

Hmmm, should I get a i5 ULV or a full fledged i7 quad core. Such decisions. Idk, 4C/8T or 2C/2T. Shit. I think it's pretty obvious we're talking about ULV's here. 

Not necessarily. Remember that price is the most important thing in like 90%+ of cases, it depends on the pricing which i7 he can get, it's HIGHLY unlikely that he specifically wants the ULV i7. What is more likely is that he found some similarly-priced laptops with that ULV i5 he mentioned and asked whether it'd better to get a previous-gen i7 instead cause those can be similarly priced due to them being previous-gen and installed in older laptop models. He never said anything about ULV.

 

He also never said which i7 model and yet, you purposefully compared that i5 with the slowest ULV 6th gen i7 to prove your point, while in a worst-case scenario those CPUs are equal, the i7 might have an edge in some tasks that do benefit from the L3 cache anyway. There are also FOUR faster versions of the ULV 6th gen i7.

[Pendragon]

11 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

snip

Well most quad cores are priced higher than ULV chips. If we don't define the difference between ULV and quad core then the argument becomes cluttered as fuck.

 

11 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

He also never said which i7 model and yet, you purposefully compared that i5 with the slowest ULV 6th gen i7 to prove your point, while in a worst-case scenario those CPUs are equal, the i7 might have an edge in some tasks that do benefit from the L3 cache anyway. There are also FOUR faster versions of the ULV 6th gen i7.

Yea but I also used the slowest Kaby Lake i5... And it's not worse case scenario. Across all the benchmarks it's literally within margin of error with each other. The thing is with the faster ULV i7 6th gens is that the RAPIDLY ramp up in price. Any models containing i7-6567U is EXTREMELY expensive compared to the rest of the line up. And that's also because they have faster graphics chip. Either with the intel HD540 or HD550 chips part of intel's iris pro series. Intel aint making Iris Pro chips for the Kaby Lake series sooo you can't compare them. And also faster i5 Kaby Lake ULV Cpus haven't been released. So we can only compare the slowest ones.

[Morgan MLGman]

Just now, Pendragon said:

Any models containing i7-6567U is EXTREMELY expensive compared to the rest of the line up. 

Yes, the price difference is because that particular i7 contains the Iris 550 graphics which is 70% faster than a HD 520 in the cheapest ULV chips. CPU-wise it's only 14% faster due to higher clocks.

 

1 minute ago, Pendragon said:

Well most quad cores are priced higher than ULV chips. If we don't define the difference between ULV and quad core then the argument becomes cluttered as fuck.

That is not necessarily true, I work in an IT company and one small part of my job is to find specific hardware based on weirdly-written specifications if that makes any sense, it's a pre-sales thing. Regardless, I often have laptops to find and laptops with very different CPUs might have similar prices and sometimes faster CPU-based laptops are cheaper than the ones with slower CPUs just because there's a generation difference between them. Black Friday is right around the corner and last-gen CPU based laptops might get huge discounts cause manufacturers want to sell them out, that's why he might get a faster last-gen i7 at the price of a new-gen i5

[Pendragon]

7 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

That is not necessarily true, I work in an IT company and one small part of my job is to find specific hardware based on weirdly-written specifications if that makes any sense, it's a pre-sales thing. Regardless, I often have laptops to find and laptops with very different CPUs might have similar prices and sometimes faster CPU-based laptops are cheaper than the ones with slower CPUs just because there's a generation difference between them. Black Friday is right around the corner and last-gen CPU based laptops might get huge discounts cause manufacturers want to sell them out, that's why he might get a faster last-gen i7 at the price of a new-gen i5

It's 100% true right now. There is no "last-gen" quad core right now. the quad core i7s are current gen. cause quad core kaby lakes haven't been released. Given the Kaby lake desktop line up hasn't even been released yet, we're expecting Q1 2017 until the mobile series drops. Everything is down to price at this point. the lowest priced quad core i7 has consistently retailed at around 700-800 dollars give or take at it's cheapest. usual in the asus or lenovo ideapads. Most ULV cpus laptops have options below that. Given there are more expensive options like XPS13s, unless you taking premium ultrabooks, the ulv will be priced below 800 dollars. 

 

7 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Yes, the price difference is because that particular i7 contains the Iris 550 graphics which is 70% faster than a HD 520 in the cheapest ULV chips. CPU-wise it's only 14% faster due to higher clocks.

ik, i mentioned that. I said you can't compare these higher priced ones to the i5 kaby lakes because intel isn't even making iris pro version of the kaby lake lineup. 

[Dackzy]

35 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Oh I did read it, question is, have you?. OP only mentioned the ULV i5, never the i7.

 

He asked whether he should get that particular i5 or a previous-gen i7 in that price segment.

look at the link he has

 

[deboo]

Wow.

You two teach a lot of stuff when you argue... Thanks!