5400rpm HDD's Need to Die

[MEC-777]

Why are these still being paired with mid-range to high-end laptops??? I get that they are lower power (barely) and cheap. But from what I understand, most people don't need 1TB or even 500GB of storage on laptops. A lot of people don't need more than 256GB. It would make more sense to me to have mid-rage and higher-end laptops come standard with 256-480GB SSD instead (I know some of the higher-end ones do). If you need more space you can always get an external drive. 

 

I just got a really good deal on a decently powerful gaming laptop (i5-5200u, 8GB, 940M) but it's such a let-down and is agonizingly slow with the 5400rpm 1TB HDD it comes with. I don't need a full 1TB of storage on this thing and will be replacing it most likely with a 480GB SSD very soon. SSD's are stating to get much more affordable and people don't need huge amounts of storage for the most part with everything being "online" these days. I also believe people would probably gladly pay a little more to get the screaming fast speeds of an SSD at the expense of less storage if they were to experience and see the difference in person. 

 

At least make the minimum standard as 7200rpm drives and nothing less. 

 

Just a little rant. What do you guys think? 

[LynxThe1st]

I see no fucking problem with 5400RPM drives

Got one my self, and I don't see no fucking thing wrong with it

Unless they release the black death or a plague then sure, I'll destroy it, but until we have a REASON to get rid of them I ain't gettin' rid of mine any time soon

[Arc_Jester]

I wasn't aware those still came as standard, my laptop from 2008 came with one and I replaced it with a 7200rpm one a week later because it was so slow. 

[Theo]

I had to use a 5400rpm laptop drive for 3 days before i got my SSD, almost contemplated suicide 

[79wjd]

It could still be from a marketing standpoint. To the average consumer a 1TB HDD > 250GB SSD. Remember, the average consumer doesn't know the difference between an HDD and an SSD. 

 

Plus HDDs are still cheaper for the manufacturers. And think about all the corners that get cut to save even pennies (case manufacturers are a prime example of this). 

[I am an SSD]

3 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

Why are these still being paired with mid-range to high-end laptops??? I get that they are lower power (barely) and cheap. But from what I understand, most people don't need 1TB or even 500GB of storage on laptops. A lot of people don't need more than 256GB. It would make more sense to me to have mid-rage and higher-end laptops come standard with 256-480GB SSD instead (I know some of the higher-end ones do). If you need more space you can always get an external drive. 

 

I just got a really good deal on a decently powerful gaming laptop (i5-5200u, 8GB, 940M) but it's such a let-down and is agonizingly slow with the 5400rpm 1TB HDD it comes with. I don't need a full 1TB of storage on this thing and will be replacing it most likely with a 480GB SSD very soon. SSD's are stating to get much more affordable and people don't need huge amounts of storage for the most part with everything being "online" these days. I also believe people would probably gladly pay a little more to get the screaming fast speeds of an SSD at the expense of less storage if they were to experience and see the difference in person. 

 

At least make the minimum standard as 7200rpm drives and nothing less. 

 

Just a little rant. What do you guys think? 

I personally dont see any problem with 5400 rpm harddrives as long as they help make laptops cheaper. 

 

And you're a little wrong when you say that laptop users dont require storage. Some people are constantly on the move because  of the requirements of their respective jobs/ whatever else. They want reliable and convenient storage, not necessarily fast. Think movies, photos, maybe even games (not everyone cares so much about loading times). And they probably dont want to lug around an external harddrive they'll have to keep with themselves all the time anyway.

 

Boot times are not as much of a problem as it used to be with the windows 10 method of "hibernating" the harddrive whenever the system shuts down. 

 

The major places we'll be wanting for more is for Large file transfers, and thats not as big a sacrifice to make for some people. For the others, they'll know enough to buy a more expensive model with an SSD or fit one in themselves. 

 

Bottom line is, usage varies. It is more important to let people know about the different types of storage available than eliminating something entirely, so people can make an informed decision. 

[LynxThe1st]

6 minutes ago, I am an SSD said:

They want reliable and convenient storage, not necessarily fast.

Ex-fucking-actly

 

If a SSD fails, that's it

 

You.

are.

fucked.

 

HDDs on the other hand, can be repaired and their data too

 

Even if they can be repaired, it won't be fucking cheap

[Theo]

2 minutes ago, LynxThe1st said:

Ex-fucking-actly

 

If a SSD fails, that's it

 

You.

are.

fucked.

 

HDDs on the other hand, can be repaired and their data too

 

Even if they can be repaired, it won't be fucking cheap

Yeah you know SSD's are more reliable than HDD's right? Specially in a use case scenario that the user could be moving around while the laptop is on.

HDD's sure love some extra vibrations.

[MEC-777]

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

It could still be from a marketing standpoint. To the average consumer a 1TB HDD > 250GB SSD. Remember, the average consumer doesn't know the difference between an HDD and an SSD. 

 

Plus HDDs are still cheaper for the manufacturers. And think about all the corners that get cut to save even pennies (case manufacturers are a prime example of this). 

Totally. I get that to the average consumer 1TB > 250GB. However, when shown the difference and if they don't need the capacity, I bet they'd be quick to make the trade off. One customer I had this week did. He can't believe how fast it is now and is very happy with his 6 year old machine that now has new life. He was considering getting a new one, but isn't anymore.  

1 minute ago, I am an SSD said:

I personally dont see any problem with 5400 rpm harddrives as long as they help make laptops cheaper. 

 

And you're a little wrong when you say that laptop users dont require storage. Some people are constantly on the move because  of the requirements of their respective jobs/ whatever else. They want reliable and convenient storage, not necessarily fast. Think movies, photos, maybe even games (not everyone cares so much about loading times). And they probably dont want to lug around an external harddrive they'll have to keep with themselves all the time anyway.

 

Boot times are not as much of a problem as it used to be with the windows 10 method of "hibernating" the harddrive whenever the system shuts down. 

 

The major places we'll be wanting for more is for Large file transfers, and thats not as big a sacrifice to make for some people. For the others, they'll know enough to buy a more expensive model with an SSD or fit one in themselves. 

 

Bottom line is, usage varies. It is more important to let people know about the different types of storage available than eliminating something entirely, so people can make an informed decision. 

All very good points and yes, some people do need the storage. I'm not referring to those people. If you do need the capacity, by all means, go for the larger slower HDD's. I'm talking about those who don't need 1TB or even 500GB. They go on using their laptop, unhappy with the performance when they could have something much faster and more enjoyable to use. 

 

In terms of reliability, I would argue that an SSD is the more reliable storage option for laptops. Mobile devices get "tossed" around. Mechanical HDD's do not like being moved when the disc is spinning and that is actually one of the main causes of pre-mature HDD death in laptops. Owner closes the lid, picks it up to move it around and turns it up on it's side, runs down a flight of stairs etc. - all while the disc is still spinning and fingers moving. Not good for the health of the drive. An SSD doesn't care what you do with it, no moving parts.  

[MEC-777]

18 minutes ago, LynxThe1st said:

I see no fucking problem with 5400RPM drives

Got one my self, and I don't see no fucking thing wrong with it

Unless they release the black death or a plague then sure, I'll destroy it, but until we have a REASON to get rid of them I ain't gettin' rid of mine any time soon

 

5 minutes ago, LynxThe1st said:

Ex-fucking-actly

 

If a SSD fails, that's it

 

You.

are.

fucked.

 

HDDs on the other hand, can be repaired and their data too

 

Even if they can be repaired, it won't be fucking cheap

Just curious, what's with all the swearing? 

 

I know plenty of members casually swear on this forums and it doesn't bother me. Just haven't seen anyone use it as much as you over the course of two posts, lol. 

 

So, question for you, since you see nothing wrong with 5400rpm drives... If you don't need the capacity, you'd still rather have a slow mechanical drive over a much faster SSD in a device where movement can kill mechanical drives?

[LynxThe1st]

4 minutes ago, Theo said:

Yeah you know SSD's are more reliable than HDD's right? Specially in a use case scenario that the user could be moving around while the laptop is on.

HDD's sure love some extra vibrations.

But please, please, how would you recover an SSD?

Even if the HDD did wiggle and jiggle it would suffer damage, yes I won't argue with that, but when the fuck will you move your laptop everywhere on weird ass angles?

4 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

Mobile devices get "tossed" around. Mechanical HDD's do not like being moved when the disc is spinning and that is actually one of the main causes of pre-mature HDD death in laptops. Owner closes the lid, picks it up to move it around and turns it up on it's side, runs down a flight of stairs etc. - all while the disc is still spinning and fingers moving. Not good for the health of the drive. An SSD doesn't care what you do with it, no moving parts.  

Most people keep it vertical or horizontal not on a 45 degree angle or some other

[Theo]

Just now, LynxThe1st said:

But please, please, how would you recover an SSD?

Even if the HDD did wiggle and jiggle it would suffer damage, yes I won't argue with that, but when the fuck will you move your laptop everywhere on weird ass angles?

Most people keep it vertical or horizontal not on a 45 degree angle or some other

There are ways to actually get data off an SSD, read it somewhere.  

Also 99% of the users wont bother to even attempt an hdd recovery. 

In my bag, or if im moving from room to room, or if im just changing position.

[I am an SSD]

4 minutes ago, LynxThe1st said:

 

Even if the HDD did wiggle and jiggle it would suffer damage, yes I won't argue with that, but when the fuck will you move your laptop everywhere on weird ass angles?

 

Ah you have clearly never met my friends.....

 

Also what if you have to jump from a moving train? 

Or use the webcam to capture your experiences on a rollercoaster, or while skydiving. 

Or have to use Google Maps to check where you're going while dirtbiking?

 

But seriously, that isnt a very good point, since the laptop is mobile, casual users wont mind moving it around at will, and while the HDD most likely wont give up the ghost, it still can.

[Arc_Jester]

14 minutes ago, LynxThe1st said:

-snip-

 

2 minutes ago, Theo said:

-snip-

If an SSD fails you can still take files off of it you just can't write anything new to it but with a HDD most of the time those files are gone for good.

[MEC-777]

12 minutes ago, LynxThe1st said:

But please, please, how would you recover an SSD?

Even if the HDD did wiggle and jiggle it would suffer damage, yes I won't argue with that, but when the fuck will you move your laptop everywhere on weird ass angles?

Most people keep it vertical or horizontal not on a 45 degree angle or some other

It's not the angle/position. It's the change of angle/position  while the drive is in use that causes the damage.  

 

I have seen so many laptops get moved around, bumped, picked up etc. while in use. It happens far more that you'd think. People are rough on their stuff. 

 

As for loosing data, that's why you should keep a regular backup of all important data in at least one other location outside of the device. 

[I am an SSD]

12 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

All very good points and yes, some people do need the storage. I'm not referring to those people. If you do need the capacity, by all means, go for the larger slower HDD's. I'm talking about those who don't need 1TB or even 500GB. They go on using their laptop, unhappy with the performance when they could have something much faster and more enjoyable to use. 

 

In terms of reliability, I would argue that an SSD is the more reliable storage option for laptops. Mobile devices get "tossed" around. Mechanical HDD's do not like being moved when the disc is spinning and that is actually one of the main causes of pre-mature HDD death in laptops. Owner closes the lid, picks it up to move it around and turns it up on it's side, runs down a flight of stairs etc. - all while the disc is still spinning and fingers moving. Not good for the health of the drive. An SSD doesn't care what you do with it, no moving parts.  

Of course, and hence my point about user scenario based purchases...we can completely kill off 5400rpm hardrives now as you suggested can we? 

 

and I totally agree here. Many people (including myself at some point of time in my life Im sure) tend to move the laptop when its shutting down, or when put to sleep. While the HDD has never failed due to this..its possible. 

 

but the price...the price is what matters for many people like college students/ companies which buy in bulk . And slow and unreliable as they may be, they do allow for some spare change in the pocket.

[LynxThe1st]

29 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

 

Just curious, what's with all the swearing? 

 

I know plenty of members casually swear on this forums and it doesn't bother me. Just haven't seen anyone use it as much as you over the course of two posts, lol.

I'm a dickhead?

 

eh I lost

you guys win

ssd's are better

hdd peasant ;-;

[79wjd]

10 minutes ago, Arc_Jester said:

 

If an SSD fails you can still take files off of it you just can't write anything new to it but with a HDD most of the time those files are gone for good.

It's the other way around. Generally HDD recovery is FARRR easier than SSD recovery. 

[RedWulf]

Why are low quality screens still used on some laptops, why aren't fiber connections built in, why aren't all usb ports >2.0 and type C, why aren't optical disk eliminated entirely, why do laptop use various power connections, why is ram with high latency and low rate used

 

[MEC-777]

1 minute ago, I am an SSD said:

Of course, and hence my point about user scenario based purchases...we can completely kill off 5400rpm hardrives now as you suggested can we? 

 

and I totally agree here. Many people (including myself at some point of time in my life Im sure) tend to move the laptop when its shutting down, or when put to sleep. While the HDD has never failed due to this..its possible. 

 

but the price...the price is what matters for many people like college students/ companies which buy in bulk . And slow and unreliable as they may be, they do allow for some spare change in the pocket.

Is there that much of a difference in cost between a 5400 and a 7200? Not much from what research I have done. Over mass-produced devices, yeah, that cost difference adds up I suppose. 

 

As for the user scenario, I don't see an issue with offering the option. Do you want speed with lower capacity or less speed with more capacity - both at very similar costs, the faster being a little more expensive. There's very little no laptops out there below $800 with even the option for an SSD. I just disagree with that and don't believe it has to be that way. 

 

My old laptop is like 8 years old an cost about $450 when I bought it new. It's far from a high-end unit, yet it came with at least a 7200rpm drive. Now this $700+ gaming laptop (that I only paid $450 for ) comes with fairly decent specs (definitely more higher-end than my old laptop), yet is horribly crippled by the 5400rpm drive. It just doesn't make sense to have a 5400 at that price point, IMO. 

[RedWulf]

13 minutes ago, Arc_Jester said:

 

If an SSD fails you can still take files off of it you just can't write anything new to it but with a HDD most of the time those files are gone for good.

um... one is mechanically ingrained in the disk the other is a matter of charge. Even if you ignored the relative world of data recovery, a common sense view would still lead to the opposite conclusion

[Arc_Jester]

17 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

It's the other way around. Generally HDD recovery is FARRR easier than SSD recovery. 

9 minutes ago, RedWulf said:

um... one is mechanically ingrained in the disk the other is a matter of charge. Even if you ignored the relative world of data recovery, a common sense view would still lead to the opposite conclusion

I'm talking about end of life failure, when an SSD runs out of writes you can still recover the data but with a HDD there is a high chance that data won't be recovered or the drive will be thrown away without trying.When it comes to a hardware failure I am much more comfortable replacing surface mount components than I am tinkering with a HDD but that's just me.

[I am an SSD]

Just now, MEC-777 said:

Is there that much of a difference in cost between a 5400 and a 7200? Not much from what research I have done. Over mass-produced devices, yeah, that cost difference adds up I suppose. 

 

As for the user scenario, I don't see an issue with offering the option. Do you want speed with lower capacity or less speed with more capacity - both at very similar costs, the faster being a little more expensive. There's very little no laptops out there below $800 with even the option for an SSD. I just disagree with that and don't believe it has to be that way. 

 

My old laptop is like 8 years old an cost about $450 when I bought it new. It's far from a high-end unit, yet it came with at least a 7200rpm drive. Now this $700+ gaming laptop (that I only paid $450 for ) comes with fairly decent specs (definitely more higher-end than my old laptop), yet is horribly crippled by the 5400rpm drive. It just doesn't make sense to have a 5400 at that price point, IMO. 

Of course the cost difference adds up. Do you know how much motherboard manufacturers would gain by if they didnt include zipties along with the product?

 

Yeah I would like to option to be provided too. Its just that manufacturers dont believe us to be possessing knowledge more than "i7 is better than i5" . So they try to make the process of buying one more seamless and less profitable for us. Cant blame them. Can you imagine how daunting it would be to choose all components for someone not remotely interested in tech when they could just walk into a competitors store and get out of there with a laptop in just 10 minutes....

 

Why dont you buy a 480 gig SSD on amazon and replace the slow 5400 rpm one in your laptop? Since you got the device for 450, it wouldnt be that much expense when looking at the performance upgrade?

[I am an SSD]

6 minutes ago, RedWulf said:

um... one is mechanically ingrained in the disk the other is a matter of charge. Even if you ignored the relative world of data recovery, a common sense view would still lead to the opposite conclusion

Yeah I never understood how people would put everything at the risk of a few electrons moving from one place to another. granted its much faster, but even then...

[MEC-777]

1 minute ago, I am an SSD said:

Of course the cost difference adds up. Do you know how much motherboard manufacturers would gain by if they didnt include zipties along with the product?

 

Yeah I would like to option to be provided too. Its just that manufacturers dont believe us to be possessing knowledge more than "i7 is better than i5" . So they try to make the process of buying one more seamless and less profitable for us. Cant blame them. Can you imagine how daunting it would be to choose all components for someone not remotely interested in tech when they could just walk into a competitors store and get out of there with a laptop in just 10 minutes....

 

Why dont you buy a 480 gig SSD on amazon and replace the slow 5400 rpm one in your laptop? Since you got the device for 450, it wouldnt be that much expense when looking at the performance upgrade?

Yeah, I totally get why they have done it. It just doesn't make complete sense to me why we find 5400's instead of 7200's at higher price points. But alas, I digress.  This thread is just more of a place to rant for me. lol. 

 

It's at least good that the manufacturers make these devices so that we can upgrade such components if we choose. 

 

That is exactly what I plan on doing - 480GB SSD all the way.