New amd processors?

[Krytopsy]

I am ahah, I follow what compagnies do and AMD are the worst all them. As an exemple, a not so long time ago they were marketing their new FX-9590 processor as the first stock speed processor that is clocked at 5 Ghz without having the user to overclock it himself and how fast their processor was about to be. Benchmarks arrived showing i7 mainstream processors beating by a large margin in any process, even the FX-9590 had a thermal power design of 220 watts while the mainstream i7 is under 88 watts, their 220 watts wasn't enough to deliver more performance over the i7. We started hearing about the 220 watts TDP burning the VRM (voltage regulator modules) of motherboards making them defective. We knew i7 mainstream was about 320-360$ maximum, knowing all those downside of their FX-9590 we got their MSRP (manufacturer's suggested retail price), about 1000$. Few months after the release of that chip, their price was about 300$. What a hit to the AMD loyals fans that bought that processor in the first three months for 1000$. So as today we still see many AMD fans bragging how processor power is all about frequency like processor architecture doesn't matter.

[Veil]

Yes, AMD certainly is the devil incarnate. Those dastardly fiends trying to sell high performance products at an enormous premium.

We're all better off with out AMD focusing on innovation and pushing Intel. I'm just glad that I have had to stop upgrading my CPU every two years and my i7-920 is still relevant in everything I do from 2008 to now. No more fretting about new sockets every few years. No more worrying about which new instruction set I'll need

It's such a relief knowing that Intel has given up on performance, and over clocking, and focused on low power solutions that compete with ARM.

What was your point in this thread about AMD processors again?

[MarvinKMooney]

Nha intel all the way !!!!! amd sucks they can continue to make crappy apu's for game consoles but true performance is with intel.

So happy to have such well thought out comments.

[nick99n]

if amd does not do something good at 2016 it is so f**ked up i don't think they will beat intel but at least catch up a little 

[nokturrduk84]

AMD cpus are crap & everyone knows it except their hardcore fanboys. I don't know... If they don't make anything on new architecture, I think this company will disappear at all in CPU market. They do lots of mistakes in marketing, like releasing CPU with 900$ & then dropping it's price to 250$... What a silly step. They dropped it cause they realized they fucked up with that product. Very immature company, indeed. All smart techies avoid their CPUs. Even their marketing puppet - Logan from teksyndicate uses Intel CPU in his own rig, however he is AMD shill.

[vm'N]

AMD cpus are crap & everyone knows it except their hardcore fanboys. I don't know... If they don't make anything on new architecture, I think this company will disappear at all in CPU market.

No, AMD is currently pretty stabile.

Also having both ARM and x86 opens a lot of opportunities.

[juretrn]

New architecure is great, of course, but I'll eat my (nonexistent) hat if something revolutionary comes from this. 

[rentaspoon]

AMD cpus are crap & everyone knows it except their hardcore fanboys.

One hardcore fanboy here then or was it because it hit 60fps with processing room to spare

[Sintezza]

Atleast AMD doesnt have a fsin bug

[harrynowl]

Atleast AMD doesnt have a fsin bug

AMD CPUs have had errata in the past

[Sintezza]

AMD CPUs have had errata in the past

 

but thats the past

[c0d0ps]

Right now AMD architecture uses cluster based multithreading. Each module can have two threads running but can actually only execute a single thread at a time. Intel uses SMT, which means they can execute two threads at the same time. AMD's shared cache and FlexFPU are SMT, but they dropped the ball on the integer side of things otherwise FX would be some number crunching monsters.

Ok, thanks this was easier to understand.

[Veil]

So happy to have such well thought out comments.

[c0d0ps]

Guys please stop fighting about team red vs blue keep it relevant.

[c0d0ps]

Are the mods asleep? Or is this usually encouraged here? I'm kinda new.

I am pretty sure he was sarcastic but I am also new and I haven't seen a single mod in my time here.

[harrynowl]

but thats the past

This fsin thing is kind of the past though isn't it?

 

I thought it effected their 65nm Core lineup from what I read.

[typographie]

So it's ok to just come in and take a big turd on a thread with irrelevant posts?

If that's the case then fuck this place.

 

Heh, of all the threads on tech forums I've seen devolve into ridiculous brand cheerleading, this is probably the tamest. Things are much better here than most places.

[harrynowl]

So it's ok to just come in and take a big turd on a thread with irrelevant posts?

If that's the case then fuck this place.

It's not considered acceptable no, remember the mods probably have lives and places to be too, they moderate in their spare time to help the community.

 

Problem is AMD CPUs are a touchy topic and some people can't contain themselves. The first few responses on the 1st page were excellent. Then someone started the "intel are faster screw amd" thing and now we have this.

 

If the mods feel a thread is answered they'll lock it if people can't constrain themselves, otherwise they'll run cleanup.

[c0d0ps]

So it's ok to just come in and take a big turd on a thread with irrelevant posts?

If that's the case then fuck this place.

I almost never see people fighting in this site but they will do it sooner or later no matter where you go.

I really enjoy this site. 

Easy to use, fast good answer and stuff.

[rentaspoon]

Are the mods asleep? Or is this usually encouraged here? I'm kinda new.

Threads like these are good to figure out who knows what but trust me this is tame and we don't stick to topic all the time and that's what keeps the conversation flowing and IMO one of the best communities about although I wish the AMD hate wasn't as bad as it is, I've seen that go from bad to worse.

I keep an eye out for people asking about AMDs purely because I see a lot of hate and not a lot of help.

Also I hate bar graphs

[Sintezza]

This fsin thing is kind of the past though isn't it?

 

I thought it effected their 65nm Core lineup from what I read.

 

no its a haswell bug.

maybe one of the reasons why broadwell is delayed?

[harrynowl]

no its a haswell bug.

maybe one of the reasons why broadwell is delayed?

I thought that was TSX. I'll have to read more into it.

 

TSX is disabled on Broadwell too.

[Faa]

no its a haswell bug.

maybe one of the reasons why broadwell is delayed?

Fsin bug? x87 instructions "aren't" on silicon, microcode update could fix it but why would they do it when it won't benefit anyone? It's happening on AMD as well https://blogs.oracle.com/jag/entry/transcendental_meditation

 

 

no its a haswell bug.

maybe one of the reasons why broadwell is delayed?

No lol, they give a damn about that bug. Broadwell has been mainly delayed due to 14nm issues.

 

 

I thought that was TSX. I'll have to read more into it.

 

TSX is disabled on Broadwell too.

Probably for early BW chips its disabled, but we might get a stepping for current Haswell/E cpu's or they'll use it as a selling thing for Broadwell. TSX wasnt working properly so they just disabled it.

[Sintezza]

 

Fsin bug? x87 instructions "aren't" on silicon, microcode update could fix it but why would they do it when it won't benefit anyone? It's happening on AMD as well https://blogs.oracle.com/jag/entry/transcendental_meditation

 

 

No lol, they give a damn about that bug. Broadwell has been mainly delayed due to 14nm issues.

 

 

Probably for early BW chips its disabled, but we might get a stepping for current Haswell/E cpu's or they'll use it as a selling thing for Broadwell. TSX wasnt working properly so they just disabled it.

 

 

haha well i was lolling arround a bit to be honnest.

Because people over here write too much negative shit about amd cpu´s.

But intel cpu´s have theire own issues aswell.

 

The thing is haswell has a serious hardware bug, with theire sin instructions

They are not very accurate with computing fsin calculations.

But offcourse an average user wont notice anything about this bug, but in case of very large "accurate" calculations in heavy industries this might be a serious thing.

The cool new sin instructions will probably not being used lol.

Unless they could figure something out with an updated micro code.

So its on the chip but not working properly.

[Faa]

haha well i was lolling arround a bit to be honnest.

Because people over here write too much negative shit about amd cpu´s.

But intel cpu´s have theire own issues aswell.

 

The thing is haswell has a serious hardware bug, with theire sin instructions

They are not very accurate with computing fsin calculations.

But offcourse an average user wont notice anything about this bug, but in case of very large "accurate" calculations in heavy industries this might be a serious thing.

The cool new sin instructructions will probably not being used lol.

Unless they could figure something out with an updated micro code.

So its on the chip but not working properly.

I haven't seen a proof that Haswell had it. 

Your main criticism towards AMD should be their singlethreaded performance, actually Intel just deserves that criticism as much as AMD does. Desktop doesn't need more cores, look at how useless the 5960x is, desktop is probably only used these days for gaming, mainstream use the desktop is dead, a few do productivity where corecount matters. How singlethreaded performance actually improved over the last years, I'm actually fearing for the future. You dont really want to end like your latest 1000$ cpu bottlenecks the cheapest GPU available in every game. AMD/Nvidia not releasing GPU's for like 10 years until CPU's catch up. Anyways its hypothetical.

What would you prefer? A 5960x or a 4670, both performing exactly equal in multithreaded performance in Cinebench eg (not logical but whatever)? So the only difference would be the i5 having a massive IPC boost. My choice is easily made. 

Their power consumption can be criticized too, most people overgear on psu's anyways having awful efficiency at low loads so theres not a lot of difference, but honestly its only valid for an indication of how much cooling you need and VRM requirements that usually make a board more expensive. A Intel rig will consume more whenever the singlethreaded performance advantage allows this. Lets say AMD gets 32 FPS and Intel 32 FPS with a single GPU for both cpu's at 99% gpu load, AMD will consume a bit more with a single gpu. Put a 2nd card in there, AMD gets 32 fps and Intel 64 FPS -> AMD gpu loads would be 50/50 and Intel 99/99. What system will consume the most? Intel by a huge amount because it made both GPU's sitting on their maximum load which is in this case the power consumption difference between 1 GPU's and 2 GPU's. Imagine a 290x lol.

There's not much of a difference between a single GPU at 99% load and two gpu's each at 50/50% load though. Atm AMD can't really compete with the 5960x, if they'd release a FX16050 a 16 core at 4GHz, power consumption would get out of control. As a chipmaker, power consumption isn't something you can easily ignore. Lower power consumption/more singlethreaded performance = cpu monopoly is in your hands. Putting more cores is faceroll. AMD's best choice is going for more IPC and preferably lower power consumption so we can see more cores as well. 

Memory controller can be criticized too, but again only benefitial to people who do productivity and most of the time they can afford Intel so it's a moot point.