apple A reasonably priced Mac workstation

[FreqEvans]

Hi everyone, I'm Evans.

I have no job and I'm still in quarantine, so my mind started thinking a lot.

 

I'm a PC guy, but I have more Macs in my house than PCs, because my dad is graphic designer.

I have a Mac mini mid 2011 (that is mine), and my dad has a Mac Pro 2006 and an iMac mid 2011.

I also have a PC (R5 3600, 16GB 3200MHz, 1660 Super).

My father starts thinking to change computer because his Mac Pro is definitely OLD and the iMac has poor expandibility, so he need to switch from macOS to Windows.

Here is my thought: a Mac mini cost 1200€ (I will use euros, I'm italian) and it not have dedicated GPU. A new iMac for at least 1600€ but it sucks, no expandibility at all, he don't want Thunderbolt docks on his desk. The brand new Mac Pro costs so much and it is useless for a graphic designer, 6k for Illustrator, InDesign and Photoshop is a crime!

So, why Apple don't do a mid desktop between iMac and Mac Pro? If you think for while, the only Mac that is a desktop is the Mac Pro! A Mac mini is a laptop with no peripherals, the iMac is the same + a good display.

Imagine a Mac Semi-Pro (ahahahah) with an I5-10400, or an I7-10700K, with a Radeon RX 580 or RX 5700 XT in it and a 32GB of RAM.. I think that a lot of companies will buy it, for more or less 1200€ - 1500€

 

What do you think, LTT forums people?

 

(sorry for my engllsh, as I said before, I'm italian)

[Curious Pineapple]

Then why would people like your dad buy a Pro?

 

It would have to be more reliable than an iMac, which nets them no money in repairs, but cheaper than a Pro. If it's cheaper than a Pro but has similar features then less people will buy the Pro.

 

They have their products right how they want them, consumer stuff that's priced so it's just about affordable whilst maintaining the image of a premium brand, but designed to fail just often enough to make buying a new one easier than repair. Professional gear that's priced well for what it is, but has no mid-range offerings so you have no choice but to spend the extra.

[FreqEvans]

9 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Then why would people like your dad buy a Pro?

 

It would have to be more reliable than an iMac, which nets them no money in repairs, but cheaper than a Pro. If it's cheaper than a Pro but has similar features then less people will buy the Pro.

 

They have their products right how they want them, consumer stuff that's priced so it's just about affordable whilst maintaining the image of a premium brand, but designed to fail just often enough to make buying a new one easier than repair. Professional gear that's priced well for what it is, but has no mid-range offerings so you have no choice but to spend the extra.

And that's why I'll build a Windows PC to my dad!

 

Thanks for your answer!

[foldingNoob]

Tell your father the reason why the mac pro is so expensive is because apple assumes graphic designers earn too much.

[FreqEvans]

13 minutes ago, foldingNoob said:

Tell your father the reason why the mac pro is so expensive is because apple assumes graphic designers earn too much.

Well said my friend!

Also Adobe thinks that... My father are still using Adobe CS4!

[Ashleyyyy]

On 5/27/2020 at 12:04 PM, FreqEvans said:

and an iMac mid 2011.

tell your father to sell it and buy back at least a 2012. it's still supported and the gpu's don't fail like the 2011's do. keeping that 2011 is a ticking timebomb because at some point the gpu will fail. 

[zogthegreat]

Hi @FreqEvans Have you considered building a Hackintosh? You will get better performance and expansion options than from a genuine Mac. I'm running OS X on 2 laptops, a Latitude E7270 and an HP 15-AB right now and my friend who is a graphic designer says that they perform better than his Mac Pro laptop. Just pick hardware that is compatible and it's pretty much plug and play.

[FreqEvans]

51 minutes ago, zogthegreat said:

Hi @FreqEvans Have you considered building a Hackintosh? You will get better performance and expansion options than from a genuine Mac. I'm running OS X on 2 laptops, a Latitude E7270 and an HP 15-AB right now and my friend who is a graphic designer says that they perform better than his Mac Pro laptop. Just pick hardware that is compatible and it's pretty much plug and play.

Hi! I already built some Hackintosh in my life, and is pretty annoying to do that. My father loves macOS but he'll not have problems to use Windows, so if I'll build a new computer to him is pretty sure that will be a Windows machine. However, working on Hackintosh is illegal, because Apple says that macOS can be only installed on Machintosh computer, not on a PC (it's marketing!!!).

 

1 hour ago, Ashley said:

tell your father to sell it and buy back at least a 2012. it's still supported and the gpu's don't fail like the 2011's do. keeping that 2011 is a ticking timebomb because at some point the gpu will fail. 

Yes, I already said that to him last year when he bought the iMac from a failed company for only 100€. He had also a MacBook Pro mid 2011, with an i7... GPU fails after 1 year. Replaced. after 6 months, broken again. I tried to set the Intel HD as the main GPU in Safe Mode, but I didn't succeed. =(

However, he can't sell it right now because he uses the iMac everyday.

I think that when Apple will release the 2020 iMac (if Apple offer a valuable choice that costs less than 1400€) he will buy it instead of buying a 1000€ Windows PC and a 400€ monitor.

[Ashleyyyy]

16 minutes ago, FreqEvans said:

I tried to set the Intel HD as the main GPU in Safe Mode, but I didn't succeed. =(

do you want me to help you? i had one and i managed to figure it out. if so hit me up on discord. my username is in my profile. 

[Lord Vile]

On 5/27/2020 at 11:04 AM, FreqEvans said:

Hi everyone, I'm Evans.

I have no job and I'm still in quarantine, so my mind started thinking a lot.

 

I'm a PC guy, but I have more Macs in my house than PCs, because my dad is graphic designer.

I have a Mac mini mid 2011 (that is mine), and my dad has a Mac Pro 2006 and an iMac mid 2011.

I also have a PC (R5 3600, 16GB 3200MHz, 1660 Super).

My father starts thinking to change computer because his Mac Pro is definitely OLD and the iMac has poor expandibility, so he need to switch from macOS to Windows.

Here is my thought: a Mac mini cost 1200€ (I will use euros, I'm italian) and it not have dedicated GPU. A new iMac for at least 1600€ but it sucks, no expandibility at all, he don't want Thunderbolt docks on his desk. The brand new Mac Pro costs so much and it is useless for a graphic designer, 6k for Illustrator, InDesign and Photoshop is a crime!

So, why Apple don't do a mid desktop between iMac and Mac Pro? If you think for while, the only Mac that is a desktop is the Mac Pro! A Mac mini is a laptop with no peripherals, the iMac is the same + a good display.

Imagine a Mac Semi-Pro (ahahahah) with an I5-10400, or an I7-10700K, with a Radeon RX 580 or RX 5700 XT in it and a 32GB of RAM.. I think that a lot of companies will buy it, for more or less 1200€ - 1500€

 

What do you think, LTT forums people?

 

(sorry for my engllsh, as I said before, I'm italian)

Could just get the new Mac Pro, what's wrong with a TB dock.

 

Overall the product stack is fairly balanced as is. For a graphic designer you shouldn't need more than the current iMac Pro which is an 8 core Xeon with 32GB of RAM, a 1TB SSD and a Vega 56 GPU with the attached 5K screen. 

[FreqEvans]

2 hours ago, Ashley said:

do you want me to help you? i had one and i managed to figure it out. if so hit me up on discord. my username is in my profile. 

I throw it away

 

1 hour ago, Lord Vile said:

Could just get the new Mac Pro, what's wrong with a TB dock.

 

Overall the product stack is fairly balanced as is. For a graphic designer you shouldn't need more than the current iMac Pro which is an 8 core Xeon with 32GB of RAM, a 1TB SSD and a Vega 56 GPU with the attached 5K screen. 

There are a lot of money, with a 800€ PC you will get the same performance 

[Ashleyyyy]

3 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

I throw it away

omg why, even broken 2011 MBP's sell for like $200

[Lord Vile]

4 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

I throw it away

 

There are a lot of money, with a 800€ PC you will get the same performance 

But you really don’t. You can’t use a lot of software on PC that you can on Mac. Final cut is a lot faster than anything on windows and the music industry would probably collapse if Logic was wiped from the face of the earth 

[FreqEvans]

9 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

But you really don’t. You can’t use a lot of software on PC that you can on Mac. Final cut is a lot faster than anything on windows and the music industry would probably collapse if Logic was wiped from the face of the earth 

Yes but my father is a graphic designer, he don't need Logic or Final Cut. I use Logic Pro on my Mac mini every week, but I use Premiere Pro on my PC.

 

11 hours ago, Ashley said:

omg why, even broken 2011 MBP's sell for like $200

I destroyed the logic board trying to disconnect the dedicated GPU ahahahahah

[FreqEvans]

11 hours ago, Ashley said:

omg why, even broken 2011 MBP's sell for like $200

 

Just now, FreqEvans said:

I destroyed the logic board trying to disconnect the dedicated GPU ahahahahah

(I was young)

[Lord Vile]

38 minutes ago, FreqEvans said:

Yes but my father is a graphic designer, he don't need Logic or Final Cut. I use Logic Pro on my Mac mini every week, but I use Premiere Pro on my PC.

 

I destroyed the logic board trying to disconnect the dedicated GPU ahahahahah

But even then the iMac pro has a 5K screen that's colour accurate and you can sidecar an iPad for drawing etc. software works for both and it's not like the iMac is anaemic so you're gonna get it's lifespan of it working fine. I mean you say that you have a normal iMac that's 9 years old as is just starting to show its age. A PC wouldn't last that long plus your dad will be more used to MacOS and going MacOS to windows is a lot harder than Windows to MacOS mainly because windows is a pile of shit. 

[zogthegreat]

1 hour ago, Lord Vile said:

A PC wouldn't last that long plus your dad will be more used to MacOS and going MacOS to windows is a lot harder than Windows to MacOS mainly because windows is a pile of shit. 

Not to be contentious @Lord Vile, but I have to disagree with you on this. I'm just now upgrading my Dell Precision M4800, i7-4800MQ, 32gb DDR3L. This workstation, (it really isn't a "laptop"), is still rock solid, I just can't upgrade the discreet graphics card on it, (NVIDIA Quadro K1100M 2gb). Other than that, it's a great machine that I now use a backup system. I also just got rid of my socket 1366 X58 desktop that was running fine... I just felt it was time to upgrade.

 

@FreqEvans, I understand what you mean about Hackintosh's being annoying in the past... but that was in the past. These days, with Clover Bootloader a Hackintosh is a breeze to set up if you choose the right hardware. And with OpenCore Bootloader coming into maturity, Hackintosh's are even better.

 

I want to be clear that I'm not a Mac fanboy. As far as I'm concerned, a computer is a toolbox, put in the tools to do what you need to do the job you need to get done. I run Windoze, Linux or Mac OS X depending on what needs to get done.

 

Linus and Co. have done several reviews on Hackintosh's and there is no question that they out perform a similarly priced Mac, with the exception that you can actually repair hardware on the bleeping things! 

 

As I have said in the past, if you want the feel of a "real Mac", build a Hackintosh and tape $2000 - $3000 on the top, then it will be just like a real Mac!

 

[Lord Vile]

7 minutes ago, zogthegreat said:

Not to be contentious @Lord Vile, but I have to disagree with you on this. I'm just now upgrading my Dell Precision M4800, i7-4800MQ, 32gb DDR3L. This workstation, (it really isn't a "laptop"), is still rock solid, I just can't upgrade the discreet graphics card on it, (NVIDIA Quadro K1100M 2gb). Other than that, it's a great machine that I now use a backup system. I also just got rid of my socket 1366 X58 desktop that was running fine... I just felt it was time to upgrade.

 

@FreqEvans, I understand what you mean about Hackintosh's being annoying in the past... but that was in the past. These days, with Clover Bootloader a Hackintosh is a breeze to set up if you choose the right hardware. And with OpenCore Bootloader coming into maturity, Hackintosh's are even better.

 

I want to be clear that I'm not a Mac fanboy. As far as I'm concerned, a computer is a toolbox, put in the tools to do what you need to do the job you need to get done. I run Windoze, Linux or Mac OS X depending on what needs to get done.

 

Linus and Co. have done several reviews on Hackintosh's and there is no question that they out perform a similarly priced Mac, with the exception that you can actually repair hardware on the bleeping things! 

 

As I have said in the past, if you want the feel of a "real Mac", build a Hackintosh and tape $2000 - $3000 on the top, then it will be just like a real Mac!

 

That laptop is only what 6 years old vs a 14 year old MacBook and a 9 year old imac.

 

Issue with a hackintosh is it isn't a real mac, you need specific hardware and they don't update as fast. Plus they might be killed completely within 10 years as the older lines without T2 and T1 chips will eventually get a last OS and the you might need a T2 chip to boot into MacOS. 

[Ashleyyyy]

2 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

I destroyed the logic board trying to disconnect the dedicated GPU ahahahahah

you can do it in software lol, no hardware mods needed. 

[zogthegreat]

11 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

That laptop is only what 6 years old vs a 14 year old MacBook and a 9 year old imac.

 

Issue with a hackintosh is it isn't a real mac, you need specific hardware and they don't update as fast. Plus they might be killed completely within 10 years as the older lines without T2 and T1 chips will eventually get a last OS and the you might need a T2 chip to boot into MacOS. 

Yes, but you can't upgrade a 9 year old iMac to the latest version of OS X because Apple want's you to buy a new Mac! Something that old will go up to Snow Leopard, maybe Sierra. I personally think that that's BS, but Apple didn't become one of the most valuable companies in the world by being concerned about user satisfaction! 

[Lord Vile]

1 hour ago, zogthegreat said:

Yes, but you can't upgrade a 9 year old iMac to the latest version of OS X because Apple want's you to buy a new Mac! Something that old will go up to Snow Leopard, maybe Sierra. I personally think that that's BS, but Apple didn't become one of the most valuable companies in the world by being concerned about user satisfaction! 

Because the hardware doesn't run it well enough or doesn't have enough features of that OS to run it well. You can still use it on that OS however. Generally by the time a mac doesn't run the lastest OS. Even then the 2011 iMac still runs High Sierra which will run FC for example and will still get security updates leaving the imac with at least a 10 year lifespan. Which is generally longer than I'd say a PC would stay in date for seeing as on the PC side you should be upgrading the GPU every 3 years and the CPU every 4 to get maximum value.  

[FreqEvans]

Ok, I lost the thread of the discussion.

Summing up:

- My father isn't scared of the transition from macOS to Win;

- Windows IS NOT a shit, you can do literally everything;

- My father use only a Mac with the mouse, no iPad, no trackpad;

- He don't need so much power;

- An iMac with 4 or 6 cores with a 4GB VRAM GPU is simply great for him;

- A good PC costs 700€.

- I love Hackintosh (I did a hackOS Catalina 4 months ago with my Acer Aspire 3 laptop) but it is illegal to use it for work;

 

7 hours ago, Ashley said:

you can do it in software lol, no hardware mods needed. 

I know that, but in my case was slightly different to repair it