AM4 Servers - Are they Worth it?

[CakeArmy_Max]

Howdy,

 

I'm debating if I want to buy my own hardware or stick with renting my current setup. I'm currently running a server with an i7 6700k. The server runs proxmox and hosts gameservers and my website. I'm looking to do an upgrade which also might reduce costs.

 

I was thinking about getting a Ryzen processor and my host recommended the Ryzen 3600. I'm debating if I want to build out an AM4 server with this processor because I'd need to buy my own hardware as the datacenter doesn't want to get any AM4 stuff until there is a "good" cooler.

 

Buying my own hardware would also lower my monthly cost. Currently I'm paying ~150 USD. That's for 2- 1TB SSDs (nvme I believe), 6700k, 48GB Ram, and ~20TB of bandwith. Without the extra 10TB of bandwith I'm looking at about 130USD. If I were to just colocate, I could get it for around 50USD.

 

So my question is:

 

Is it worth buying hardware? I have to consider parts breaking, onsite hands to replace parts, etc.If yes,

Is it worth investing into the 3600? 

 

Current Usage:

CPU Usage usually hovers around 40-50%

I use about 35-40GB of ram at a given time

Proxmox reports the "server load" at just between 3-4, whatever that means. 

[Turtle Rig]

54 minutes ago, CakeArmy_Max said:

Howdy,

 

I'm debating if I want to buy my own hardware or stick with renting my current setup. I'm currently running a server with an i7 6700k. The server runs proxmox and hosts gameservers and my website. I'm looking to do an upgrade which also might reduce costs.

 

I was thinking about getting a Ryzen processor and my host recommended the Ryzen 3600. I'm debating if I want to build out an AM4 server with this processor because I'd need to buy my own hardware as the datacenter doesn't want to get any AM4 stuff until there is a "good" cooler.

 

Buying my own hardware would also lower my monthly cost. Currently I'm paying ~150 USD. That's for 2- 1TB SSDs (nvme I believe), 6700k, 48GB Ram, and ~20TB of bandwith. Without the extra 10TB of bandwith I'm looking at about 130USD. If I were to just colocate, I could get it for around 50USD.

 

So my question is:

 

Is it worth buying hardware? I have to consider parts breaking, onsite hands to replace parts, etc.If yes,

Is it worth investing into the 3600? 

 

Current Usage:

CPU Usage usually hovers around 40-50%

I use about 35-40GB of ram at a given time

Proxmox reports the "server load" at just between 3-4, whatever that means. 

That is a sidegrade if anything.  YOur 6700k is fine as long as you give it a good OC.  Unless you need more cores for the work you do ?  What do you do and did you OC that chip or what.

[CakeArmy_Max]

No, its not overclocked. It's in a server and needs to be stable. The reason I was thinking more cores is because of the quantity of VMs I use. Windows tends to hog resources alot and I unfortunately need to have about 4 windows VMs. 

[KarathKasun]

Err, what are they talking about with coolers?  3600 pulls less power than the 6700 and has a better in box cooler.

[CakeArmy_Max]

I might not be being clear. Its a 1U server, in a datacenter.

 

Additionally, I don't even know how to overclock using IPMI and don't think it'd be a good idea overall anyways.

[KarathKasun]

7 minutes ago, CakeArmy_Max said:

I might not be being clear. Its a 1U server, in a datacenter, being used for a company.

There are different rack chassis sizes, so that helps.

 

Dynatron makes a 1u AM4 cooler.  Noctua also makes a cooler that will fit in a 1u chassis without a fan, which is fine if you use good chassis airflow (40mm fans across front).

[CakeArmy_Max]

According to my host the Dynatron cooler wasn't going to be good enough. They said to wait until they got a watercooling solution.

 

[KarathKasun]

5 minutes ago, CakeArmy_Max said:

According to my host the Dynatron cooler wasn't going to be good enough. They said to wait until they got a watercooling solution.

 

The Dynatron is rataed to 95w, it will function fine on a 65w CPU.  The Noctua is probably the best choice though.

 

Water in 1U is... 100% unnecessary.  Ive setup and installed a fair number of dual socket 1u systems with 2x80w CPUs in them.  They used simple passive copper heatsinks and 4x dual stage 40mm fans blowing across the CPU/memory area of the board.  CPU temps never exited the low 80c range with 100% synthetic load.

[CakeArmy_Max]

1 hour ago, KarathKasun said:

The Dynatron is rataed to 95w, it will function fine on a 65w CPU.  The Noctua is probably the best choice though.

 

Water in 1U is... 100% unnecessary.  Ive setup and installed a fair number of dual socket 1u systems with 2x80w CPUs in them.  They used simple passive copper heatsinks and 4x dual stage 40mm fans blowing across the CPU/memory area of the board.  CPU temps never exited the low 80c range with 100% synthetic load.

Thanks for the information. I'm going to make a pcpartpicker list and post it here. Lmk what you guys think.

 

Thanks again

[TrigrH]

58 minutes ago, CakeArmy_Max said:

Thanks for the information. I'm going to make a pcpartpicker list and post it here. Lmk what you guys think.

 

Thanks again

you are going to want a b450 board with bios flash back and an intel NIC

[CakeArmy_Max]

8 hours ago, TrigrH said:

you are going to want a b450 board with bios flash back and an intel NIC

I was going with the ASRock server motherboard and the Aquantia AQtion 10G card.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, I need to verify they are using RJ45 copper and not sfp or something. 

[CakeArmy_Max]

Ok so this is my current buildout:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor	$199.00 @ B&H
CPU Cooler	Corsair H60 (2018) 57.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler	$42.99
Motherboard	ASRock AsRock Rack X470D4U Micro ATX Server Motherboard AM4 PGA 1331 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard	$281.99 @ SuperBiiz
Memory	Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (1 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory	$74.99 @ Corsair
Memory	Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (1 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory	$74.99 @ Corsair
Memory	Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (1 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory	$74.99 @ Corsair
Memory	Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (1 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory	$74.99 @ Corsair
Storage	ADATA Ultimate SU650 960 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive	$99.99 @ Newegg
Storage	ADATA SU635 960 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive	$89.99 @ Amazon
Storage	Seagate Barracuda Compute 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	$54.99 @ Amazon
Storage	Seagate Barracuda Compute 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	$54.99 @ Amazon
Wired Network Adapter	Asus XG-C100C PCIe x4 10 Gbit/s Network Adapter	$79.98
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$1203.88
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-07-27 13:29 EDT-0400

 

The Corsair H60 is just a placeholder for the dynatron cooler and the Asus XG-C100C is a placeholder for the Aquantia AQtion 10G Pro NIC. I did manually adjust the prices. 

 

I'm missing a chasis and PSU. For those familiar with colocation, you get charged for the space you use. This means I want to use as little as possible, meaning a 1U chasis. The motherboard is mATX. I can't seem to find a decently priced chasis. I need 2x 3.5in bays and 2x 2.5in. It's fine if they are all 3.5. What do you guys recommend? 

 

[KarathKasun]

Drive bays are going to be 4x 3.5 in the 1u space if you use sleds.

 

This is about as good as it gets.

https://www.newegg.com/black-supermicro-cse-813mtq-600cb/p/N82E16811152184?Item=N82E16811152184

[brob]

Buying separate sticks of memory leaves a small chance that they will not operate in dual channel mode. Get a 4x16GB kit.

 

Since the motherboard supports ECC memory, you might consider using an ECC kit. It will improve reliability. Note: the motherboard cpu QVL does not include any Zen 2 cpu.

 

I'd suggest higher duty load hdd. If they will be in a RAID array consider Seagate Ironwolf Pro units.

 

[CakeArmy_Max]

1 minute ago, brob said:

Buying separate sticks of memory leaves a small chance that they will not operate in dual channel mode. Get a 4x16GB kit.

  

Since the motherboard supports ECC memory, you might consider using an ECC kit. It will improve reliability. Note: the motherboard cpu QVL does not include any Zen 2 cpu.

  

I'd suggest higher duty load hdd. If they will be in a RAID array consider Seagate Ironwolf Pro units.

 

Yeah, everything was going to be raid 1. I'll take a look at those drives. Additionally, isn't $300 for a piece of metal, some fans, and a backplane expensive?

[brob]

3 minutes ago, CakeArmy_Max said:

Yeah, everything was going to be raid 1. I'll take a look at those drives. Additionally, isn't $300 for a piece of metal, some fans, and a backplane expensive?

 

Yes and no. If you were going to put it under your desk and employ it for personal use five or six hour a day it's a touch on the expensive side. If it is going to sit in a data center running 24x7 with multiple concurrent users no.

 

Presumably if a piece of hardware breaks you are going to have to supply the replacement part before the server will come back on line. How much does downtime cost you?

[CakeArmy_Max]

22 minutes ago, brob said:

 

Yes and no. If you were going to put it under your desk and employ it for personal use five or six hour a day it's a touch on the expensive side. If it is going to sit in a data center running 24x7 with multiple concurrent users no.

  

Presumably if a piece of hardware breaks you are going to have to supply the replacement part before the server will come back on line. How much does downtime cost you?

I see. As far as replacement parts, my host will replace broken parts, I just need to pay the time for the onsite techs and rent/buy the hardware from them.

I do see your point though. That chasis also only has a single PSU. 

55 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

Drive bays are going to be 4x 3.5 in the 1u space if you use sleds.

  

This is about as good as it gets.

https://www.newegg.com/black-supermicro-cse-813mtq-600cb/p/N82E16811152184?Item=N82E16811152184

Do you have personal experience with this chasis? How did you decide it was the right one? I'm wondering so I can make an educated decision myself. I think something with redundant PSUs would be nice.

[KarathKasun]

36 minutes ago, CakeArmy_Max said:

I see. As far as replacement parts, my host will replace broken parts, I just need to pay the time for the onsite techs and rent/buy the hardware from them.

I do see your point though. That chasis also only has a single PSU. 

Do you have personal experience with this chasis? How did you decide it was the right one? I'm wondering so I can make an educated decision myself. I think something with redundant PSUs would be nice.

Ive used lots of Super Micro equipment and their chassis and power supplies are top notch.  That and most of the ones I have seen or used are pretty interchangeable design wise.

 

The only thing that would be a possible problem would be fitting an I/O shield.  Generally, when retrofitting a board designed for a tower or 4u chassis, I have had to remove the I/O cover on 1U cases.  This is much better than trying to put in a solid I/O shield though, as that ruins CPU area airflow and can lead to elevated temps.  In my experience, this is pretty common in the 1U space... if you want it to be "correct" you get a bare-bones and build from that.

 

1 hour ago, CakeArmy_Max said:

Yeah, everything was going to be raid 1. I'll take a look at those drives. Additionally, isn't $300 for a piece of metal, some fans, and a backplane expensive?

It also includes a 600W PSU.  1U gear is NOT cheap.  You are looking at $100 for a bare case with no PSU or a low wattage PSU.  I also do not recommend going super cheap because your build will be a nightmare of bad airflow and hunting for fans that can push the CFM and static pressure you need.

[CakeArmy_Max]

42 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

Ive used lots of Super Micro equipment and their chassis and power supplies are top notch.  That and most of the ones I have seen or used are pretty interchangeable design wise.

 

The only thing that would be a possible problem would be fitting an I/O shield.  Generally, when retrofitting a board designed for a tower or 4u chassis, I have had to remove the I/O cover on 1U cases.  This is much better than trying to put in a solid I/O shield though, as that ruins CPU area airflow and can lead to elevated temps.  In my experience, this is pretty common in the 1U space... if you want it to be "correct" you get a bare-bones and build from that.

 

It also includes a 600W PSU.  1U gear is NOT cheap.  You are looking at $100 for a bare case with no PSU or a low wattage PSU.  I also do not recommend going super cheap because your build will be a nightmare of bad airflow and hunting for fans that can push the CFM and static pressure you need.

Do you have a recommendation for a redundant PSU chasis?

[KarathKasun]

https://www.newegg.com/black-supermicro-cse-813mtq-r400cb/p/N82E16811152355

 

The things you are asking about add significant cost to the bottom line.

[CakeArmy_Max]

19 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

https://www.newegg.com/black-supermicro-cse-813mtq-r400cb/p/N82E16811152355

 

The things you are asking about add significant cost to the bottom line.

Extra 230 to prevent downtime and possible data corruption is worth it. Chasis is something I can use for years. Hardware will be replaced in less.

[TrigrH]

8 hours ago, CakeArmy_Max said:

Motherboard

ASRock AsRock Rack X470D4U Micro ATX Server Motherboard AM4 PGA 1331 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard

Whats the advantage of using this motherboard?

[CakeArmy_Max]

34 minutes ago, TrigrH said:

Whats the advantage of using this motherboard?

It'll work.

 

My host has access to these, he can swap them out if it fails (if I have an exact part that breaks that he has, he'll switch them for no charge other than onsite hands), they're from asus, so reputable, and... works. Is there something else that you recommend? I know you don't need a "server" motherboard but thats what initially led me to it.

[CakeArmy_Max]

Forgot to include, has IPMI and from what I read, ram orientation matters for airflow.

[TrigrH]

24 minutes ago, CakeArmy_Max said:

It'll work.

 

My host has access to these, he can swap them out if it fails (if I have an exact part that breaks that he has, he'll switch them for no charge other than onsite hands), they're from asus, so reputable, and... works. Is there something else that you recommend? I know you don't need a "server" motherboard but thats what initially led me to it.

the default bios wont work with ryzen 3000 though