Strider

All I know is, there had better be a VLOG.

The pointless hate in this thread is hilariously disturbing. lol
 
Wait until they find out about that AM1/290X build I'm doing. *Muhahaha*

The pointless hate in this thread is hilariously disturbing. lol
 
Wait until they find out about that AM1/290X build I'm doing. *Muhahaha*

The pointless hate in this thread is hilariously disturbing. lol
 
Wait until they find out about that AM1/290X build I'm doing. *Muhahaha*

The pointless hate in this thread is hilariously disturbing. lol
 
Wait until they find out about that AM1/290X build I'm doing. *Muhahaha*

The pointless hate in this thread is hilariously disturbing. lol
 
Wait until they find out about that AM1/290X build I'm doing. *Muhahaha*

...

I try really hard not to hate on these so called "modern" consoles, because I dislike being a "hater", but it's idiotic things like this that make it bubble right over the top. To be fair, it's not the gamers I hate, it's the what the consoles (and companies) themselves have done to the gaming industry in my humble opinion.

Crappy ports. Outdated tech that's expected to last 8+ years. Dumbed down games targeting lower-end console hardware. These things are not "next gen", they are outdated even before they hit the shelves.

The consoles have been a hindrance to the advancement of the game industry in my opinion, at least in a technical aspect.

Then I see crap like this article, and it's not just a hindrance any longer, but a HUGE step backwards!

Resolution is just a number?

60 FPS too hard to reach?

Neither of these really have any effect on image quality?

... *sigh* ...

Sit myself, or most any PC gamer, behind a game and let us see if we can tell the difference between 30 and 60 FPS. Especially in first person shooter titles. There is a huge difference.

I will grant that telling the difference between 900P and 1080P would not be as easy for some, but it's still perceivable. Especially side by side. But in this case, that's not the point. We are moving past 1080P to 1440P and beyond. You can easily tell the difference between 900P and 1440, or 1080 and 1440, and don't even get me started on 4K.

Anyway, I think I should stop there, I can rant all day about idiotic claims like this. Thanks for letting me rant a little, made me feel better.

...

I try really hard not to hate on these so called "modern" consoles, because I dislike being a "hater", but it's idiotic things like this that make it bubble right over the top. To be fair, it's not the gamers I hate, it's the what the consoles (and companies) themselves have done to the gaming industry in my humble opinion.

Crappy ports. Outdated tech that's expected to last 8+ years. Dumbed down games targeting lower-end console hardware. These things are not "next gen", they are outdated even before they hit the shelves.

The consoles have been a hindrance to the advancement of the game industry in my opinion, at least in a technical aspect.

Then I see crap like this article, and it's not just a hindrance any longer, but a HUGE step backwards!

Resolution is just a number?

60 FPS too hard to reach?

Neither of these really have any effect on image quality?

... *sigh* ...

Sit myself, or most any PC gamer, behind a game and let us see if we can tell the difference between 30 and 60 FPS. Especially in first person shooter titles. There is a huge difference.

I will grant that telling the difference between 900P and 1080P would not be as easy for some, but it's still perceivable. Especially side by side. But in this case, that's not the point. We are moving past 1080P to 1440P and beyond. You can easily tell the difference between 900P and 1440, or 1080 and 1440, and don't even get me started on 4K.

Anyway, I think I should stop there, I can rant all day about idiotic claims like this. Thanks for letting me rant a little, made me feel better.

...

I try really hard not to hate on these so called "modern" consoles, because I dislike being a "hater", but it's idiotic things like this that make it bubble right over the top. To be fair, it's not the gamers I hate, it's the what the consoles (and companies) themselves have done to the gaming industry in my humble opinion.

Crappy ports. Outdated tech that's expected to last 8+ years. Dumbed down games targeting lower-end console hardware. These things are not "next gen", they are outdated even before they hit the shelves.

The consoles have been a hindrance to the advancement of the game industry in my opinion, at least in a technical aspect.

Then I see crap like this article, and it's not just a hindrance any longer, but a HUGE step backwards!

Resolution is just a number?

60 FPS too hard to reach?

Neither of these really have any effect on image quality?

... *sigh* ...

Sit myself, or most any PC gamer, behind a game and let us see if we can tell the difference between 30 and 60 FPS. Especially in first person shooter titles. There is a huge difference.

I will grant that telling the difference between 900P and 1080P would not be as easy for some, but it's still perceivable. Especially side by side. But in this case, that's not the point. We are moving past 1080P to 1440P and beyond. You can easily tell the difference between 900P and 1440, or 1080 and 1440, and don't even get me started on 4K.

Anyway, I think I should stop there, I can rant all day about idiotic claims like this. Thanks for letting me rant a little, made me feel better.

Exclusives only hurt the industry as a whole in the long term.
 
If Bethesda does decided to do this with Fallout 4, it's going to hinder the game and it's sales far more than help it. All they have to do is look to Titanfall to see a small preview, a game that could have done so much better than it did, at least it's already been said the next game in series will not be an exclusive. Fallout is obviously a far larger are more popular game, with a huge following. If a new franchise is suffering for it's decision to be a console exclusive, imagine what it can do to one that's already a huge hit across all platforms.
 
Oh, and I am a PC gamer, I have a special place of hatred for what "modern" consoles have done to the industry in my humble opinion. That's a conversation for a different time, however I am of the opinion that there is no reason for any AAA company (or any developers with the means for that matter) to ever limit a game to a single platform.

Technically, I started on the Magnavox Odyssey, my father had one when I was born in 74. I really don't count it since I was obviously so young and I don't remember it, until I got older that is. However, in early 78 he picked up the Atari 2600, and I played on that, and I do remember it.

That being said, in 1981 at the ripe old age of 7, I got my first computer. The Texas Instruments TI-99/4A. It was gift to me from my uncle who worked for McDonnell Douglas, he actually had three of them, one in use and two still in the box. We had went to visit him one weekend as part of a family gathering in St. Louis (where I am from), and I spent the entire weekend on his TI-99/4A. He was so taken by my interest in the machine that he gave me one. He kept sending me new carts, peripherals, and software for it as they became available. I credit him for locking in my love of computers.

From that point on, I was both a PC and console gamer, and it stayed that way until the PS1/N64. They were the last consoles I truly and and actively gamed on. After them I all but dropped consoles, except for retro gaming, and moved almost exclusively to PC.
 
Well, that's it, my abridged gaming history. lol

Sorry if this has been posted already, but I just came across it and thought it was quite hilarious.
 
http://themetapicture.com/canada-the-only-place-youll-see-something-like-this/
 
I am not from Canada, however much of this applies where I live as well, the frozen tundra of Northern Wisconsin. lol

Sorry if this has been posted already, but I just came across it and thought it was quite hilarious.
 
http://themetapicture.com/canada-the-only-place-youll-see-something-like-this/
 
I am not from Canada, however much of this applies where I live as well, the frozen tundra of Northern Wisconsin. lol

Sorry if this has been posted already, but I just came across it and thought it was quite hilarious.
 
http://themetapicture.com/canada-the-only-place-youll-see-something-like-this/
 
I am not from Canada, however much of this applies where I live as well, the frozen tundra of Northern Wisconsin. lol

Sorry if this has been posted already, but I just came across it and thought it was quite hilarious.
 
http://themetapicture.com/canada-the-only-place-youll-see-something-like-this/
 
I am not from Canada, however much of this applies where I live as well, the frozen tundra of Northern Wisconsin. lol

Sorry if this has been posted already, but I just came across it and thought it was quite hilarious.
 
http://themetapicture.com/canada-the-only-place-youll-see-something-like-this/
 
I am not from Canada, however much of this applies where I live as well, the frozen tundra of Northern Wisconsin. lol

I have little to no problems with BF4 at all, stability and performance have never really been an issue on my end. =/
 
In fact, the one and only crash I have seen in a very long time, was yesterday, and it was Firefox crashing in the background that caused it. The game has been pretty stable since beta, and I get great performance no matter if I am running DX11 or Mantle. In fact, the last patch actually helped a lot of people, especially those running Mantle. I have yet to crash in TDM, but to be fair I have only played a couple rounds, I much prefer Conquest.

I am not trying to defend the game, it has had (and still does have) it's problems, but I often think there is more to some of the stability issues than meets the eye. It's not all just the game clients fault, some of it may be an issue with the end users OS/software/driver configuration, or perhaps some hardware environments are more prone to problems with the client than others. Of course, some of this would be in the end users ability to troubleshoot and correct, some of it would not.

I know you have likely seen all of this before, but just in case, I will drop some of the common fix ideas here.

1. Make sure you  have every update for Windows via Windows Update.

2. You are running .Net Framework 4.5, and have all of it's updates via Windows Update.

3. All of  your drivers are up-to-date, including your motherboard chipset, NIC, and audio. Download the latest from your hardware manufacturer website.

4. Always use the manufacturers latest drivers over the ones supplied by Microsoft UNLESS the ones from MS are newer.

5. Uninstall BF4, and have Origin install to a new location if possible, such as a different drive.

6. Try disabling any overclocks you may have.

7. Try disabling any and all power saving features your system may have, such as those for the processor in the BIOS. Google your specific motherboard and CPU if you need help with this.

8. Try unplugging all of your USB devices, except for your keyboard and mouse of course. If you have more than one audio option, such as USB or on-board/sound card, try both. Make sure both have the latest drivers.

9. Re-run the DXSETUP.exe in the BF4 install directory. (Battlefield 4\__Installer\directx)

10. Are you running BF4 in 32 or 64 bit mode? Try both, 64-bit is preferred.

11. Did you disable your page file at some point? Set it at a static size? Re-enable it, system managed.

12. Disable all Origin in-game features.

13. Shut down any unnecessary background tasks.

I am sure there are more, but they escape me at the moment. Hopefully the upcoming patch will solve the TDM issue people have been reporting, the fact they know it exists and have a possible fix, means it's a client issue. However it could be related to the client and something specific or common to many end users machines, they are not open as to what the cause it. They often just say they have identified the problem, and then work on a fix, and never go into many details. That being said, the fact it does not effect all users also means there is a chance those having the problem can find a work-around until the patch is released. Finding that work-around is a completely different story. I wish you the best of luck.
 
=/

I have little to no problems with BF4 at all, stability and performance have never really been an issue on my end. =/
 
In fact, the one and only crash I have seen in a very long time, was yesterday, and it was Firefox crashing in the background that caused it. The game has been pretty stable since beta, and I get great performance no matter if I am running DX11 or Mantle. In fact, the last patch actually helped a lot of people, especially those running Mantle. I have yet to crash in TDM, but to be fair I have only played a couple rounds, I much prefer Conquest.

I am not trying to defend the game, it has had (and still does have) it's problems, but I often think there is more to some of the stability issues than meets the eye. It's not all just the game clients fault, some of it may be an issue with the end users OS/software/driver configuration, or perhaps some hardware environments are more prone to problems with the client than others. Of course, some of this would be in the end users ability to troubleshoot and correct, some of it would not.

I know you have likely seen all of this before, but just in case, I will drop some of the common fix ideas here.

1. Make sure you  have every update for Windows via Windows Update.

2. You are running .Net Framework 4.5, and have all of it's updates via Windows Update.

3. All of  your drivers are up-to-date, including your motherboard chipset, NIC, and audio. Download the latest from your hardware manufacturer website.

4. Always use the manufacturers latest drivers over the ones supplied by Microsoft UNLESS the ones from MS are newer.

5. Uninstall BF4, and have Origin install to a new location if possible, such as a different drive.

6. Try disabling any overclocks you may have.

7. Try disabling any and all power saving features your system may have, such as those for the processor in the BIOS. Google your specific motherboard and CPU if you need help with this.

8. Try unplugging all of your USB devices, except for your keyboard and mouse of course. If you have more than one audio option, such as USB or on-board/sound card, try both. Make sure both have the latest drivers.

9. Re-run the DXSETUP.exe in the BF4 install directory. (Battlefield 4\__Installer\directx)

10. Are you running BF4 in 32 or 64 bit mode? Try both, 64-bit is preferred.

11. Did you disable your page file at some point? Set it at a static size? Re-enable it, system managed.

12. Disable all Origin in-game features.

13. Shut down any unnecessary background tasks.

I am sure there are more, but they escape me at the moment. Hopefully the upcoming patch will solve the TDM issue people have been reporting, the fact they know it exists and have a possible fix, means it's a client issue. However it could be related to the client and something specific or common to many end users machines, they are not open as to what the cause it. They often just say they have identified the problem, and then work on a fix, and never go into many details. That being said, the fact it does not effect all users also means there is a chance those having the problem can find a work-around until the patch is released. Finding that work-around is a completely different story. I wish you the best of luck.
 
=/

You would have likely been better off going with AMD for your build over Intel/Nvidia at that price point. Celeron processors are horrible when it comes to anything over low to moderate gaming. So that is going to be a hindrance.
 
The single stick of RAM means you're only running in a single channel, and while some people debate the noticeable differences between the two, high end gaming is one place there really is no debate. Dual Channel or better will have a noticeable impact on the games performance. So if you can, pick up one more stick of the exact same RAM.
 
The GTX 650 is a good card, but like others have said, you would have likely been better off picking up at Radeon 7770 GHz edition card with 2GB VRAM, or even a 650 with 2GB if you really wanted to stick with Nvidia. Both are about the same price as the card you picked, or within $10 of it. Not to mention, if you had went with the 7770 GHz card, you would have eventually been able to take advantage of Mantle in BF4 and other games that will support it in the future. The fact you are running a low-end processor would have made you a near perfect example of a situation where Mantle would have likely helped a great deal.
 
So based on what you have listed, you may indeed be able to play those games, but you're going to have to play them at or near their lowest settings, even at 900P. You can play around with the settings and see what happens. Whenever possible, disable all filtering and shadow options, as well as triple buffering when applicable. Chances are, CoD game will run a bit better, since they are less demanding, though CoD Ghosts is more demanding than it's predecessors.
 
I wish you the very best of luck with your new system, and remember, even if you can't play those three games as good as you would have liked, there are a LOT more games out there to choose from. =]
 
Edit: On that video of BF4 gameplay, it's single player, if you intend on playing multiplayer it's far more demanding on your system. Sticking to 32 player or lower servers might help your multiplayer performance a lot when the time comes.

You forgot both HIS and PowerColor on the AMD side. =P

I actually buy from most manufacturers, but I will stick to the ones I prefer for my own personal builds.

On the AMD side I often gravitate toward XFX and Sapphire. I like their cooler designs and they both make quality products. I have bought HIS for myself, but I have not done so since the 4000 generation, however I do like their cooler designs and their build quality as well.

On the Nvidia side it's EVGA. Great quality, cooling, and non-reference options. If for some reason I can't get my hands on the specific EVGA card I am looking for, my backups would be MSI or ASUS.

There are only a few manufacturers I tend to stay away from, even with customer builds, and those are PNY, Zotac, and Galaxy. Having been a tech for a very long time, and with more builds than I can count under my belt, these are the top three brands I have had more issues with over the years. So much so that I pretty much avoid them all together.

Funny thing, I can remember back when Sapphire was the brand to avoid due to quality issues, but now they are one of the top brands on the AMD side of the fence. They have really come a long way and now offer top quality hardware.

I have not owned a Diamond card is a VERY long time, while I used to like them many years ago, I have no idea on their current quality. Club 3D, also never owned one, they are not very popular here in the US. So I have no real opinion on them either.
 
I pick the ones I do, not based on "brand loyalty", but the fact they have earned my business time and time again by providing me with a quality product that has met or exceeded my expectations. If that ever changes, I will not stick with a brand for the sake of doing so. Like I said, being a system builder I have the privilege of using hardware from many different manufacturers, so I get to gauge their quality for myself and form my own opinions.
 
=]

Darn it, I was not going to reply again, but damn if my inner geek did not get the best of me. haha.

It took Microsoft over a year to build Direct3D, and they did not do it from scratch, they had DCI and WinG to build upon. Direct3D was created to replace these in Windows 95  in part because of Win 95's protected memory operation, low level hardware access was no longer possible like it was in DOS.

Direct3D was slow to be adopted by programmers and was full of bugs and problems, and it stayed that way for many years. DirectX has been in development since 1994, so about 20 years, and you know what, it still has problems.

Mantle is trying to give back hardware level access to programmers, it was built from scratch, and from concept to the public beta version we have right now, took about 2 years. It's going to be buggy, and no one knows how well it's going to be adopted by the industry as of yet.

Back when D3D was this young, it was loved by some, hated by others, and it's future was not all that clear. Sound familiar? However it garnered support largely becasue it was part of the now most widely used operating system on consumer PC's in the world, Windows. It became the standard, and standards are generally a good thing, especailly for software developers. Until they become out dated or until hardware starts to outpace them.

DX and D3D have evolved a LOT over the past 20 years, but it's never been able to get back to that hardware level of access that existed back in the DOS days, or whats being done on consoles. Mantle is trying to bridge a gap DX is really not capable of in it's current form on PC. Personally, I think that's exciting, and I think people need to step back and realize that it's going to take time, just as D3D/DX did.

Lastly, as far as DX on XB1 and on PC, there is a difference between the low level access Mantle is trying to give, and dumbing something down. While I am sure the XB1 version of DX has been optimized for the hardware, and may indeed have some "low level abilities" compared to it's PC counterpart. They are really not comparable on the same level as Mantle is.
 
DX on console is lacking capabilities and power that it's PC version has, simply because the hardware environments are so different. You could not easily adapt the console version to PC and hit the level of capability you expect from a PC, no more than the PC version would work on console without a great deal of modification and dumbing down to work in that highly limited hardware environment. If you could simply take the console version of DX and adapt it to work on select PC hardware, it would be inferior to it's current PC version, unless they added back in everything they took out to adapt it to console to begin with, then you would be right back where you started. This is a huge oversimplification, but I think you get the idea.

Again, this is the gap Mantle is trying to bridge. So it's not a matter of Microsoft being "lazy", its more related to the technical limitations of the process. It's always easier to downgrade than to upgrade, things are lost in the transition. Especially when the core of the software is built upon very old standards. Remember, hardware almost always vastly outpaces software.

Well, I am not even going to touch the whole "fanboy" thing, I see way too much of that on the Battlelog (and just about every other game) forum. I have actually started telling people if they want more intelligent conversations or debates, or real technical help or advice, they need to come to forums like this one. You're still going to run into the occasional fanboy, but it's going to be far less than on most gaming forums, especailly Battlelog. lol

Anyway, on topic. I currently have an XFX DD 7970 BE OC (still have not decided what 290X I want, I was going to get the Sapphire Tri-X OC, but it's out of stock everywhere *sad*) and I got an average of about a 10 FPS gain over D3D, with no shutter. In my humble opinion, that's not bad for a beta driver, beta API, on a card that it's not even optimized for, in a buggy game. The only time I had any issues was when I decided to test it out in single player, there was little to no frame rate difference, but there was a lot of shuttering. Multiplayer on the other hand was nice and smooth.

I do know that Mantle uses a crap load of VRAM, on my 3GB 7970 it tops out just over 2600 to 2700 MB of the dedicated memory, and about 300-400 MB of dynamic memory. I swapped out the 7970 for a 7870 GHz 2GB card I have sitting around, and you do get a performance increase, but you also get a lot of shuttering, it easily maxes out the cards 2GB at 1080.

You used to be able to disable triple buffering via the console or user.cfg, but that seems to no longer work, at least for me. That may have helped some users. Some people reported changing the render ahead limit helped reduce shutting as well.

At any rate, I have got to the point where I just keep posting AMD's feedback survey and telling people to report their results to AMD no matter if they are good or bad. That way they can address the issues easier.

I know everyone is all about performance with Mantle right now, and that's great, but I am far more excited about what Mantle will be able to do for games down the road. The level and scale of gameplay it will be able to offer over current API offerings and still maintain playable performance. I am more impressed with the Star Swarm demo than anything right now.
 
Well that post ended up being a lot longer than I intended. =P

Well, I am not even going to touch the whole "fanboy" thing, I see way too much of that on the Battlelog (and just about every other game) forum. I have actually started telling people if they want more intelligent conversations or debates, or real technical help or advice, they need to come to forums like this one. You're still going to run into the occasional fanboy, but it's going to be far less than on most gaming forums, especailly Battlelog. lol

Anyway, on topic. I currently have an XFX DD 7970 BE OC (still have not decided what 290X I want, I was going to get the Sapphire Tri-X OC, but it's out of stock everywhere *sad*) and I got an average of about a 10 FPS gain over D3D, with no shutter. In my humble opinion, that's not bad for a beta driver, beta API, on a card that it's not even optimized for, in a buggy game. The only time I had any issues was when I decided to test it out in single player, there was little to no frame rate difference, but there was a lot of shuttering. Multiplayer on the other hand was nice and smooth.

I do know that Mantle uses a crap load of VRAM, on my 3GB 7970 it tops out just over 2600 to 2700 MB of the dedicated memory, and about 300-400 MB of dynamic memory. I swapped out the 7970 for a 7870 GHz 2GB card I have sitting around, and you do get a performance increase, but you also get a lot of shuttering, it easily maxes out the cards 2GB at 1080.

You used to be able to disable triple buffering via the console or user.cfg, but that seems to no longer work, at least for me. That may have helped some users. Some people reported changing the render ahead limit helped reduce shutting as well.

At any rate, I have got to the point where I just keep posting AMD's feedback survey and telling people to report their results to AMD no matter if they are good or bad. That way they can address the issues easier.

I know everyone is all about performance with Mantle right now, and that's great, but I am far more excited about what Mantle will be able to do for games down the road. The level and scale of gameplay it will be able to offer over current API offerings and still maintain playable performance. I am more impressed with the Star Swarm demo than anything right now.
 
Well that post ended up being a lot longer than I intended. =P

Very true, hence the next line in my post.
 
"Give it a nice big replaceable HDD to store it all. DVD/BD-ROM support, powerful modern hardware comparable to the XB1/PS4, and open it up to developers for new titles so it could compete with Sony and MS."
 
Yeah, no way it would survive on retro alone, it would have to be competative in todays market with modern titles.
 
Still, would be cool. =P

It also pays to consider that some of those numbers are a result of the fact they simply sell more than some of the other brands. If you produce more, sell more, you're chance of RMA/failures also goes up, and it does not always even out.
 
Still, a very interesting read none the less. Personally, I will stick with my own persoanl experiance based on the fact I have been a professional system builder for about 20 years, and trusted online reviews when researching the hardware I intend on buying. Between the two I figure it's my best bet for making the best choice I can at the time.
 
=]