What causes impedance?

[Jack H]

Just a general question. Why do higher end headphones have higher impedance? What causes it?

[AlwaysFSX]

Resistance in the electrical circuit I think?

[Excon]

Not all high end headphones have high impedance, a good example is the Audeze LCD 2

[KingDaddyDaniel]

Resistance in the electrical circuit I think?

Yep. Resistance caused by strand count, material of conductor, gauge of wire, and voice coil size and type (such as dual voice-coil and single voice-coil)

[Jack H]

Not all high end headphones have high impedance, a good example is the Audeze LCD 2

Interesting. Still wondering what causes the impedance though. Fast as possible episode Linus  ?

[UselessBread]

I am going to take a stab in the dark and say self-inductance.

[Jack H]

Yep. Resistance caused by strand count, material of conductor, gauge of wire, and voice coil size and type (such as dual voice-coil and single voice-coil)

So why wouldn't manufactures use components with lower impedance? Do high quality parts like you said above inherently have more electrical resistance??

[Peter Vaughan Truslow]

if you make the wire longer or thinner impeadance increases functioning as a resistor.

when forming a coil a larger number of turns increases inductance and as far as I know resistance would increase if the inductance of the voice coil or the strength of the magnetic field it was in were to increase.

[DigitalHermit]

It has mostly something to do with the voice coil (I forgot my EEE lessons on this)... It's basically an inductor...

[Peter Vaughan Truslow]

So why wouldn't manufactures use components with lower impedance? Do high quality parts like you said above inherently have more electrical resistance??

manufacturers usully use copper or copper clad aluminum wire for their conductors in headphones due to it's flexability, conductivity, and generally good audio properties. low resistance isn't a necessity in the headphone voice coil and in fact counterintuitively high resistance is often preferred to negate the resistance of amplifiers and connectors.

the lowest resistance you could get reasonably would be silver but it wouldn't necessarily translate to better sonic qualities for a voice coil.

[KingDaddyDaniel]

So why wouldn't manufactures use components with lower impedance? Do high quality parts like you said above inherently have more electrical resistance??

Pure Hoopla. Bomb cost between high end and low end speakers can be extremely similar.

If you wanted to make a good business investment, start up a speaker manufacturing company. Mass produce speakers and sell them with small profit margin. You'll make millions

[Jack H]

manufacturers usully use copper or copper clad aluminum wire for their conductors in headphones due to it's flexability, conductivity, and generally good audio properties. low resistance isn't a necessity in the headphone voice coil and in fact counterintuitively high resistance is often preferred to negate the resistance of amplifiers and connectors.

the lowest resistance you could get reasonably would be silver but it wouldn't necessarily translate to better sonic qualities for a voice coil.

So would higher impedance of higher-end headphones (even if this is not always the case) be caused by the use of more coils, connectors, amps, etc?

[Peter Vaughan Truslow]

So would higher impedance of higher-end headphones (even if this is not always the case) be caused by the use of more coils, connectors, amps, etc?

usually the higher impeadance is due to a greater number of turns on the coil or finer strands. generally higher impeadance is preferred because it is best for the headphone's impeadance to be at least 8x the output impeadance of the amplifier used, although a greater difference is better because the impeadance of the headphone is not constant but rather varies based on frequency and a similar headphone and amp impeadance would impact frequency response.

[DigitalHermit]

So would higher impedance of higher-end headphones (even if this is not always the case) be caused by the use of more coils, connectors, amps, etc?

 

Not exactly... More turns of wire on the coil is the main reason...

 

Edit: ninja'd with a better explanation

 

Edit2: There's also the type of driver used... balacned armatures have generally low impedances with planar drivers usually having the highest (don't quote me on this)...

[KingDaddyDaniel]

So would higher impedance of higher-end headphones (even if this is not always the case) be caused by the use of more coils, connectors, amps, etc?

more coils, connectors and higher amps would reduce impedance.

More coils allows power to flow easier(less resistance).

More connections to the coils increases power being shoved through total amount of wires and coils.

More amps causes more inefficient power usage, but also reduces impedance.

 

When you approach 1Ohm you would start to turn the wires into a super-conductor and (theoretically) reach 1Ohm. If we had a metal that could sustain enough amperage being flown through it to reach 1Ohm, then we would have the world's first superconductor.

[Jack H]

Not exactly... More turns of wire on the coil is the main reason...

 

Edit: ninja'd with a better explanation

 

Edit2: There's also the type of driver used... balacned armatures have generally low impedances with planar drivers usually having the highest (don't quote me on this)...

Okay, so I'm assuming turns of the wire is increased on higher-end headphones, and that this plays a big part in sound quality. Would that be correct?

[DigitalHermit]

Okay, so I'm assuming turns of the wire is increased on higher-end headphones, and that this plays a big part in sound quality. Would that be correct?

 

depends on the design.. Increasing turns does not automatically equate to better sound quality since it can also affect the resonance frequency of the driver...

 

It all comes down to the skill of the designers and engineers involved in making the headphones...

[steffen_anywhere]

Interesting. Still wondering what causes the impedance though. Fast as possible episode Linus  ?

 

Impedance is the electrical resistance of your headphones/speakers. Factors affecting impedance include driver design, driver size (which impacts the length/dimensions of the voice coil for dynamic drivers for example). Usually, large drivers have higher electrical resistance.

 

As for 'causing' impedance...the electrical resistivity of the copper (or whatever) coil(s) used. Feel free to ask more specific questions

[JAKEBAB]

This is a bit off topic but all this talk about copper etc what if they used fiber in the headphones? Is that even possible would it give any gain?

[steffen_anywhere]

more coils, connectors and higher amps would reduce impedance.

More coils allows power to flow easier(less resistance).

More connections to the coils increases power being shoved through total amount of wires and coils.

More amps causes more inefficient power usage, but also reduces impedance.

 

When you approach 1Ohm you would start to turn the wires into a super-conductor and (theoretically) reach 1Ohm. If we had a metal that could sustain enough amperage being flown through it to reach 1Ohm, then we would have the world's first superconductor.

 

^^^ does not know what they are talking about, sorry...Not really how that works unless I'm misunderstanding you, so please don't get mad

 

Superconductors exist...now. Also, a superconductor has 'zero' resistance per definition. Not one ohm.

 

What do you mean by "higher amps decrease resistance"??? Lower resistance with the same driving potential difference will result in higher current, but not the other way around.

 

Parallel coils decrease resistance, but you don't usually have that in headphones. Most driver designs use single voice coils, so unless you have a headphone with more than one driver, this is irrelevant.

 

LONGER coils have HIGHER impedance as given by R=resistivity x (length/cross-sectional area)...

[NannerBeans]

Pure Hoopla. Bomb cost between high end and low end speakers can be extremely similar.

If you wanted to make a good business investment, start up a speaker manufacturing company. Mass produce speakers and sell them with small profit margin. You'll make millions

It's not that easy. Even if you have the best drivers and what not in a speaker, it'll sound like shit if the enclosure isn't a good design. It takes a lot of R&D to make a quality speaker.

[Lays]

Not exactly... More turns of wire on the coil is the main reason...

 

Edit: ninja'd with a better explanation

 

Edit2: There's also the type of driver used... balacned armatures have generally low impedances with planar drivers usually having the highest (don't quote me on this)...

 

 

Most planar magnetic headphones range from 38-70 ohm, there is only 1 that I know off the top of my head that is above 100 ohm, and that is the Audeze LCD-3 Fazor(130ohm).

[steffen_anywhere]

This is a bit off topic but all this talk about copper etc what if they used fiber in the headphones? Is that even possible would it give any gain?

 

No... Optical fibre connections do not actually rely on electricity to transmit a signal. Therefore you only use them for digital signals. You can transmit a digital audio signal via a fibre connection, but after analog conversion, you need an electric conductor. So you can't 'use' fibre for headphones...

[BoredErica]

 

depends on the design.. Increasing turns does not automatically equate to better sound quality since it can also affect the resonance frequency of the driver...

 

It all comes down to the skill of the designers and engineers involved in making the headphones...

Not to mention, with costlier headphones the manufacturers know the customers won't be super annoyed with a higher impedance headphone. If the Kingston Cloud had 300 ohm impedance and a low sensitivity nobody would use it because it makes no sense for the customers to be buying an amp for a cheap pair of headphones. With an expensive headphone the manufacturers are free to do what they think will be best for the sound, whether that means higher or lower impedance.

 

 

The best explanation will be given in HA. I can ask for you but by the time I have a good answer you might have all moved on from the thread.

[KingDaddyDaniel]

^^^ does not know what they are talking about, sorry...Not really how that works unless I'm misunderstanding you, so please don't get mad

 

Superconductors exist...now. Also, a superconductor has 'zero' resistance per definition. Not one ohm.

 

What do you mean by "higher amps decrease resistance"??? Lower resistance with the same driving potential difference will result in higher current, but not the other way around.

 

Parallel coils decrease resistance, but you don't usually have that in headphones. Most driver designs use single voice coils, so unless you have a headphone with more than one driver, this is irrelevant.

 

LONGER coils have HIGHER impedance as given by R=resistivity x (length/cross-sectional area)...

Yep, my bad. Confused 0 ohms with 1 ohm.

Also, if you pay attention to Newton's third law, then you'd know that it's impossible for a true superconductor to exist.

You'd have to reach absolute zero for a superconductor to actually exist (not possible on this planet)

 

When you increase the amps(I) and the voltage(V) remains the same, then resistance® decreases. R = V/I or 0.15Ohm = 12Volts/80Amps and if you increase the amps then the resistance will decrease 0.096Ohm = 12Volts/125Amps