Bad ram causing freezing with no BSOD?

[jmasta111]

Okay guys so before I get into explaining my problem I feel I need to add a little context. So, every time I build a new computer I don't really "build" a completely new rig, I salvage old parts from previous rigs that aren't needed to be upgraded and move them to the new system, slowly upgrading parts over time until all of the old parts a replaced. Okay, so that said, several years ago I bought an OEM Asus refurbished desktop because I didn't have the time to put into building a new rig at that time in my life and my laptop I was using at the time had died so I needed to do something fast. After about six months of using it, though, I realized that it had a problem: the RAM. I found that if I ran my computer for more than 24 hours continuously without shutting it down it would blue screen and tell me it was because of "memory_management". I also found this would also sometimes happen under heavy ram intensive workloads like video editing and rendering. Well, since it was refurbed it was out of warranty by this point and I found that the issue wasn't really too big of a problem if I shut down my PC nightly (plus I couldn't afford new RAM) so I just went on using this ram regardless (btw this RAM was a 4x2GB 1333 Apacer kit). So a few years and numerous parts upgrades happened until the only two parts remaining in my system from that Asus OEM PC was my RAM and my DVD burner, everything else had been replaced. Over time though, the RAM issue persisted but never got much worse until about 5 months ago when the RAM BSOD's began to happen somewhat more frequently. Things weren't too much worse but the issue was becoming more of a problem so that I could at least notice the change. Now we'll fast forward to about a month ago and my RAM issues REALLY started to get bad. I would get the BSOD's at least a couple times a week and often regardless of whether I had shut down my system the previous night. At this point I knew that I could not put off buying new RAM any longer, and despite my reluctance because of the almost doubling in RAM prices due to that megafab fire a couple months ago, I decided that my first paycheck after the holidays would go to buying a new kit of RAM. Well, over the past two weeks my RAM issues got really bad. I was getting loads of Blue Screen's all over the place and now my computer was starting to freeze without giving any blue screen's at all sometimes. This started happening whenever I would go to render a video ( I do quite a bit of video rendering and therefore put quite a bit of stress on my system). My video would be rendering and then randomly in the process my computer would just freeze, no bluescreen, no nothing. AT this point it was getting very difficult to ignore the issue at hand but I wanted to make sure that I ruled out all possibilities. I did a fresh (clean format) install of windows (upgrade from Win7 64 to Win8.1 64), cleaned and dusted my radiator and components thoroughly, applied new thermal paste to CPU block, and yet the problem still persisted (and got worse). Well, over the past week as I neared my payday, the issue really got bad. Even attempting to render a video was completely out of the question at this point, my computer would freeze/hang and blue screen completely randomly all the time, until it got to the point where after getting to my desktop for 15 seconds the computer would freeze. At this point I decided to not even try to power on my computer anymore (seeing as it froze on the Windows 8 logo before it even got to the logon screen), and ordered a kit of Kingston Blu 2x4GB 1600Mhz RAM via Amazon Prime so it would get here as soon as possible. It showed up today and I eagerly slapped it in my rig (after removing the previous Apacer death sticks) and tried to boot my PC. The first time I booted it, it just stayed on a black screen for about 10 minutes until I decided to reboot and try again. The second time I got the Windows 8 logo and that spinning ball you get while it boots, which I thought was a good sign, but it just did this for 15 minutes without going anywhere so I shut it down and tried again. I tried once more and got the black screen again so I decided to boot into my UEFI and check to see if my RAM timings were set correctly and everything looked okay. Ram recognized? Check. Timings correct? Check. HDD's recognized? Check. Okay so I tried booting once more and this time I actually got to the logon screen. I typed in my password, hit the enter button, it started loading for about 5 seconds and then just... froze again.

So, this leads us to my main question. I am an enthusiast and know quite a bit about computers but realize in relative terms my breadth of knowledge is quite modest so I could be wrong, but it seems to me that my issue is probably that my bad memory has caused disk errors on my C: drive. I do have all of my stuff backed up and CAN do another wipe and reinstall if necessary, but that would be very inconvenient seeing as I have a lot of random software and shit to install. So, my question to you is what is my next course of action and is my theory that there is disk corruption correct? I please ask that if I am wrong you tell me as I would love to get this issue worked out. I will provide my specs below and I hope to get this figured out as soon as possible.

Thanks in advance
-Julian
julianlicht@gmail.com

TL;DR Computer is freezing without bluescreen. Ram replaced but problem persists.

Updates: CMOS cleared, voltages adjusted, BIOS updated, HDD checked for errors (irrelevant due to crashing while booted via Win8.1 thumbstick), heat levels on motherboard stable, system has been dusted and thermal paste has been re-applied. Problem still persists.

◦FX-8350 @ 4.0Ghz
◦ASrock 970 Extreme4
◦Corsair H60 CPU cooler (stock fan)
◦2x4GB Kingston Blu 1600Mhz CL9 (new kit)
◦Gigabyte Windforce 7950 @ 1000/1250
◦1TB 7200RPM Seagate Barracuda 3.5" HDD
◦500GB 7200RPM Western Digital Caviar Blue 3.5" HDD
◦Antec Neo Eco 620w 80+ Bronze PSU
◦AverMedia Live Gamer HD (internal HDMI capture card)
◦Asus 24x DVD-R/W Optical Drive
◦NZXT Tempest 410 Elite
◦Cooler Master CM Storm Quickfire Pro Mechanical Keyboard (MX Brown)
◦Corsair M60 Mouse
◦E-Machines e230H 23" 1080p Monitor (rebranded Acer)
◦Dell 15" Old POS VGA Monitor
◦M-Audio Producer USB Condenser Mic
◦Logitech 2.1 Stereo Speakers

[Crisi]

Clear the CMOS

then try raising cpu, nb, and ram voltages

next try running ram on looser timings

[Retro Gaming]

Clear the CMOS

then try raising cpu, nb, and ram voltages

next try running ram on looser timings

I second this, clearing the CMOS seems to do the trick.

[jmasta111]

I second this, clearing the CMOS seems to do the trick.

 

 

Clear the CMOS

then try raising cpu, nb, and ram voltages

next try running ram on looser timings

Right so I had already tried clearing the CMOS but forgot to mention it because it was just kind of a given to me (my apologies). In addition, I just raised the volts on my DRAM/NB but still crashed consistently. I hadn't done this before because I that shouldn't be necessary running in this stock configuration but did it anyway. I am willing to try running the RAM on looser timings but don't see why that would be necessary or a fix of the root problem. If you want me to do that though, which timings do you recommend I run?, as I am currently running stock (9-9-9-27).

 

I will also try checking my disk and post results here.

 

[jmasta111]

Okay guys so I've got some bad news. Just to recap, I already cleared the CMOS and raised the voltages on CPU/NB and DRAM. When those two things didn't work I decided to go and try and check the disks via the command line on my Windows 8.1 thumbstick (seeing as I can't boot into my Windows installation). I ran check disk and it had gotten to Stage 5 without detecting any errors, and was about 3/4 of the way through Stage 5 when I realized that the ETA timer had stopped ticking...

So yeah, the computer froze even when running from bootable thumbstick completely independent of HDD so that rules out there being any disk errors. This happened with my old RAM and is happening with my new RAM as well... so where does that mean the problem lies? Please if someone would respond i'd really appreciate it as i'm honestly starting to run out of ideas here.


 

[jmasta111]

I'm thinking maybe at this point it means it is the motherboard? Or maybe the graphics card? I don't know if the graphics card would continue to keep an image on screen if that were the issue, and I don't think it is because when I was in windows and I would be watching a YouTube video or something the sound would stop too.

Maybe it's my PSU? I cleaned my rig of dust (focusing on radiator and GPU mostly) the other day but cleaned the whole thing relatively well. I know I at least did a few sprays into the PSU fan and it doesn't look like it's clogged up with dust but I guess I could try dusting that off.

I really just don't know guys i'm kinda just grasping at straws here at this point

[Colombini]

Hi

 

Try the following, set your bios at opitmised default.

Disconnect al non essential components, just use your mainbord, ram, videocard, PSU, screen, keybord, bootable media, nothing else!

test if the system will boot, make a bootable usb-stick (disk) with Memtest.

Let it run for 24 hours, if nothing happens, no errors, your ram is stable.

Check the heat levels on your mainbord, if the bord is verry hot, it can be unstable beacause of the heat.

If that is not the case, check the PSU for loose connections bad pins, ore cracking noises, exessive coilwine, if that is not the case the system is stable, start adding more components, one at a time, check for stablillety using prime 95 or Aida stress test.

If the system craches after installing a component, than most likely that component is defective.

It is a process of elimination.

 

i hope you find the problemm

[Crisi]

Try updating the BIOS

[jmasta111]

Hi

 

Try the following, set your bios at opitmised default.

Disconnect al non essential components, just use your mainbord, ram, videocard, PSU, screen, keybord, bootable media, nothing else!

test if the system will boot, make a bootable usb-stick (disk) with Memtest.

Let it run for 24 hours, if nothing happens, no errors, your ram is stable.

Check the heat levels on your mainbord, if the bord is verry hot, it can be unstable beacause of the heat.

If that is not the case, check the PSU for loose connections bad pins, ore cracking noises, exessive coilwine, if that is not the case the system is stable, start adding more components, one at a time, check for stablillety using prime 95 or Aida stress test.

If the system craches after installing a component, than most likely that component is defective.

It is a process of elimination.

 

i hope you find the problemm

 

 

Try updating the BIOS

First off, I just flashed my BIOS to newest version and the problem continues to persist.

 

Secondly, in reply to Colombini:

• BIOS was already set as optimized default to begin with, and has been tested with several other configurations since then
• All non-essential components and peripherals HAVE already been disconnected.
• The system will not boot for any more than 1-2 minutes (most times not even getting the the desktop) so I don't see the point in testing with Memtest. I have already tested with two separate kits of RAM and the system still crashed even when I was running dskchk off of my Windows 8 thumbstick.
• The heat levels on my motherboard are fine. I have good airflow in my case and the temps were at 29C when I checked them.
• There are no loose connections or bad pins on the PSU. There is no cracking noise. There is no coil whine.

 

[Ryan Leech]

I would try booting into linux off of a flash drive. Try running in linux for a while and see what happens.

[jmasta111]

I would try booting into linux off of a flash drive. Try running in linux for a while and see what happens.

I don't see how the OS could be to blame here. I already told you that this issue occurred on an install of Windows 7 as well as Windows 8.1, and also occurred when running off of a Windows 8.1 flash drive doing Disk Check

[Ryan Leech]

I don't see how the OS could be to blame here. I already told you that this issue occurred on an install of Windows 7 as well as Windows 8.1, and also occurred when running off of a Windows 8.1 flash drive doing Disk Check

Just humor me. The problem could be windows compatibility.

[ltguy]

Omg I have the exact same motherboard and that thing locks up for 15-20 seconds randomly all the time. I've spent hours troubleshooting it and swapping parts and nothing seem to fix it. I superstitiously blamed the board and stopped using the Asrock. If someone figures this out let me know. I had no issues with the same hardware on a gigabyte motherboard i had prior.

[jmasta111]

Just humor me. The problem could be windows compatibility.

Okay, I will go and get a Mint installer or something (been out of the Linux scene for about 5 years so I assume that will work) and try booting off of that from a thumbdrive. If it works, though, what would be my next step. I don't want to run Linux because there are games I like to play on Windows and pieces of productivity software that I absolutely cannot operate without. Furthermore, I don't really understand how a board would just over time develop a problem with Windows compatibility. I've run this board for eight months on Windows and this problem only started happening recently. Because of this I am very skeptical that installing Linux would fix, let alone answer, the underlying issue here.

[jmasta111]

Omg I have the exact same motherboard and that thing locks up for 15-20 seconds randomly all the time. I've spent hours troubleshooting it and swapping parts and nothing seem to fix it. I superstitiously blamed the board and stopped using the Asrock. If someone figures this out let me know. I had no issues with the same hardware on a gigabyte motherboard i had prior.

Motherboard issues have, much to my chagrin, very rapidly become a more and more likely culprit to this issue as everything else has been eliminated. Unfortunately the other motherboard that I previously thought I might be able to swap out turned out to be an AM3 (not AM3+) board so that is no longer an option.

[jmasta111]

Bump. Anybody have any further imput on what the issue might be? Or is it time to RMA my motherboard?

[skitz9417]

i think its the board mate time rma it sadly

[jmasta111]

i think its the board mate time rma it sadly

Yup, unfortunately i'm going to have to agree. I knew it was a very strong possibility from the very beginning but seeing as it is by far the biggest pain the ass I was trying everything else first.

Anyways, thanks for the help guys, I will RMA my board and that will most likely clear up the issue. If not... well let's just assume for now that it is. Either way i'll report back to this thread and post my findings.

Ciao~

[Cwazywazy]

Wait, have you tried running one stick at a time to see if it is actually one of your RAM sticks?

[brob]

@jmasta111, paragraphs are your friend. The OP is not worth wading through.

 

[jmasta111]

Wait, have you tried running one stick at a time to see if it is actually one of your RAM sticks?

Had already tested the old ramsticks and now they have issues. The new kit I bought I have not tested outside of this system, but the odds of two kits in a row having the same issue are astronomically low compared to the likelihood that it is the motherboard.

[jmasta111]

 

@jmasta111, paragraphs are your friend. The OP is not worth wading through.

 

 

I updated the main post for those who don't like reading. Happy now?

[jmasta111]

Okay so I'm here to update you guys on the issue. I RMA'd my motherboard and got it back yesterday. I rebuilt the system and low and behold, I am still having the issues. The system freezes when I boot to Windows 8.1 from hard disk and when I boot the latest version of Xubuntu via USB thumbstick (although it does boot so I know all the components are connected together properly). So, it wasn't the motherboard. 

At this point I am thinking that it is probably the power supply, which I feel like a moron for not testing before the motherboard because it is much easier to test. I figure that the best course of action at this stage seeing as I have no extra power supply suitable to drive my rig (even with only essential components) would be to order one off of amazon, test it, and then return it. If it turns out that I plug in the new power supply and it DOES work then I guess it's time to RMA my PSU as well (again, I feel very dumb for not doing this before). If it doesn't work... well I guess i'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Before I do this though I just wanted to hear your guys' opinion on whether this would be the best course of action or not.

Thank you for your continued support

[Vader]

Okay so I'm here to update you guys on the issue. I RMA'd my motherboard and got it back yesterday. I rebuilt the system and low and behold, I am still having the issues. The system freezes when I boot to Windows 8.1 from hard disk and when I boot the latest version of Xubuntu via USB thumbstick (although it does boot so I know all the components are connected together properly). So, it wasn't the motherboard. 

At this point I am thinking that it is probably the power supply, which I feel like a moron for not testing before the motherboard because it is much easier to test. I figure that the best course of action at this stage seeing as I have no extra power supply suitable to drive my rig (even with only essential components) would be to order one off of amazon, test it, and then return it. If it turns out that I plug in the new power supply and it DOES work then I guess it's time to RMA my PSU as well (again, I feel very dumb for not doing this before). If it doesn't work... well I guess i'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Before I do this though I just wanted to hear your guys' opinion on whether this would be the best course of action or not.

Thank you for your continued support

there was a post earlier that said to try 1 memory stick at a time. I would try the memory sticks 1 at a time.  If the problem still goes on, take the video card out and try with on board graphics. 

[jmasta111]

there was a post earlier that said to try 1 memory stick at a time. I would try the memory sticks 1 at a time.  If the problem still goes on, take the video card out and try with on board graphics. 

I appreciate your post but please read all of what was posted before and my specs. I have said that I have already tried a brand new kit of RAM and if you looked at the spec list my board has no onboard graphics, so that is not an option either.

Also, it is very unlikely that a failed graphics card would cause this. When they fail they don't tend to cause system freezes in the way I am experiencing.

Again, thank you for trying to help though.