Backup Software. Planing - need help/software tips

[G.e.o]

*Please let me know if i should post this somewhere else. Not sure if it's the right thread.

 

Hi guys,

 

Got a new upgrade (it's in the mail, not here yet). Going to get an Asus Strix Scar II laptop and as storage goes it has a 1x SSD + 1x  1Tb SSHD (Firecuda i guess?). I also got an additional 2 TB Seagate Firecuda SSHD that i am going to use as an external drive.

Now i know that Seagate isn't the most reliable hard drive on the market. Some say it's not some say it's a conspiracy. Who am i to judge? But Linus always yells on camera to "BACKUP YOUR DATA!" and i intend to listen.

I never felt the need to actually backup my files i usually rely on S.M.A.R.T. to tell me if something is wrong and i never had an issue. But i also never had Seagate storage.

 

I need help to make a plan for automatically backing up part of my data. I never did this automatically i just took care to copy paste on more storage options so i would have a copy.

I was thinking of making a partition on the internal SSHD, around 200 GB where i could keep any important documents, family pictures, Desktop/Documents folders (i always move them out of the SSD to not cripple it) etc. I would also have a 200 Gb partition on my external drive.

What programs would you recommend to use in the above case? Something to mirror what is on the internal SSHD to the external SSHD once per day. Maybe every time i connect it? Or maybe every time there is a modification or a new file?

I would also be very happy if the said program wouldn't go crazy with notifications in case i go mobile and don't have the secondary SSHD with me. Just a simple sync when the drive is connected.

 

OR maybe you have a better idea? As i said i have no experience with this.

Would gladly respond to any questions in order to clarify.

 

Thank you!!!

 

[Speed Weed]

Macrium Reflect Free or AOMEI Backup Free are my recommended for free backup solution. 

[G.e.o]

Thanks!

I checked both of them and it looks like AOMEI has what i need.

Question (i couldn't find the answer on their site) for File backup if i remove something from source, just delete a file, with the next backup will it also delete it from the destination?
Do you have any idea if it works like that?

 

[Speed Weed]

14 hours ago, G.e.o said:

Thanks!

I checked both of them and it looks like AOMEI has what i need.

 Question (i couldn't find the answer on their site) for File backup if i remove something from source, just delete a file, with the next backup will it also delete it from the destination?
Do you have any idea if it works like that?

 

What do you mean by that? 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

The basic principle of backups is your data needs to exist in three places in order to be reasonably safe. for most people, this would be on the computer, on an onsite backup drive and on an offsite backup drive. For a backup drive to be a true backup drive, it must be kept powered own and disconnected from the omputer at al times, except while updating the backup, and stored away from the computer. This eliminates the idea of having automated backups. Onsite and offsite backup drives should be swapped out as often as possible to keep both as up to date as possible.

 

Unless you already have the computer or it's already been ordered, I would just get a regular HDD for the storage drive in the computer. You will see no benefit from the SSHD.

 

Ideally, to simplify backups, you should keep the OS and programs only on the SSD and data only on the HDD (or SSHD).

 

To backup your SSD, imaging is the most efficent. You will need a place to store the images off the computer. If your onsite and offsite backup drives are large enough, you can store the images in a folder on them. Otherwise, you will need at least one more backup drive to store them on.

 

For imaging, I recommend using Macrium Reflect Free. It's easy to use and is reliable. After installing your imaging program on the SSD, the first thing you need to do is create rescue media (CD or USB flash drive). I recommend making two in case one goes south. You will need the rescue media for restoring images to the SSD. Despite what many claim, it is not necessary to use the rescue media to create the images; you can do that from tthe program on the computer.

 

You should make an image of the SSD right after creating the rescue media. The only time you need to make new images is just before making any changes to the computer, such as updating the OS or programs, deleting a program, or changing any settings. How many images you keep depends on hpow much space you have to store them. Older ones can be deleted to save space but you should always keep at least the last two or three plus the first one you made.

 

You should always run antivirus and other antimalware program scans prior to making an image to avoid backing up malware.

 

Data is best backed up using a folder/file syncing program (I recommend FreeFileSync, another free program). When set to Mirror Mode, a folder/file syncing program will compare the data drive in your computer to the backup drive, then will copy any new or changed files on the computer data drive but not on the backup drive to the backup drive. Any files on the backup drive that are not on the computer's data drive will be deleted. This results in what is essentially an exact copy of your computer's data drive on the backup drive.

 

Many folder/file syncing programs, including FreeFileSync, have a feature called Versioning. When enabled (which I strongly recommend), Versioning will send files deleted from the bacckup drive to a user designated Backup drive or folder. This protects you from losing corrupted or accidentally deleted files.

 

Since only new, changed, or deleted files are envolved each time you update your backup, backup updates are usually very fast. Backups should be updated as soon as practical after adding or change critical data that can't be replaced.

 

Again, before updating data backups, you need to run your antivirus, etc. scans.

 

While a bit time consuming to set up, including learning how to use the software, once set up, updating backups is usually very fast and easy to do.

[AbsoluteFool]

Personally i have both cold and hot backups.

I have my main workstation where i do work of course + my dev server where i have my projects and temporary files. And thirdly i have my NAS. No i copy the files from computer to my server. When i am done for the day i put everything on the NAS. Then i dublicate it to another NAS again

However a little fast forward my backup strategy is to have atleast three copies in three different locations so 9 copies total. A little overly done, but oh well, better safe than sorry.

 

A backup that is just a drive shoved in a drawer or a closet, is not a "true" backup. In case of fire, all your files are gone. If theft all files are gone (unless you have a safe they don't take of course.) However backup is very complicated to know when you have enough and when you are "safe" from loosing the data. But that's something you'll have to figure out by evaluating different things that could happen.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

6 minutes ago, AbsoluteFool said:

Personally i have both cold and hot backups.

I have my main workstation where i do work of course + my dev server where i have my projects and temporary files. And thirdly i have my NAS. No i copy the files from computer to my server. When i am done for the day i put everything on the NAS. Then i dublicate it to another NAS again...

As long as your server and NAS are kept powered up and connected to the computer, they are not true backups. The will prtect against drive failure but not from other causes of data loss, most notbly infection from viruses and other malware.

 

14 minutes ago, AbsoluteFool said:

...However a little fast forward my backup strategy is to have atleast three copies in three different locations so 9 copies total...

The usual rule of thumb is to have data existing in three places. For most people, this is on the computer, on an onsite backup, and on an offsite backup. Any storage that stays powered up and connected to the computer is NOT a backup; it's merely part of the computer.

6 minutes ago, AbsoluteFool said:

...A backup that is just a drive shoved in a drawer or a closet, is not a "true" backup. In case of fire, all your files are gone. If theft all files are gone (unless you have a safe they don't take of course.)...

Actually, a drive shoved in a closet or drawer is a true backup, better known as an onsite backup. Onsite backups are needed because they are easiest to keep up to date and access for recovery. However, as you pointed out, onsite backups are susceptable to dangers such as fire or theft. That's why offsite backups are essential. Onsite and offsite backups should be swapped out as frequently as possible to keep the offsite backup as update as possible.

 

27 minutes ago, AbsoluteFool said:

...However backup is very complicated to know when you have enough and when you are "safe" from loosing the data. But that's something you'll have to figure out by evaluating different things that could happen.

Actually, the concept of backups is not at all complicated. It's very simple. Again, for data to be reasonably safe, it must exist in three places, usually on the computer, on an onsite backup, and on an offsite backup. For a backup to be a true backup, it must be kept powered down and disconnected from the computer at all times except while updating the backup. This doesn't mean one can add more backups or incorporate redundancy in a backup (although redundancy by itself is not a backup). 

[AbsoluteFool]

10 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

As long as your server and NAS are kept powered up and connected to the computer, they are not true backups. The will prtect against drive failure but not from other causes of data loss, most notbly infection from viruses and other malware.

 

The usual rule of thumb is to have data existing in three places. For most people, this is on the computer, on an onsite backup, and on an offsite backup. Any storage that stays powered up and connected to the computer is NOT a backup; it's merely part of the computer.

Actually, a drive shoved in a closet or drawer is a true backup, better known as an onsite backup. Onsite backups are needed because they are easiest to keep up to date and access for recovery. However, as you pointed out, onsite backups are susceptable to dangers such as fire or theft. That's why offsite backups are essential. Onsite and offsite backups should be swapped out as frequently as possible to keep the offsite backup as update as possible.

 

Actually, the concept of backups is not at all complicated. It's very simple. Again, for data to be reasonably safe, it must exist in three places, usually on the computer, on an onsite backup, and on an offsite backup. For a backup to be a true backup, it must be kept powered down and disconnected from the computer at all times except while updating the backup. This doesn't mean one can add more backups or incorporate redundancy in a backup (although redundancy by itself is not a backup). 

That is subjective. A backup shoved in a closet on a drive is not a true backup. If the computer is a part of your "backup" sheme it's not a true three copy backup. And yes, powered up backups are true backups. How do you think data centers handle mass data backup? by pulling out drives and putting them on a shelf somewhere? Common. it's praticly impossible to keep track on information that way when you reach enough data. That's why we have systems that checks folders for updated files and sync them if needed.

 

 

In that theory you describe you can have a file on two computers and it will be backed up two times. Which is quite common pratice in data centers. But then it's not a "true" backup, in the sence you are describing backups. That's the same as saying write your files on two DVDs and you have a backup with your computer that might be aboout to fail as the third. While this might be true it's not a good pratice to have backups powered down unless you can check them every so often. Which people tend not to do. In this case a NAS as a backup would be better than pulling out a drive and forgetting about it in the long run. 

 

 

As i've said before. While powered on systems have higer chance of failure, an offline drive can also fail depending on the conditions it's in while powered off.

 

 

As for viruses depends very on what you are prepared for and what type of file system you use. One type of virus doesen't "bite" on all possible file systems. So this is also a pratice you can lay into consideration. It would be worse to plug inn a cold "backup" into an infected computer. Which will result in your backup being useless.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

1 hour ago, AbsoluteFool said:

That is subjective. A backup shoved in a closet on a drive is not a true backup. If the computer is a part of your "backup" sheme it's not a true three copy backup. And yes, powered up backups are true backups. How do you think data centers handle mass data backup? by pulling out drives and putting them on a shelf somewhere? Common. it's praticly impossible to keep track on information that way when you reach enough data. That's why we have systems that checks folders for updated files and sync them if needed...

The mininum number of copies of data one needs is only three (including the data on the computer). If you want four or more, that's fine but it isn't absolutely necessary. Heck, I have a set of four backup drives for every data drive in my computer (two onsite and two offsite for each set) but I don't expect everyone to have that many.

 

Data that is on a drive that is kept connected to a computer and powered up is not a backup, it is redundancy, the same as RAID is redundancy. Redundancy only protects data from drive failure (up to the failure tolerance of the redundancy). Most users and even small to medium sized businesses simply cannot afford that level of protection.

 

A backup drive that is powered up is subject to data loss if a power surge blows through any surge protection or a PSU shorts out and the drive gets fried, not just from wear and tear. If the powered up drive is connected to the computer while powered up, any infection or user error that affects the data on the computer will also affect the data on the "backup" drive.

 

You apparently have no idea how a data center works. Comparing a commercial data center to a noncommercial user set up is comparing apples to kunquats. Data centers have multiple layers of advanced AV protection, fire supression systems, backup generators and air conditioning systems, armed guards, georedundancy (data duplicated in multiple data centers spread hundreds of miles apart), versioning, etc. to protect a client's data.

 

It is far from impossible to keep track of information on a backup drive that is kept offline. It's actually quite easy. I've been doing it for years without a problem. There are numerous folder/file syncing programs (FreeFileSync is my favorite although SyncToy is also popular) that, when set to mirror mode (not the same as RAID 1, btw) that will do just that and do it quickly (usually in just a few minutes).

 

1 hour ago, AbsoluteFool said:

...In that theory you describe you can have a file on two computers and it will be backed up two times. Which is quite common pratice in data centers. But then it's not a "true" backup, in the sence you are describing backups. That's the same as saying write your files on two DVDs and you have a backup with your computer that might be aboout to fail as the third. While this might be true it's not a good pratice to have backups powered down unless you can check them every so often. Which people tend not to do. In this case a NAS as a backup would be better than pulling out a drive and forgetting about it in the long run...

Again, powered backups are not a true backup; they are redundancy. A drive that data has copied onto then stuffed onto a shelf or in a drawer and left alone for long periods of time is also not a true backup; it's an archive. A backup has to be updated whenever critical data is added or changed inorder to be a true backup. If your system is set up correctly, this is not difficult or time consuming to do. It does require one to put out a little effort on your part but it would actually take less than what you do already. As far as people tending not to do so goes, it's no different than servicing a car at regular intervals to keep it in good shape and under warranty or taking your medicine as needed. You have to assume some responsibility for your data.

 

1 hour ago, AbsoluteFool said:

...As i've said before. While powered on systems have higer chance of failure, an offline drive can also fail depending on the conditions it's in while powered off.

Higher chances of failure with powered on drives is not the issue here (even though it's true). The greater danger is data being infected, corrupted, or wiped out if the computer gets infected.

 

True, drives that set for long periods can go bad but they should never be allowed to set for long periods. Even archival drives should be run every so often to keep them in good shape and to ensure they haven't failed. That said, even backup drives of any age, even new, can irrecoverably fail at any time without warning.

1 hour ago, AbsoluteFool said:

...As for viruses depends very on what you are prepared for and what type of file system you use. One type of virus doesen't "bite" on all possible file systems. So this is also a pratice you can lay into consideration. It would be worse to plug inn a cold "backup" into an infected computer. Which will result in your backup being useless.

You are correct that it would be bad to connect a backup drive to an infected computer (this is another reason for having more than one backup drive). However, all one needs to do is run antivirus and antimalware scans immediately prior to updating a backup drive. This isn't rocket science, for crying out loud. 

[AbsoluteFool]

1 minute ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

 

 

A backup drive that is powered up is subject to data loss if a power surge blows through any surge protection or a PSU shorts out and the drive gets fried, not just from wear and tear. If the powered up drive is connected to the computer while powered up, any infection or user error that affects the data on the computer will also affect the data on the "backup" drive.

 

 

This is exactly why a copy on your PC is not a part of your backup sheme. You're just telling me things that is obvious. You're just talking around yourself right now.

 

A powered on backup is not redurancy. RAID is redurancy, or anything you use as a working system. This will also be your computer which you put as a backup strategy. Meaning i could just burn two DVDs + have a copy on my PC and it would be my backup.

 

If i have two NASes just as hot backups it's still a backup, because i don't fiddle on it at all times. Heck i don't even need to touch the systems.

 

Scanning for viruses or maleware also isn't always enough to be safe. You're just talking around yourself once again.

 

With your ramble here. You also forget that each backup is redurancy to prevent data loss. It's only a matter of subject.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

11 minutes ago, AbsoluteFool said:

This is exactly why a copy on your PC is not a part of your backup sheme. You're just telling me things that is obvious. You're just talking around yourself right now.

 

A powered on backup is not redurancy. RAID is redurancy, or anything you use as a working system. This will also be your computer which you put as a backup strategy. Meaning i could just burn two DVDs + have a copy on my PC and it would be my backup.

 

If i have two NASes just as hot backups it's still a backup, because i don't fiddle on it at all times. Heck i don't even need to touch the systems.

 

Scanning for viruses or maleware also isn't always enough to be safe. You're just talking around yourself once again.

 

With your ramble here. You also forget that each backup is redurancy to prevent data loss. It's only a matter of subject.

Sigh! You just aren't paying attention.

 

I never said a copy on your PC is part of a backup scheme. I said for data to be reasonably safe, it must exist in three, separate places, such as on the computer, an onsite backup and an offsite backup.

 

RAID is not the only form of redundancy. There are numerous forms of redundancy. If a drive is connected to the computer and powered up, it is part of the computer and is NOT a backup. Any duplicate data in the same place is also redundancy. Heck, the two onsite backup drives I have for each data drive in my computer are a form of redundancy since they are in the same data in the same place. Each one is a backup but the location is considered to be only one place.

 

Since you can't be bothered to pay attention, don't take my word for it; read these articles (or if it's too much trouble for you to read them all, read at last the first one):

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/346907/backups-vs.-redundancy-what’s-the-difference/

 

https://blog.storagecraft.com/5-reasons-raid-not-backup/

 

https://developcents.com/2014/05/14/data-redundancy-vs-backups/

[AbsoluteFool]

8 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Sigh! You just aren't paying attention.

 

I never said a copy on your PC is part of a backup scheme. I said for data to be reasonably safe, it must exist in three, separate places, such as on the computer, an onsite backup and an offsite backup.

 

RAID is not the only form of redundancy. There are numerous forms of redundancy. If a drive is connected to the computer and powered up, it is part of the computer and is NOT a backup. Any duplicate data in the same place is also redundancy. Heck, the two onsite backup drives I have for each data drive in my computer are a form of redundancy since they are in the same data in the same place. Each one is a backup but the location is considered to be only one place.

 

Since you can't be bothered to pay attention, don't take my word for it; read these articles (or if it's too much trouble for you to read them all, read at last the first one):

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/346907/backups-vs.-redundancy-what’s-the-difference/

 

https://blog.storagecraft.com/5-reasons-raid-not-backup/

 

https://developcents.com/2014/05/14/data-redundancy-vs-backups/

You're just saying once again that a backup is a redurancy plan which i've already told you...

[Lady Fitzgerald]

34 minutes ago, AbsoluteFool said:

You're just saying once again that a backup is a redurancy plan which i've already told you...

Where the hell did I did I say THAT?

[AbsoluteFool]

1 minute ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Where the hell did I did I say THAT?

Well, you didn't knowingly. Let me explain. If i backup my computer to three different harddrives that i keep powered down. If one drive breaks, i'm protected. If the second fails, i'm still protected, as long as the third is working of course. So i've basicly just made myself a redundancy out of three harddrives instead of a RAID array. This just makes an overflow that i can chose from if disaster strikes.

 

So do serval active systems in different locations, plus i can monitor then more often than most people can. That's all i'm saying. 

 

But i still stop there to not make it more confusing. However i will tell you that i don't disagree with anything you said. It's all good information and completely valid. But honestly, how good do you think home users are to spin up their backups to check if it's working? I bet if i told my dad to do that, or my brother for that matter he would throw it in a dawer for years without even thinking of what's on it. It's called human error.

 

My only meaning was that there are so many factors to say what the best is to do to close as possible "garante" that you do not suffer from data loss.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

@ Absolute Fool  Is English your first language?

[AbsoluteFool]

3 hours ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

@ Absolute Fool  Is English your first language?

No? I can't see how that is revelant.