Router speed confusion (433 or 100 Mbps??)

[SpectraXCD]

So I was browsing for a new router to buy and I'm basically almost 100% decided on the Netgear R6020, when I suddenly noticed something odd in their Tech Specs.

In the WiFi Performance section they say it's an AC750, meaning I'll get a 400+ Mbps capability for the 5Ghz spectrum, but then later on in the Number of Ethernet Ports section they say, and I quote, "Five (5) 10/100 Mbps Ethernet ports (1 WAN & 4 LAN)".

Does this section mean that I can get only get upto 100 Mbps input from my ISP or the router can output to my devices at 100Mbps through an ethernet cable?

My gut tells me it's the latter or else it would be false advertising from Netgear. But if that is so, doesn't it mean my wireless transfers will be faster than wired performance? Or am I completely off the mark?

 

Routers are probably where I'm least knowledgeable in when it comes to hardware shopping and I thought I had, at least, the important stuff figured out, but then I see this. Any help?

 

Side note: Do not suggest gigabit routers as the internet speeds I get from my ISP is less than 100 Mbps anyway, so I'm most prolly gonna stick to buying this one. I simply wish to know what these specs are telling me, plus any additional information any of you guys wish to share that I should know about routers.

[AngryBeaver]

6 minutes ago, SpectraXCD said:

So I was browsing for a new router to buy and I'm basically almost 100% decided on the Netgear R6020, when I suddenly noticed something odd in their Tech Specs.

In the WiFi Performance section they say it's an AC750, meaning I'll get a 400+ Mbps capability for the 5Ghz spectrum, but then later on in the Number of Ethernet Ports section they say, and I quote, "Five (5) 10/100 Mbps Ethernet ports (1 WAN & 4 LAN)".

Does this section mean that I can get only get upto 100 Mbps input from my ISP or the router can output to my devices at 100Mbps through an ethernet cable?

My gut tells me it's the latter or else it would be false advertising from Netgear. But if that is so, doesn't it mean my wireless transfers will be faster than wired performance? Or am I completely off the mark?

 

Routers are probably where I'm least knowledgeable in when it comes to hardware shopping and I thought I had, at least, the important stuff figured out, but then I see this. Any help?

 

Side note: Do not suggest gigabit routers as the internet speeds I get from my ISP is less than 100 Mbps anyway, so I'm most prolly gonna stick to buying this one. I simply wish to know what these specs are telling me, plus any additional information any of you guys wish to share that I should know about routers.

It means it is using t100 ports. So you will only get 100mbs from the internet side and also on the lan side. I would go with a different router tbh.

 

Something like the : 

NETGEAR - Nighthawk DST AC1900 Dual-Band Mesh Wi-Fi System

 

Or any of the r7000 products. They are slightly more expensive to around the same price, but offer faster wifi speeds, dual bands, and t1000 ports.

 

The one above also has a wireless range extender included that uses powerline technology. It is generally found for $80-$120 if you search around.

[brwainer]

For routers up to 450Mbps per wireless radio it is common to see only 100Mbps ports. This is because unless you are right next to the router with a device with a good antenna (a laptop, not a phone) you won’t get a wireless link speed that is anywhere near the maximum - and even if you were right on top of it I wouldn’t expect the link speed to be greater than 300Mbps. So for most situations the wireless speed available will be less than the 100Mbps ethernet anyway. The second reason is that wireless is half duplex, meaning that if the link speed is 200Mbps, the max bandwidth in either direction is 100Mbps (this isn’t exactly true, the wifi protocol doesn’t force the speed to be cut in half, but in practice its hard to get much more than half the link rate in a transfer). The third reason is that low end routers with 100Mbps ports normally have a weak CPU in them that can’t handle more than 100-200Mbps anyway. Now technically this only affects the internet traffic, not any of your LAN transfers (except that anything going between the wired and wireless will go though the CPU).

[Alex Atkin UK]

While it used to be true with 802.11n that you would get about half the link rate, with a good 802.11ac router/access point you should be getting about 3/4 at close range with no interference.

 

Like you said, if you were trying to push the maximum transfer in both directions at the same time it would halve that, but when is anyone going to do that?  Typically you will be doing things mostly in one direction.  This is why if you have something like a NAS its important to have it wired, so moving files to/from it with a WiFi connected device will remain as fast as possible.

Also bear in mind that if the router is claiming AC750, then its clearly only a 1x1 device.  This can be very limiting as to get 433Mbit link speed you'd need an 80Mhz channel width which typically gets you less range.  Most devices these days support 2x2 MIMO (typically marketed on routers as AC1200) giving you a link speed of 866Mbit with 80Mhz channel width, or 433Mbit with 40Mhz.  Rule of thumb, the smaller the channel width, the more reliable the signal will be at range and the easier it is to fit it in a clear channel between your neighbors WiFi signals.

 

I have seen a 40Mhz channel width go FASTER than an 80Mhz channel width, when the signal strength is weak.

[SpectraXCD]

Btw an additional note is that my current router is an Asus RT-N10E (an N150 router).

6 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

It is generally found for $80-$120 if you search around.

Nah, I'm basically unwilling to spend more than $45 on a router atm. The most I ever got was 40 Mbps, so I don't really need it. 3rd world country problems. ? Thanks tho.

But could you elaborate on what T100 ports are? Is the information that it allows 100 Mbps transfers the only thing to know about it or is there something more?

 

5 hours ago, brwainer said:

unless you are right next to the router with a device with a good antenna (a laptop, not a phone) you won’t get a wireless link speed that is anywhere near the maximum

My router sits atop my bookshelf, which rests on my desk where I use my laptop (and at other times, on my bed) so I'd say I get practically no signal degradation. The main issue is when I (my family members actually) get near the edge of my house. The main reason I want to shift to a new router is so that they can get an uninterrupted connection. My house is between 1200-1300 square feet (111.5-120.8 square meters) and my router is positioned slightly offset from the center towards the area where less people sit.  Adding to that, there's like 4 walls from it and the furthest point at most, plus some humidity.

None of my neighbors use any 5Ghz channel, so I was assuming they'd get a fairly uninterrupted connection even if they say the 5Ghz spectrum has less range by default.

 

4 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

then its clearly only a 1x1 device

 

4 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Most devices these days support 2x2 MIMO

Could you elaborate? Does it mean 1-to-1 connections versus.... idk, something? Or...?

 

4 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

you'd need an 80Mhz channel width which typically gets you less range

 

4 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

the easier it is to fit it in a clear channel between your neighbors WiFi

Again, none of my neighbors use 5 Ghz, so I'm safe in that regard.

[Alex Atkin UK]

MIMO is a way of transmitting more than one signal over the same channel.  So with 2x2 you can get up to twice the downstream and upstream speed, 3x3 three times, etc.  You can also find some clients that do things like 2x1 where they do double the downstream but only a single upstream, assuming you only really need the download speed boost.

As its effectively two or three signals instead of one, it can also boost reception and speed at range, because you have a better chance of picking up a good signal from at least one antenna.  Worth noting, while a 3x3 router NEEDs three antennas, not all routers with three antennas are actually 3x3 - some just use the extra ones to improve reception.

[AngryBeaver]

18 minutes ago, SpectraXCD said:

Nah, I'm basically unwilling to spend more than $45 on a router atm. 3rd world country problems. ? Thanks tho.

But could you elaborate on what T100 ports are? Is the information that it allows 100 Mbps transfers the only thing to know about it or is there something more?

T is the transfer speed. So t10 - 10mbps , t100 - 100mbps , t1000 - 1000mbps.

 

20 minutes ago, SpectraXCD said:

Could you elaborate? Does it mean 1-to-1 connections versus.... idk, something? Or...?

It basically refers to the amount of antennas and streams it can support on the up and down side. So wifi use to be a half duplex communication and communications were handled from one device to the other in a round robin style. Now with MiMO (multi in and multi out) it means there can be multiple connections going on at once and if you have a supported device it also means a single device can use more than one channel when available to boost speeds.

 

Now apparently I missed the portion on your original post about your ISP speeds. If you do not need more than 100mbps then it should be fine, except if you transfer anything between different machines then it is going to be painfully slow. Now I know you don't want to spend a lot, but there are good routers out there with t1000 ports and good wifi speeds for decent costs.

 

HooToo Wireless Router AC1200

 

For example is about $42 has ac 1200 technology, plenty of antennas to help with coverage and 1gb wan port and 4 gb lan ports. Also comes with a usb 3.0 port.

[SpectraXCD]

1 hour ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

MIMO is a way of transmitting more than one signal over the same channel.  So with 2x2 you can get up to twice the downstream and upstream speed, 3x3 three times, etc.  You can also find some clients that do things like 2x1 where they do double the downstream but only a single upstream, assuming you only really need the download speed boost.

As its effectively two or three signals instead of one, it can also boost reception and speed at range, because you have a better chance of picking up a good signal from at least one antenna.  Worth noting, while a 3x3 router NEEDs three antennas, not all routers with three antennas are actually 3x3 - some just use the extra ones to improve reception.

Right! I remember Linus talking about something like that in his Techquickie videos. Of course, I'm assuming the more the XxY gets, the more expensive it gets, so... would you know any routers that provide 2x1? I have little room for upgrades and I can't seem to find exactly where I can find these written out. The most I can find is the clear difference between SU-MIMO and MU-MIMO certifications.

 

1 hour ago, AngryBeaver said:

HooToo Wireless Router AC1200

Hmm, that does seem pretty good. But I'm afraid my country (or at least, some popular/trusted retailers) doesn't seem to sell HooToo routers. The most available are TP-Link ones, followed by (not ordered) Netgear, Asus and D-Link (of course there are a few others, but not many of them are available).

 

My alternatives were the Netgear R6120 and the R6220 routers. Of course I know that more is better in this sense, but attempting to keep the budget as low as possible and considering the things I've mentioned, which would you suggest among the three?

Oh, and no, I don't have the habit of transferring data across devices. I just keep large files stored on one external hard drive like the old fashioned way lol. 

[AngryBeaver]

The netgear R6220 would be my pick then.

 

It gives you the wireless AC you are looking for as well with gigabit ports. You might not think you need them, but speeds will improve not remain stagnate. So it is better to have more in the event your speed increases or you do need to take advantage of those higher speeds on your local network.

[Alex Atkin UK]

Personally I wouldn't recommended going for a budget router, its literally the most important part of your network.  But if you must, the R6220 does seem to have decent reviews.  Although I'm always concerned when I cant find a single review mentioning the NAT speed (how fast broadband it can handle).

[SpectraXCD]

Alright, R6220 it is, then.

 

With the router choosing out of the way, just a few quick questions to finish this:

>AC750 routers are made only to have T100 ports in both WAN and LAN because even if their 5Ghz band supports more than 400 Mbps, various other technical and environmental factors would decrease it to approximately 100 Mbps anyway. Am I wrong?

>Will AC1200 Gigabit routers allow me to transfer data among my home devices at (near) gigabit speeds through the LAN ports even if my ISP provides less than 100Mbps internet? Like, does my internet down/up transfer rate have any relation to my LAN speeds?

>Does antenna orientation/tilt matter in distorting/diverting the WiFi "sphere"?

[Alex Atkin UK]

Any router/switch with Gigabit ports will allow wired clients to transfer at up to around 950Mbit, depending on the quality of the clients network cards (Intel generally perform better than the cheap chipsets often used on PC motherboards).

 

AC750 routers only have 100Mbit ports because they are budget hardware, nothing more.  As such their CPUs are much weaker and unlikely to hit good AC speeds anyway.  I'd go so far as to say calling them AC is purely a marketing ploy to con people who do not know any better.

You need at least an AC1900 access point with a 3x3 MIMO client to get close to wired speeds over wireless.  Most clients only handle 2x2 MIMO at 80Mhz channel width which tops out around 650Mbit.  Though granted for generally moving files between HDDs that's probably pretty close to the average speed you will achieve even over Gigabit anyway.

The very top-end can do 160Mhz channel width (basically bonds two 80Mhz channels) and/or 4x4 MIMO, but practically no clients support that.

 

Antenna position does indeed make a difference, I have always found I get the best results keeping them fully vertical, but I mostly use it in the same room.  Once you are trying to reach into other rooms/floors, you may need to try different orientations.

The problem is that for MIMO to function you need to get the signal from multiple antennas at the same time, so if their orientations do not match you can lose MIMO functionality, yet it may be necessary to do so to improve reception in other parts of the house.  Its all a balancing act.

[nickmclinus]

I hate to revive an old thread but I got scammed by this too after I bought this piece of doodoo of a router. I'm on a budget with my flatmate and the sound of 750Mbps speeds meaning an average of 250 - 300Mbps in reality to our 1Gbps fibre connection would do us and our laptops, phones and smartTV well. I'm living in France where the telco provided hardware is outrageously poor and it's wifi is really poor and intermittent so a dedicated and yet cheap unit was really tempting, leaving the telco box just to distribute the internet connection and nothing else.

 

When I saw my internet speeds limited to 90Mbps during every SpeedTest I did I knew something was up - even our Telco box when it was serving Wifi would do an awful lot better than this (closer to 400Mbps when close to it). And then looking into the telco's status and seeing that no matter the port it was connected to on the NetGear it was maxing out at 100Mbps.

 

How is this justifiable in a time when 1Gbps LAN connections have been out for decades, cannot POSSIBLY be expensive and neither the CPU's that can handle them. I see this as a pure scam - advertise 750Mbps on the box and in reality you'll never see anything better than 100Mbps, NEVER because of the cable limit. Virtually no-one is using these to connect two or more clients on the same LAN at 750Mbps speeds (well maybe 3 people out of 10,000 and which is chopped in half anyway because of half-duplex in this two antenna case) so this is an entirely false number to advertise to the public. Most want to improve Wifi in their homes by running a box elsewhere or have a specialised unit do the job instead of their poor telco equipment.

 

Il'l be getting a full refund tomorrow.

[SansVarnic]

-= Topic Locked =-

 

@nickmclinus Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing, also I am sorry to hear of your predicament but please in the future create a new topic and reference the older topic. That would be the proper way to do this.

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