Bottlenecking

[LiiQo]

Hello all computer pros!!

I have been thinking of buying a new GPU so my PC does not bottleneck so much.

Right now I have a 4790k with watercool. 16gb and a GTX970.

My thought is that my GPU is holding me back, am I right? If so, what GPU should I invest in to get the least bottleneck as possible?

 

PS: I can and probably will OC my CPU

(Sorry if my english isn't all that great.

 

Kind regards

[3 Lions]

1 minute ago, LiiQo said:

what GPU should I invest in to get the least bottleneck as possible?

That depends on what you are willing to spend on one. 

[emosun]

4 minutes ago, LiiQo said:

My thought is that my GPU is holding me back, am I right?

check your gpu/cpu usage first

there's no bottleneck unless your application is fully loading one aspect of your machine or another.

[LiiQo]

So what you are saying is that I could get a 1080ti and not bottleneck with my CPU?

Let's not talk about how much I want to spend, just about which I should buy. 

[3 Lions]

Just now, LiiQo said:

Let's not talk about how much I want to spend, just about which I should buy. 

 A budget is needed, if you don't provide a budget then we cannot help you. 

[emosun]

1 minute ago, LiiQo said:

Let's not talk about how much I want to spend, just about which I should buy.

your budget factors in what you buy

if you are willing to buy a 10,000$ graphics card then we will recommend a better machine all together.

[Classic-master]

1 minute ago, LiiQo said:

So what you are saying is that I could get a 1080ti and not bottleneck with my CPU?

Let's not talk about how much I want to spend, just about which I should buy. 

not necessarily just load up a benchmark and look at usage and if one is maxed out and another is hovering at like 50% the 100% one is your bottleneck is what they are trying to say i belive

[LiiQo]

Just now, LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo said:

 A budget is needed, if you don't provide a budget then we cannot help you. 

Ok I do not understand why you need a budget. But anyway. let's say around 600 dollars.

[LiiQo]

1 minute ago, emosun said:

your budget factors in what you buy

if you are willing to buy a 10,000$ graphics card then we will recommend a better machine all together.

I do not want to upgarde my whole PC this year, mabye in a couple of years. Ty anyway

[LiiQo]

2 minutes ago, Classic-master said:

not necessarily just load up a benchmark and look at usage and if one is maxed out and another is hovering at like 50% the 100% one is your bottleneck is what they are trying to say i belive

Ty for the tip!

[Derrk]

if budgets not an issue, i will tell you to get 4 quadro gv100s for a nice 4-way SLI

[emosun]

5 minutes ago, emosun said:

there's no bottleneck unless your application is fully loading one aspect of your machine or another.

literally the first thing i typed. no point in helping if you're not reading. out

[Derrk]

2 minutes ago, emosun said:

literally the first thing i typed. no point in helping if you're not reading. out

Sounds like he just wants people to validate him upgrading his gpu

[LiiQo]

2 minutes ago, Derrk said:

Sounds like he just wants people to validate him upgrading his gpu

Yes, THANK YOU Derrk!

 

And sorry to everybody if I was not explicit enough.

[BarackOBatman]

20 minutes ago, LiiQo said:

I have been thinking of buying a new GPU so my PC does not bottleneck so much.

Right now I have a 4790k with watercool. 16gb and a GTX970.

My thought is that my GPU is holding me back, am I right? If so, what GPU should I invest in to get the least bottleneck as possible?

What resolution/refresh is your monitor?

 

You could probably buy as much GPU as you can afford, but if you are gaming on say 1920x1080 on a 60hz panel, something like a 1080ti would be a bit of a waste.

[Derrk]

2 minutes ago, LiiQo said:

Yes, THANK YOU Derrk!

 

And sorry to everybody if I was not explicit enough.

970 & 4790k are a nice combo, and shouldn't have any bottlenecks. If you want a better gpu, go for it. for $600 you could get a 1080 or maybe find a deal on a 1080ti somewhere. 

 

Be Warned: if you do go for a high end card, you cpu might start to bottleneck

[BarackOBatman]

1 minute ago, Derrk said:

970 & 4790k are a nice combo, and shouldn't have any bottlenecks. If you want a better gpu, go for it. for $600 you could get a 1080 or maybe find a deal on a 1080ti somewhere. 

 

Be Warned: if you do go for a high end card, you cpu might start to bottleneck

actually there is most like a GPU bottleneck in a 970 + 4790k combo

[LiiQo]

1 minute ago, BarackOBatman said:

What resolution/refresh is your monitor?

 

You could probably buy as much GPU as you can afford, but if you are gaming on say 1920x1080 on a 60hz panel, something like a 1080ti would be a bit of a waste.

Ahh I see. I have a 1080p 144hz monitor.

[Derrk]

2 minutes ago, BarackOBatman said:

actually there is most like a GPU bottleneck in a 970 + 4790k combo

Could be. I had a 4690k and 970 (both OC) back in the day and they ran like a dream.

 

Upgraded my gpu before the rest of my build and my cpu was heavily bottlenecked

[Darkseth]

20 minutes ago, LiiQo said:

Hello all computer pros!!

I have been thinking of buying a new GPU so my PC does not bottleneck so much.

Right now I have a 4790k with watercool. 16gb and a GTX970.

My thought is that my GPU is holding me back, am I right? If so, what GPU should I invest in to get the least bottleneck as possible?

 

PS: I can and probably will OC my CPU

(Sorry if my english isn't all that great.

 

Kind regards

I always say, stop thinking about bottlenecks this way. Your way of thinking is entirely wrong.

 

1. You can't get rid of a bottleneck. every Gaming PC ever will have a bottleneck somewhere. Otherwise you would have unlimited fps.

 

2. a GPU Bottleneck is a GOOD Bottleneck. This is the ideal state of every Gaming PC. you WANT this. Because only with a GPU Bottleneck, you get 100% of the Gaming Performance (of the GPU, ala fps) you paid for. If you don't have enough fps here, you can buy a faster GPU, or reduce Settings.

Just perfect, and easy to handle.

 

3. If your GPU is not the Bottleneck, it's somewhere else. Most likely, the CPU. This is a BAD Bottleneck, because this will show as stuttering, Framedrops etc. Aside from some settings like Object Distance, Object density etc, there is nothing you can do. If your CPU is too slow, and doesn't deliver enough fps (you want 60+, but your CPU can only manage 40 fps), your only way is to either be happy with 40 fps, or buy a faster CPU. Can't work around that with Settings there.

 

4. What bottlenecks and how much has NOTHING to do with your CPU + GPU combination. It depends 100% on your Software and the used Settings. You can have a CPU Bottleneck in 4k Ultra, with the right Game. Or you can have a GPU Bottleneck in 1080p Medium ^^

It depends.

 

 

Ultimately, here's a very good advice, EVERYONE should follow, who is scared of a Bottleneck:

 

Ask yourself one Question first: Does your CPU deliver enough fps for you, Yes or No?

For that to test, lower resolution to the lowest possible, turn Anti Aliasing off, and Ambient Occlusion too. That should be enough to hit a CPU Bottleneck (in these settings, the GPU can deliver hundreds of fps - but the CPU doesn't -> CPU Bottleneck).

 

Yes, it delivers enough fps: You don't have a Problem. If your GPU runs at 70% usage, but you already have 200 fps, who cares? Yes, the CPU is bottlenecking here, but you don't need more fps. That's way more than plenty. Bottleneck yes, but no problem at all.

 

No, the CPU Doesn't deliver enough fps: Then why care about the GPU? Your CPU is the problem. Doesn't matter what GPU you pair it with, you will never get enough fps.

Example, your CPU can only hit 40 fps. Your GPU could do 80 fps --> CPU Bottleneck. It holds the GPU back. Even if you get a much weaker GPU, that can only do 30 fps, your CPU is no longer the bottleneck. But that doesn't change the Fact, that you won't have enough fps^^

 

This hole thing can be so simple.

 

Just buy the GPU that fits your Budget, and offers the Performance you want. Then use it, and see how it runs, and if you're not satisfied, work around. GPU has way too much power for a game? increase settings, use DSR for a higher resolution - give teh GPU more to work. Transform "too much GPU performance" into Visual Eyecandy ;-)

 

For a 1080p 144 Hz Monitor, you want to go up to 144 fps (more than that doesn't make much sense, it won't get smoother than that). Even a 1080 ti could make sense here, as even that will NOT deliver 144+ fps in all games, if you use 1080p / Ultra settings. Probably not even on HIGH settings.

Or a cheaper 1080 will also work perfectly well.

 

If your CPU can hold 144 fps, is a different question. And then, back to above: Is that enough what it delivers. Would it be a no-go, if your CPU bottlenecks at 120 fps, isntead 144 fps? ;-)

[LiiQo]

5 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

I always say, stop thinking about bottlenecks this way. Your way of thinking is entirely wrong.

 

1. You can't get rid of a bottleneck. every Gaming PC ever will have a bottleneck somewhere. Otherwise you would have unlimited fps.

 

2. a GPU Bottleneck is a GOOD Bottleneck. This is the ideal state of every Gaming PC. you WANT this. Because only with a GPU Bottleneck, you get 100% of the Gaming Performance (of the GPU, ala fps) you paid for. If you don't have enough fps here, you can buy a faster GPU, or reduce Settings.

Just perfect, and easy to handle.

 

3. If your GPU is not the Bottleneck, it's somewhere else. Most likely, the CPU. This is a BAD Bottleneck, because this will show as stuttering, Framedrops etc. Aside from some settings like Object Distance, Object density etc, there is nothing you can do. If your CPU is too slow, and doesn't deliver enough fps (you want 60+, but your CPU can only manage 40 fps), your only way is to either be happy with 40 fps, or buy a faster CPU. Can't work around that with Settings there.

 

4. What bottlenecks and how much has NOTHING to do with your CPU + GPU combination. It depends 100% on your Software and the used Settings. You can have a CPU Bottleneck in 4k Ultra, with the right Game. Or you can have a GPU Bottleneck in 1080p Medium ^^

It depends.

 

 

Ultimately, here's a very good advice, EVERYONE should follow, who is scared of a Bottleneck:

 

Ask yourself one Question first: Does your CPU deliver enough fps for you, Yes or No?

For that to test, lower resolution to the lowest possible, turn Anti Aliasing off, and Ambient Occlusion too. That should be enough to hit a CPU Bottleneck (in these settings, the GPU can deliver hundreds of fps - but the CPU doesn't -> CPU Bottleneck).

 

Yes, it delivers enough fps: You don't have a Problem. If your GPU runs at 70% usage, but you already have 200 fps, who cares? Yes, the CPU is bottlenecking here, but you don't need more fps. That's way more than plenty. Bottleneck yes, but no problem at all.

 

No, the CPU Doesn't deliver enough fps: Then why care about the GPU? Your CPU is the problem. Doesn't matter what GPU you pair it with, you will never get enough fps.

Example, your CPU can only hit 40 fps. Your GPU could do 80 fps --> CPU Bottleneck. It holds the GPU back. Even if you get a much weaker GPU, that can only do 30 fps, your CPU is no longer the bottleneck. But that doesn't change the Fact, that you won't have enough fps^^

 

This hole thing can be so simple.

 

Just buy the GPU that fits your Budget, and offers the Performance you want. Then use it, and see how it runs, and if you're not satisfied, work around. GPU has way too much power for a game? increase settings, use DSR for a higher resolution - give teh GPU more to work. Transform "too much GPU performance" into Visual Eyecandy ;-)

 

For a 1080p 144 Hz Monitor, you want to go up to 144 fps (more than that doesn't make much sense, it won't get smoother than that). Even a 1080 ti could make sense here, as even that will NOT deliver 144+ fps in all games, if you use 1080p / Ultra settings. Probably not even on HIGH settings.

Or a cheaper 1080 will also work perfectly well.

 

If your CPU can hold 144 fps, is a different question. And then, back to above: Is that enough what it delivers. Would it be a no-go, if your CPU bottlenecks at 120 fps, isntead 144 fps? ;-)

Thank you for a awsome answer!! You jsut opened my eyes.

Is there a good free stresstest? Does this one work?: http://www.userbenchmark.com/Software

 

[BarackOBatman]

12 minutes ago, LiiQo said:

Ahh I see. I have a 1080p 144hz monitor.

Do you get desirable FPS in all your games at your preferred settings? If so, no need to upgrade.

If you want more FPS or to turn your graphics settings up, i'd upgrade (though you may or may not want to wait for nvidias next series.) If you buy current gen, id go for a GTX 1080 or 1070 ti or 1080 ti with that CPU. Your CPU is capable, though you will want to overclock if you want 120+ FPS

 

Whatever you do, do not get a GTX 1060 or lesser. Do not get an RX 580 or lesser. Theses are not upgrades.

I do not reccomend a GTX 1070 or RX Vega 56 because it is not much of an upgrade.

[LiiQo]

1 minute ago, BarackOBatman said:

Do you get desirable FPS in all your games at your preferred settings? If so, no need to upgrade.

If you want more FPS or to turn your graphics settings up, i'd upgrade (though you may or may not want to wait for nvidias next series.) If you buy current gen, id go for a GTX 1080 or 1070 ti or 1080 ti with that CPU. Your CPU is capable, though you will want to overclock if you want 120+ FPS

 

Whatever you do, do not get a GTX 1060 or lesser. Do not get an RX 580 or lesser. Theses are not upgrades.

I do not reccomend a GTX 1070 or RX Vega 56 because it is not much of an upgrade.

I do not think I get desirable FPS right now.

I think I will go for a 1080 something.

Another question, would it be worth buying another 970 and play with SLI?

[Darkseth]

Nope, because 2 GTX 970 will still only have 3.5gb Vram. And of course, all the Sli problems. Bad scaling (often only 20-50% more performance, instead 100%), microstuttering, many many games (many modern even) don't support Sli anymore, and support is going backwards - it's a dying technology.

 

Of course, except you get one for reaally cheap.

 

But a GTX 1070 for example would be by far better and superior to 2x 970s.

 

@ stresstest: Depends what kind of stresstest you want, for what? OC  stability? Firestrike hands down.

Overall gaming performance? Firestrike still, quite realistic, or the modern Superposition from Unigine.

 

Don't use userbenchmark so can't say much about that ^^

[LiiQo]

1 minute ago, Darkseth said:

Nope, because 2 GTX 970 will still only have 3.5gb Vram. And of course, all the Sli problems. Bad scaling (often only 20-50% more performance, instead 100%), microstuttering, many many games (many modern even) don't support Sli anymore, and support is going backwards - it's a dying technology.

 

Of course, except you get one for reaally cheap.

 

But a GTX 1070 for example would be by far better and superior to 2x 970s.

 

@ stresstest: Depends what kind of stresstest you want, for what? OC  stability? Firestrike hands down.

Overall gaming performance? Firestrike still, quite realistic, or the modern Superposition from Unigine.

 

Don't use userbenchmark so can't say much about that ^^

Big thank you!