Liquid Mercury cooled computer?

[goatshapedfish]

Hi I would like to preface this by informing all readers i am about to start 9th grade and have never had a chemistry class so if this question is very juvenile please excuse me  In the live stream where linus gets the 2018 macbook to thermal throttle one of the super chats was asking about this and his short answer was no because it was dangerous and impractical, but is it possible? According to Chegg.com, "The specific heat capacity of liquid mercury is 0.14J/g-K"  whereas water is 4.2J/g-K (I know 4.2 is approximate) as i have pretty much 0 knowledge of chemistry i turned to google and learned when that when liquid mercury comes into contact with another metal it creates an amalgam (I could be misunderstanding this but it seems like the metal absorbs the mercury correct me if im wrong) would this mean that you could not have the mercury come into contact with a conventional heat sink like the copper or other metal in a cpu block? or is there a way to stop that from occurring? as the shc of water is 30 times greater than the shc of liquid Hg would you see that drastic of a temperature difference assuming you could dissipate the heat from the mercury as efficiently as you could the water? thanks in advance to all responses like I said before I'm sorry if these are dumb questions -Nick

 

[Taf the Ghost]

You could. If you lived in the USA, you'd likely be looking at huge fines from the EPA. Mercury is highly toxic (lethal in not very large doses) and it leeches into the environment very easily. 

 

http://www.vce.org/mercury/methyl_mercury.pdf  He's a long form paper on the dangers of mercury. The amount needed for any cooling solution would be enough for any environmental protection agency to seize the property in most modern countries. So, this is far less about the chemical possibility of it, and far more about whether you would live through the process of making it. Then, if you lived, whether you'd spend years in prison.

[sazrocks]

Theoretically it's possible but it would be likely less efficient than water (as you noted, its heat capacity is terrible relatively.

5 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

You could. If you lived in the USA, you'd likely be looking at huge fines from the EPA. Mercury is highly toxic (lethal in not very large doses) and it leeches into the environment very easily. 

 

http://www.vce.org/mercury/methyl_mercury.pdf  He's a long form paper on the dangers of mercury. The amount needed for any cooling solution would be enough for any environmental protection agency to seize the property in most modern countries. So, this is far less about the chemical possibility of it, and far more about whether you would live through the process of making it. Then, if you lived, whether you'd spend years in prison.

Not sure why you're fearmongering. Metallic mercury (and inorganic forms of mercury) has a very difficult time diffusing through the skin, and you should (though of course I would never recommend doing this) be able to dip your hand in a pool of it just fine as long as you don't have any open wounds.

 

I love how you used a scary paper on methyl mercury, which is completely unrelated to the topic at hand. 

Quote

The amount needed for any cooling solution would be enough for any environmental protection agency to seize the property in most modern countries. So, this is far less about the chemical possibility of it, and far more about whether you would live through the process of making it. Then, if you lived, whether you'd spend years in prison.

This is all complete bull. Only a single state in the US prohibits people from playing with mercury. The only laws exist to prevent releases into the enviroment and to tax. Simply owning and responsibly managing even thousands of pounds of mercury is perfectly legal.

 

Have a watch of some videos:

Spoiler

 

 

[dizmo]

34 minutes ago, sazrocks said:

Theoretically it's possible but it would be likely less efficient than water (as you noted, its heat capacity is terrible relatively.

Not sure why you're fearmongering. Metallic mercury (and inorganic forms of mercury) has a very difficult time diffusing through the skin, and you should (though of course I would never recommend doing this) be able to dip your hand in a pool of it just fine as long as you don't have any open wounds.

 

I love how you used a scary paper on methyl mercury, which is completely unrelated to the topic at hand. 

This is all complete bull. Only a single state in the US prohibits people from playing with mercury. The only laws exist to prevent releases into the enviroment and to tax. Simply owning and responsibly managing even thousands of pounds of mercury is perfectly legal.

 

Have a watch of some videos:

  Hide contents

 

 

Except, liquid mercury vaporizes at room temperature, and the vapor is one of, if not the most dangerous form.
So yes, he's quite right to say that liquid mercury is dangerous.

Also, why on earth would you use YouTube videos as proof that something's safe? That's absolutely retarded. I can easily find videos of people doing the stupidest things imaginable.

[W-L]

1 hour ago, goatshapedfish said:

Hi I would like to preface this by informing all readers i am about to start 9th grade and have never had a chemistry class so if this question is very juvenile please excuse me  In the live stream where linus gets the 2018 macbook to thermal throttle one of the super chats was asking about this and his short answer was no because it was dangerous and impractical, but is it possible? According to Chegg.com, "The specific heat capacity of liquid mercury is 0.14J/g-K"  whereas water is 4.2J/g-K (I know 4.2 is approximate) as i have pretty much 0 knowledge of chemistry i turned to google and learned when that when liquid mercury comes into contact with another metal it creates an amalgam (I could be misunderstanding this but it seems like the metal absorbs the mercury correct me if im wrong) would this mean that you could not have the mercury come into contact with a conventional heat sink like the copper or other metal in a cpu block? or is there a way to stop that from occurring? as the shc of water is 30 times greater than the shc of liquid Hg would you see that drastic of a temperature difference assuming you could dissipate the heat from the mercury as efficiently as you could the water? thanks in advance to all responses like I said before I'm sorry if these are dumb questions -Nick

 

There was a GPU made by sapphire that had a gallium based cooling fluid so it's possible but the cost and effort for the small difference in performance doesn't really make it practical for mass production. 

http://www.frostytech.com/permalinkArch.cfm?NewsID=59728

[sazrocks]

56 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Except, liquid mercury vaporizes at room temperature, and the vapor is one of, if not the most dangerous form.

Ridiculously slowly.

It would take over an hour for a pool of mercury with a surface area of 17cm^2 to generate enough mercury vapor to contaminate a single cubic meter of air beyond osha regulations.

(evaporation rate at 20C is 55micrograms per hour or 0.000055g/h, using simple math and the osha recommendation of 0.1mg/m^3, we can calculate that it would take 17.85cm^2 of mercury about an hour to evaporate 1000µg of mercury)

(Ref: OSHA: https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/mercury/standards.html Mercury evaporation rate (UN study) (page 13): https://web.archive.org/web/20150910140040/http://www.chem.unep.ch/mercury/Sector-Specific-Information/Docs/ENV Prot 11 Edition 5.pdf)

 

Now of course, at higher temperatures the mercury will evaporate faster, but it gives you an idea of the rates we are talking about here.

Another problem is that the mercury in the "water cooling loop" isn't just sitting in the air. Its in the loop. It's contained. There would be very little mercury actually exposed to air that can evaporate.

As for spills, one could easily just open some windows to be safe and clean it up.

 

56 minutes ago, dizmo said:

and the vapor is one of, if not the most dangerous form.

While the vapor in concentrated form is very dangerous, Dimethlymercury disagrees with you about it being the most dangerous.

56 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Also, why on earth would you use YouTube videos as proof that something's safe? 

As extra evidence in case my text argument was insufficient. But to appease you, here are some scholarly articles:

"Elemental mercury from ingestion is poorly absorbed, at less than 0.01% of the dose, in the gastrointestinal tract. In the case of accidental swallowing of elemental mercury such as from breakage of a thermometer, systemic toxicity is rare and generally not expected [3]. However, a defect on the gastrointestinal tract may alter the mucosal barrier and allow for increased bioavailability. Dermal absorption of elemental mercury is also limited." Emphasis mine. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3514464/

"...less than 3% of a dose will be absorbed dermally" link

"ROUTES OF EXPOSURE: Elemental mercury is toxic primarily through inhalation of mercury vapors. It is only slowly absorbed through the skin, although it may cause skin and eye irritation. Elemental mercury droplets may be absorbed through eye contact. Ingestion is not an important route of acute exposure as almost no elemental mercury is absorbed through the gastrointestinal tract." Emphasis mine. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emergencyresponsecard_29750021.html

 

Youtube videos are also much more convenient for me to find and "cite". Do understand that CodysLab does understand what he's doing (watch his channel for a while and you'll agree), and does take precautions; he was trying to make a point.

 

56 minutes ago, dizmo said:

That's absolutely retarded.

Not necessary language.

56 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I can easily find videos of people doing the stupidest things imaginable.

You seem to have missed the video where Cody had his blood tested and there was no detectable rise in the mercury content of his blood. Here, I'll link it again for you:

 

EDIT: 

And beyond all of the technicalities of this, I never said this was a good idea or safe. Its is most certainly a stupid idea and dangerous. I simply took issue with a poster saying that OP would almost certainly die and that, barring that, he would be arrested and spend years in jail.

[-rascal-]

1 hour ago, W-L said:

There was a GPU made by sapphire that had a gallium based cooling fluid so it's possible but the cost and effort for the small difference in performance doesn't really make it practical for mass production. 

http://www.frostytech.com/permalinkArch.cfm?NewsID=59728

 

Sapphire Technologies, balls of steel since 2005.

[daimonie]

Hai. A few things.

"The low vapor pressure is very important if one is working in a high vacuum environment. Generally, mercury is not in the candidate list because of its very high vapor pressure (1.68x10−3 mmHg). A leakage in a mercury cooling loop would be serious even at room temperature, which becomes even worse at an elevated temperature. Such kind of metals could easily contaminate the whole system. And, if any mercury vapor were to reach any part of the human body, tremendous efforts should be made to immediately get rid of it and to tackle with the hazard thus caused. The use of mercury is forbidden in most accelerator environments. Unless specifically requested, mercury is not in recommendation."
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11708-007-0057-3

"

Quicksilver (liquid metallic mercury) is poorly absorbed by ingestion and skin contact. Its vapor is the most hazardous form.  ....In humans, approximately 80% of inhaled mercury vapor is absorbed via the respiratory tract, where it enters the circulatory system and is distributed throughout the body. ...Acute inhalation of high concentrations causes a wide variety of cognitive, personality, sensory, and motor disturbances. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning

 

 Two different numbers play a role in cooling/heating. The first is, as mentioned, the heat capacity. This is "How much energy per unit weight causes a unit of temperature difference". The second is the heat conductivity, or "how much energy can be dissipated per unit time per unit length per unit temperature difference". (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_conduction#Fourier's_law)

Quicksilver has a heat conductivity of 8.30 W/(m.K), copper of 400 W/(m.K), a heat pipe something 100 000 W/(m.K) and water has something like 0.6 W/(m.K). Quicksilver would thus be able to pass the heat on to the radiator or take it up from the blocks at least as well as water would. (It was important to check).

We can't guess easily at the temperature of the quicksilver itself. This is because heat conduction (see Fourier's law) is greater with a bigger temperature difference (delta T). So, even though the quicksilver might saturate at any temperature in between 30-90, the radiators would be able to dissipate it more quickly as well. 

@sazrocks Do keep in mind that things like mercury thermometers were phased out. https://www.epa.gov/mercury/phasing-out-mercury-thermometers-used-industrial-and-laboratory-settings

The stuff is apparently quite annoying: "Mercury is well documented as a toxic, environmentally-persistent substance."
 

 

[IamBored]

 

Turn down the volume for the start. Might cause ear damage.

So basically don't bother. Every thing pointed out in text by the kind people above in video form.

[zbiggie]

On 7/22/2018 at 9:42 AM, IamBored said:

 

Turn down the volume for the start. Might cause ear damage.

So basically don't bother. Every thing pointed out in text by the kind people above in video form.

Thank you I have been having this thought for a few days. And honestly was coming to this forum to ask exactly what this video answered, well almost exactly, I wanted Mercury. Either way close enough, and it doesn't create a big enough change to make it of value.