Idle CPU usage ~40% after update to 1803

[GoodBytes]

If you right-click on the Task Manager CPU graph you can show the Kernel time.

 

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9 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

The only issues that I've had on 1803 are BSODs and Freezes.

 

CPU Usage is all good .

 

6% on a Ryzen 1700 would easily be enough load to work out to more than the 25% I'm seeing on my N3350 tho

7 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

If you right-click on the Task Manager CPU graph you can show the Kernel time.

 

I know, I did that and as mentioned, that accounts for a majority of the usage.

[AlTech]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

6% on a Ryzen 1700 would easily be enough load to work out to more than the 25% I'm seeing on my N3350 tho

Well, the N3350 is based on Intel's Atom CPU cores and not Intel's big boy cores  so....

 

When i super briefly played with a Surface 3 (non pro) in 2016 and it's quad core Atom x5-Z blah blah CPU, the system didn't feel too responsible and it did seem like it was around 20-40% utilization just doing random stuff in the background.

 

Do you have Drive Encryption enabled? Or anything CPU intensive enabled?

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I know, I did that and as mentioned, that accounts for a majority of the usage.

I did notice that SYSTEM was reading from my drives for a while after my Startup programs loaded so I really don't know what's going on.

 

Sometimes randomly Windows Defender does an anti-virus scan. That might be the case on your laptop. Also, I'm assuming your laptop has either 2GB or 4GB RAM which means Windows would be responsible for swapping to the eMMC a lot and swapping to eMMC is really sluggishly slow and just erases the durability of the NAND cells.

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1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

Well, the N3350 is based on Intel's Atom CPU cores and not Intel's big boy cores  so....

 

When i super briefly played with a Surface 3 (non pro) in 2016 and it's quad core Atom x5-Z blah blah CPU, the system didn't feel too responsible and it did seem like it was around 20-40% utilization just doing random stuff in the background.

Well I know for a fact this used to idle at less than that because I remember seeing it in task manager.  Additionally, the idle time when on battery was significantly higher, and it didn't used to constantly feel hot to touch.  Not to mention the games that used to be playable at a steady 60 and now get 40s or less fps

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Do you have Drive Encryption enabled? Or anything CPU intensive enabled?

No

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I did notice that SYSTEM was reading from my drives for a while after my Startup programs loaded so I really don't know what's going on.

I've checked and there's no disk activity

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Sometimes randomly Windows Defender does an anti-virus scan. That might be the case on your laptop. Also, I'm assuming your laptop has either 2GB or 4GB RAM which means Windows would be responsible for swapping to the eMMC a lot and swapping to eMMC is really sluggishly slow and just erases the durability of the NAND cells.

It's 4 GB and it definitely does swap when I load it up but that is not an issue in these situations.  It's able to idle with plenty of room free

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I'm getting very close to just reinstalling so if anyone has any ideas now's the time.  If this works, I guess it'll be worth the nuisance, and if it doesn't, then idk what I'll do.  That'll mean I need a different OS, or at least a different version, but I've considered my options (Linux, 7, older version of 10) and none of those are really any more viable for one reason or another.

[GoodBytes]

Oh something came to mind. Do you happen to have SMBv1 enabled? Check for that. SMBv1 doesn't play nice anymore as MS phasing it out. Already, if it's not used any a program or yourself, it will auto disable itself after 15 days, and Windows defenders goes crazy on it, scanning everything. Probably that is what is eating your CPU.

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41 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

You can download LatencyMon from http://www.resplendence.com/downloads. Just install, run, click play to start monitoring, then go to Drivers and look at DPC/ISR count and execution time to find the culprit.

 

7 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Oh something came to mind. Do you happen to have SMBv1 enabled? Check for that. SMBv1 doesn't play nice anymore as MS phasing it out. Already, if it's not used any a program or yourself, it will auto disable itself after 15 days, and Windows defenders goes crazy on it, scanning everything. Probably that is what is eating your CPU.

 

I decided to just go ahead with the reinstall, but SMBv1 was turned off so that probably wasn't it.  I also had Bitdefender and not Windows Defender.

 

I'll keep that latency program in mind in case things are still not fixed, but I pray I don't need it.

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Good news and bad news.  The good news is the CPU issue is fixed.  It idles properly again now, after the reinstall and letting everything settle.  RAM usage is also reduced, which is nice considering I don't have much to spare.

 

The bad news is I was expecting this to correct the performance problem I was having with my games, but it has not.  They are still running poorly.  Better than before, but not what they should be.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Good news and bad news.  The good news is the CPU issue is fixed.  It idles properly again now, after the reinstall and letting everything settle.  RAM usage is also reduced, which is nice considering I don't have much to spare.

 

The bad news is I was expecting this to correct the performance problem I was having with my games, but it has not.  They are still running poorly.  Better than before, but not what they should be.

Is game DVR disable? Did you try playing with enabling and disabling GameMode for each game?

For the affected games, you can try and disable "full screen optimization" in the executable properties > Compatibility tab.

 

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1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Is game DVR disable?

 

As far as I know, yes.  Does this look right?

 

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Did you try playing with enabling and disabling GameMode for each game?

No but I'll try that next

It's been off this whole time but I tried it on and it's not any better.  It might be worse actually... hard to tell.  I tested enough to know it wasn't an improvement and didn't feel like going further than that.

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For the affected games, you can try and disable "full screen optimization" in the executable properties > Compatibility tab.

I'll try that next.

Tried that but no change

 

After playing around some more, I would describe the experience as if someone behind the scenes had a framerate limiter control and they were just sliding it up and down randomly to troll me.  There'll be moments when it's holding 60, then suddenly it'll drop to the 40s or even 30, then go back up, and it'll happen in relatively demanding areas, and in easy to draw areas.  Neither the CPU nor GPU are maxed out, and when the framerate is low their usage is especially low so it's not like it's dropping because it can't handle it, it's like it's rendering less because it feels it doesn't need to try harder.  I hope this description can give you or anyone else some ideas.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Ryan_Vickers

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49 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

That sounds like power profile (windows/control panel) and power saving (win10/settings) settings issue.

 

And after you said that, just remembered that someone complained about the same thing here on the forum a week or two ago. I've recommended to create a high-performance plan, but the OP didn't answered. 

 

 

I generally just make one plan designed to maximize battery life on battery and performance when plugged in, and I've done so, and tbh I don't really notice any difference when on battery (this also was true before as well).  I'm not sure what else I can really turn up but I'll have another look.

 

edit: there really isn't anything.  Best I could do was turn off PCIe link power savings which seemed to do nothing, and crank the slider to "best performance" in the popup you get clicking on the battery icon, which seems to just prevent the CPU from downclocking which would only waste power

Edited June 9, 2018 by Ryan_Vickers

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I just tried it again, no changes, just doing the same thing and expecting a different result, and sure enough, it ran exactly as expected for a few minutes, proving that it can still do it lol  but then it degraded back to the behaviour I've described in this thread sure would like to figure out why that happens and stop it.

 

And before someone says it (actually I'm surprised no one has yet since it seems so obvious) it's not thermal throttling, I've proven this through testing.  I ran the AIDA64 CPU + GPU stress test and observed (in addition to the fact it says there is no throttling) that after a brief time (~10s or less) with everything at full speed, it locks into its "full power" config and consumes a steady 9 W with GPU and CPU clocks that do not fluctuate no matter how long the test is run for.  It tends to maintain about 60 C doing this.  I then held the laptop over a large fan and ran the test again, and it behaved the same way, except it was sitting around 50 C.  If it was throttling due to a 60 C limit, I would have observed higher clocks at 60 C, not the same clocks at a lower temp.  Additionally this problem is random - it will be running fine for a bit, then get bad, and then later momentarily go back to good again, or sometimes, it starts out bad immediately when it hasn't even had time to warm up yet.  If it was due to temps you would expect it to start good, then get and stay bad, particularly in a demanding area.  It also wouldn't have taken several minutes to heat up - this will do it in seconds, and then hold that level.

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Just for fun I decided to try running the game on Linux because at this point I really need a sanity check, and the results were absolutely astounding.  Not only did it hold 60 fps totally reliably for the entire test of many minutes, but it could do it in places Windows never has, and the machine wasn't even heating up as much.  So much for Windows being the best gaming platform... this is the Linux I remember.  The question though is can Windows be fixed to match that performance, or do I need to consider switching?

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1 minute ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

It's probably a driver or another stupid housekeeping service from MSFT. If the game is compatible, I would go back to Windows 7 or 8.1. =/

The game would be compatible but I don't think the computer is.  The manufacturer only has drivers for 10

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8 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Then how about rolling back to the previous version and disable Windows update? I think you can disable it with gpedit, or at least auto update and part of the telemetry crap.

I can't roll back, I'd have to reinstall again and I'm not sure where I'd find a 1709 ISO... Microsoft seems to only host the latest one.  Plus I'm not sure that's really a viable solution; I still want to get updates

 

8 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

EDIT: Reminded of something: did you disable Windows Defender Real-time protection?

I had that thought as well and tried it but didn't seem to make a difference.  It doesn't seem like there's a conflicting load on the system, it's like it's just being told to not work as hard.

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2 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Then how about rolling back to the previous version and disable Windows update? I think you can disable it with gpedit, or at least auto update and part of the telemetry crap

I found an ISO on here that I assume to be legit and safe because if you follow through to the actual download, you'll see that they're not hosting these files themselves but in fact pulling them directly from microsoft.com.  With this in hand, and frustration maxed out with no other apparent solution, I'm going to do exactly what you said.  I don't like it, but it's the only option available to me.

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So I installed 1709 and the game runs perfectly again, I would say on par with what I got on Linux.  However, I will have to reinstall yet again because in the mean time, the OS has completely destroyed itself somehow.  There's no command prompt option when I right-click on the Start button, Candy Crush and the other ads reinstall themselves every time I reboot, it seems to think it's Windows S, even though it's actually Pro, but only sometimes, and other insane and inexplicable nonsense.

 

I've reinstalled again and through strategic application and removal of wifi I believe I've managed to get it setup correctly, or at least on the path to that.  We shall see in time.

I don't fucking believe it... It's running like crap again.  It must be due to some other patch that was sent out to all versions of Windows at around the same time as the 1803 update... or maybe something else I haven't thought of!?

Edited June 10, 2018 by Ryan_Vickers

[Delicieuxz]

This is why I say that each Windows 10 installation has an updates shelf-life that expires beyond the original installation's version number. 1709 is good for updates so long as it remains 1709. After updates for 1709 stop, it's either time to completely disable Windows Update, or to perform a full clean installation.

 

Heck, Windows 10 sometimes doesn't last for even a since major version number. My 1703 installation just randomly did this one day upon booting up:

 

 

And nothing has fixed it. Well, actually, using Windows 7 instead of Windows 10 has fixed that, and a ton of other Windows 10 issues.

[GoodBytes]

8 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

So I installed 1709 and the game runs perfectly again, I would say on par with what I got on Linux.  However, I will have to reinstall yet again because in the mean time, the OS has completely destroyed itself somehow.  There's no command prompt option when I right-click on the Start button, Candy Crush and the other ads reinstall themselves every time I reboot, it seems to think it's Windows S, even though it's actually Pro, but only sometimes, and other insane and inexplicable nonsense.

It is because the apps are in the middle of updating while you uninstall them. So the Store goes "Oh I am missing files!,Let me get it again", and the apps are re-installed.

First let Windows do its thing, Once everything is done updating, now uninstall the apps. Or be quick about it, before the Store update kicks in.

 

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I don't fucking believe it... It's running like crap again.  It must be due to some other patch that was sent out to all versions of Windows at around the same time as the 1803 update... or maybe something else I haven't thought of!?

All I can think about is those CPU security patches (Specter and Meltdown), but the drop in performance should not be that much, and why it doesn't like your PC specifically. If you want to cross your fingers, you can try the Insider Program, but I doubt that it will fix it. I have not read any performance boost.

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5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

It is because the apps are in the middle of updating while you uninstall them. So the Store goes "Oh I am missing files!,Let me get it again", and the apps are re-installed.

First let Windows do its thing, Once everything is done updating, now uninstall the apps. Or be quick about it, before the Store update kicks in.

I've never had this happen before and have never given it any sort of special treatment in terms of waiting

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

All I can think about is those CPU security patches (Specter and Meltdown), but the drop in performance should not be that much, and why it doesn't like your PC specifically. If you want to cross your fingers, you can try the Insider Program, but I doubt that it will fix it. I have not read any performance boost.

That crossed my mind as well so I got InSpectre and it said I was protected against Meltdown but not Spectre, so I tried turning that off and it did seem slightly better but it was still bad.

[GoodBytes]

8 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I've never had this happen before and have never given it any sort of special treatment in terms of waiting

I don't recall 1 system that I cleaned installed, and got a bit too excited and removed a Store app before it was done. Now I wait, either way, it gives a chance to get the indexing done and all that, so that the system is fast and responsive to start work. The bug is that the Store doesn't get notified that the app was uninstalled in the middle of the update, for it to cancel it.

 

Can you show us the Task Manager detail tab sorted by CPU usage.

And can you show use a screenshot of the Task Manager Performance graph of the CPU, with kernel time.

 

By the way, I assume you have your chipset driver installed and SATA controller (if you use something else beside the chipset controller that is built-in). I know you upgraded Windows 10, and I know it used to work fine before the update. But maybe it got uninstalled, or partially, and not working right.

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29 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Can you show us the Task Manager detail tab sorted by CPU usage.

And can you show use a screenshot of the Task Manager Performance graph of the CPU, with kernel time.

I can do that but it's nothing interesting.  Ever since the very first reinstall, CPU usage has been back to normal.  The game lag isn't caused by a conflicting load on the system as far as I can tell.

 

Edit: here:

Spoiler

 

Normally idle process is like ~95%, I just caught it on a spike

 

 

Same here... all those low bits are like 3 - 4% at <1 GHz.

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By the way, I assume you have your chipset driver installed and SATA controller (if you use something else beside the chipset controller that is built-in). I know you upgraded Windows 10, and I know it used to work fine before the update. But maybe it got uninstalled, or partially, and not working right.

I let it do all the driver installs automatically (with the exception of the botched 1709 I mentioned where I attempted to not have updates - for that I did them manually) but I have checked in device manager to make sure they're the same version.  Because I really don't have any other leads at the moment though, I'll try doing them all manually anyway.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Ryan_Vickers

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41 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I let it do all the driver installs automatically (with the exception of the botched 1709 I mentioned where I attempted to not have updates - for that I did them manually) but I have checked in device manager to make sure they're the same version.  Because I really don't have any other leads at the moment though, I'll try doing them all manually anyway.

I don't believe it... this seems to be it.  I don't even know how to feel at this point.  All this time it was so simple.  On the one hand, I feel stupid because all I had to do was install all the drivers from the website, but on the other, I didn't do that the first time - it was already working.  That means Windows replaced one of the ones it had grabbed automatically that was working with one that was not working, from where and for what reason I can't fathom.

 

omg I'm losing my mind over this... nvm, it still isn't running right

Edited June 10, 2018 by Ryan_Vickers

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1 hour ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Did you run procmon to log/check registry access and file manipulations being made? Sometimes it can indicate who is doing what. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/procmon

omg there's so much stuff happening constantly The issue is I don't have a baseline for what should be normal, expected behaviour

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Just now, gabrielcarvfer said:

If you close everything and let only Procmon running, it should be around 100~400 events per second (total, not shown). If it's more than that, look for the program that makes most requests. If it's not showing up, you can remove some filters to show more.

I noticed a process with some suspicious looking registry key names and found it in task manager, and found its description equally suspicious, and killed it, and so far, everything is going well...  This thread has made a liar out of me too many times already so forgive my reluctance to call it, but it's looking great so far.