PSU Head room

[ivanteng880]

Hi, I'm going to build a pc this fall, and I want to overclock both the CPU and the GPU how much headroom should I leave for overclocking?

 

Specs:

Ryzen 5 1600X

Gtx 1170 ( when it comes out, assuming that it will use the same amount of power as a Gtx 1080 for now)

2x8 GB Trident Z RGB RAM

B350-F Gaming motherboard 

Cooler master Master liquid 240

Corsair Strafe Keyboard Red

Corsair M65 Pro RGB mouse 

USB receiver for G933 wireless headset

1 Crucial 250 GB SSD

1 Seagate 7200 RPM 1 TB HDD

2 200mm intake Fan RGB                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       1 1 120mm exhaust fan black 

 

Thinking about getting a Be Quiet Straight Power 11 80+ Gold PSU, but what wattage should I get? PC part picker says 450W estimated wattage but extream PSU calcaulater says 550W? which one should I trust?

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

We don't know what the power draw of the 11xx series cards is going to be ; one would assume lower than Pascal. I'd get a 650w but a 550W would be fine just not quite as much headroom.

[ivanteng880]

3 minutes ago, orbitalbuzzsaw said:

We don't know what the power draw of the 11xx series cards is going to be ; one would assume lower than Pascal. I'd get a 650w but a 550W would be fine just not quite as much headroom.

Is the 650W enough if I’m going to overclock both the GPU and the CPU? @orbitalbuzzsaw

[Mira Yurizaki]

NVIDIA is unlikely to increase the power draw significantly of the new cards, especially not after the GTX 1080 can get by with a single 8-pin PCIe connector.

 

Also PSU calculators assume the worse case scenario and grossly overestimate the actual need. You're very likely drawing half of what it estimates considering my system sits around 230W when playing a game. Power requirements on video card boxes also grossly overestimate the actual need.

 

(Then again, since 50% utilization is ideal for efficiency, maybe it's not so much grossly over-estimating)

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

Just now, ivanteng880 said:

Is the 650W enough if I’m going to overclock both the GPU and the CPU? @orbitalbuzzsaw

Yes. So is the 550w, just the 650 will have more headroom and isn't that much more expensive.

 

The Seasonic Focus Plus Gold, G , EVGA G2, G3, EVGA GQ, Corsair RMx series are PSUs to look into. 550W or 650W of any of these would be great options for your rig.

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

4 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

NVIDIA is unlikely to increase the power draw significantly of the new cards, especially not after the GTX 1080 can get by with a single 8-pin PCIe connector.

 

Also PSU calculators assume the worse case scenario and grossly overestimate the actual need. You're very likely drawing half of what it estimates considering my system sits around 230W when playing a game. Power requirements on video card boxes also grossly overestimate the actual need.

 

(Then again, since 50% utilization is ideal for efficiency, maybe it's not so much grossly over-estimating)

That hardware can draw quite a bit of power with heavy OCs, to the tune of 400 watts < 550W

[Mira Yurizaki]

Just now, orbitalbuzzsaw said:

That hardware can draw quite a bit of power with heavy OCs, to the tune of 400 watts.

Looking at Tom's Hardware's review on the 1080 FE, I do see they register a maximum power draw of 392W, but this is likely a spike which isn't a problem. The average power over time they measured is about 206W.

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

1 minute ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Looking at Tom's Hardware's review on the 1080 FE, I do see they register a maximum power draw of 392W, but this is likely a spike which isn't a problem. The average power over time they measured is about 206W.

206w + 120w (OC'd Ryzen) + 100w for mobo, drives, etc = 426W

[ivanteng880]

13 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

NVIDIA is unlikely to increase the power draw significantly of the new cards, especially not after the GTX 1080 can get by with a single 8-pin PCIe connector.

 

Also PSU calculators assume the worse case scenario and grossly overestimate the actual need. You're very likely drawing half of what it estimates considering my system sits around 230W when playing a game. Power requirements on video card boxes also grossly overestimate the actual need.

 

(Then again, since 50% utilization is ideal for efficiency, maybe it's not so much grossly over-estimating)

So if I get a 650W Be Quiet Straight Power 11 80+ Gold will be more than enough for my rig, even with overclocking, right? On the OuterVision PSU Calculator with a 1600X overclocked to 4Ghz and the GPU core clock to  2.6 Ghz Ghz it showed my max wattage is 641W.                                                                                                                             Another question, on the outervision PSU calculater it says that my memory clock can only go up to 3.5Ghz while on the asus strix gtx 1080 it shows an clock speed of 10010 MHz? why?

@M.Yurizaki

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

Just now, ivanteng880 said:

So if I get a 650W Be Quiet Straight Power 11 80+ Gold will be more than enough for my rig, even with overclocking, right? On the OuterVision PSU Calculator with a 1600X overclocked to 4Ghz and the GPU core clock to  2.6 Ghz Ghz it showed my max wattage is 641W.                                                                                                                             Another question, on the outervision PSU calculater it says that my memory clock can only go up to 3.5Ghz while on the asus strix gtx 1080 it shows an clock speed of 10010 MHz? why?

@M.Yurizaki

that will be fine

[Mira Yurizaki]

17 minutes ago, orbitalbuzzsaw said:

206w + 120w (OC'd Ryzen) + 100w for mobo, drives, etc = 426W

So looking at Tom's Hardware again (I look at them because they actually isolate the power draws rather than do system power consumption), the worst they got was 88W on a Prime95 torture test. To get to 120W would require at least a 25%-40% overclock for clockspeed alone (though I'm sure bumping the voltage up will lower that requirement a bit). And it'll only still be applicable to running Prime95, which is an unrealistic test. You almost never have condition similar to Prime95 (and by extension FurMark) unless you deliberately invoke it, or you have a power virus.

 

100W for a motherboard is also too high. The only thing that's high power on a motherboard is the chipset, and those are usually less than 20W at worst. EDIT: To put in perspective, the TDP of the Z370 chipset is 6W.

 

Drives sip power. The SSD is under 5W and the hard drive is likely under 10W.

 

In any case, in my observations with high end hardware, I have not seen power consumption trip over 250W on average after accounting for efficiency with a single card system. I even ran a high-end system with a 450W power supply without a problem.

 

16 minutes ago, ivanteng880 said:

So if I get a 650W Be Quiet Straight Power 11 80+ Gold will be more than enough for my rig, even with overclocking, right? On the OuterVision PSU Calculator with a 1600X overclocked to 4Ghz and the GPU core clock to  2.6 Ghz Ghz it showed my max wattage is 641W. 

Yes, it's more than enough. And again, PSU calculator sites grossly overestimate. OuterVision's for example sets the load state of the system to 90% by default. This means everything is at 90%. But barring that, I tried to verify their claims one time by inputting my system hardware while running the hardest practical workload I could and what I read from my meter wasn't even at 60% (the lowest setting I believe) of what OuterVision estimated. So I think that website is bunk.

 

Quote

 Another question, on the outervision PSU calculater it says that my memory clock can only go up to 3.5Ghz while on the asus strix gtx 1080 it shows an clock speed of 10010 MHz? why?

It's likely talking about the actual clock speed of the memory, rather than the effective clock speed. However, as another knock on them, the actual clock speed for these cards runs at about 1.2GHz to 1.3GHz on the FE version. To get the 10,000 MHz or whatever, it's multiplied by 8 (because GDDR5X can do a transfer 8 times per clock cycle, think of it like DDR RAM but on steroids).

 

So basically I have no idea where they came up with 3.5GHz.

Edited May 23, 2018 by M.Yurizaki

[ivanteng880]

25 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

So looking at Tom's Hardware again (I look at them because they actually isolate the power draws rather than do system power consumption), the worst they got was 88W on a Prime95 torture test. To get to 120W would require at least a 25%-40% overclock for clockspeed alone (though I'm sure bumping the voltage up will lower that requirement a bit). And it'll only still be applicable to running Prime95, which is an unrealistic test. You almost never have condition similar to Prime95 (and by extension FurMark) unless you deliberately invoke it, or you have a power virus.

 

100W for a motherboard is also too high. The only thing that's high power on a motherboard is the chipset, and those are usually less than 20W at worst. EDIT: To put in perspective, the TDP of the Z370 chipset is 6W.

 

Drives sip power. The SSD is under 5W and the hard drive is likely under 10W.

 

In any case, in my observations with high end hardware, I have not seen power consumption trip over 250W on average after accounting for efficiency with a single card system. I even ran a high-end system with a 450W power supply without a problem.

 

Yes, it's more than enough. And again, PSU calculator sites grossly overestimate. OuterVision's for example sets the load state of the system to 90% by default. This means everything is at 90%. But barring that, I tried to verify their claims one time by inputting my system hardware while running the hardest practical workload I could and what I read from my meter wasn't even at 60% (the lowest setting I believe) of what OuterVision estimated. So I think that website is bunk.

 

It's likely talking about the actual clock speed of the memory, rather than the effective clock speed. However, as another knock on them, the actual clock speed for these cards runs at about 1.2GHz to 1.3GHz on the FE version. To get the 10,000 MHz or whatever, it's multiplied by 8 (because GDDR5X can do a transfer 8 times per clock cycle, think of it like DDR RAM but on steroids).

 

So basically I have no idea where they came up with 3.5GHz.

But doesn't GDRR stand for Graphic double data rate? shouldn't I time that by 2 ?

[Mira Yurizaki]

30 minutes ago, ivanteng880 said:

But doesn't GDRR stand for Graphic double data rate? shouldn't I time that by 2 ?

In some sense, it's still double data rate, but through a combination of internal clocks, the effective clock rate is multiplied further. For instance, GDDR5 has a command clock (CK) that operates at the base frequency, but it has another clock (WCK) for data reads and writes that operates at double that rate. As in, it's double the frequency and not just acting on the clock edges that DDR does. GDDR5X added a quad data rate mode, so now the effective speed is four times that of CK. And since data transfers still happen on every edge of the clock, you have the 8 times transfer rate.

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, orbitalbuzzsaw said:

206w + 120w (OC'd Ryzen) + 100w for mobo, drives, etc = 426W

Why don't you listen to what people say?!
We told you a couple of dozen times, that 100W for "mobo, drives etc" is Bullshit. 25W is more likely, 50W with a couple of 3,5" Drives.

 

1 hour ago, ivanteng880 said:

So if I get a 650W Be Quiet Straight Power 11 80+ Gold

Why would you get the worst of the worst of the series??

The 450 is good, 550W is OK, 650W is shit.

750W again is OK.

Just look at the modular PCB! 

That alone tells you.

 

 

And you'd be fine with 550W anyway. If you are in Germany, everyone will tell you to get the 550W at most.

And if you get a powermeter you'll see something between 200-300W. If you are unlucky maybe 350W...

 

 

1 hour ago, ivanteng880 said:

On the OuterVision PSU Calculator with a 1600X overclocked to 4Ghz and the GPU core clock to  2.6 Ghz Ghz it showed my max wattage is 641W.       

That one is the worst of the worst.

And if you do it that way, you'd burn your hardware and it won't last a year.

So why would you do that?

 

ALso you can expect the next series to consume less than the one we have right now. 

Because there isn't any competition, because people only buy nVidia, even if there is a decent alternative. They can demand more money for the same chip.

 

Today you pay up to 500€ for the x4 Chip. A couple of years ago you'd pay half of that!

So expect the x6 Chip to get that expensive and the x4 chip to go up to 750-1000€ in the next couple of years...

 

1 hour ago, ivanteng880 said:

Another question, on the outervision PSU calculater it says that my memory clock can only go up to 3.5Ghz while on the asus strix gtx 1080 it shows an clock speed of 10010 MHz? why?

You are looking at the wrong data.

Look at what people (like Tomshardware) measured, not what some thing on the Internet is guessing.

[STRMfrmXMN]

We don't know the power draw of the 11 series cards yet. Pascal uses slightly more power than Maxwell, so perhaps it'll be more, might be less, might be the same.

 

I'd still wager a bet that you could run anything below the **80 Ti series comfortably on a 450W unit with OC. 550W should be plenty.

[awesomegamer919]

On 5/23/2018 at 12:22 PM, orbitalbuzzsaw said:

206w + 120w (OC'd Ryzen) + 100w for mobo, drives, etc = 426W

Under gaming loads CPUs use fuckall power, an 8700K (up to 200w under some loads!) draws like 70-80w, so a 1080 (216w) + Ryzen (70-80w worst case scenario, it won't actually be that high), + ~50w for the rest of the system (again, it won't draw that much, but it's a ballpark) and you are still only at ~350w...