A quest for the fabled low profile mechanical keyboard

[Mainfold]

Ok, I'm gonna start this off simple. 

For a while I've been looking for a mechanical keyboard, and I'd prefer it to be low profile and ergonomic.. and not suck.

 

After having used the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard (K740) for a while, and getting sucked in to the awesome feeling of how good FPS-gaming feels on a low profile keyboard, but seeking a mechanical keyboard (aka hating the 3-button max), I've come to the conclusion that a low profile mechanical keyboard would be the best of both worlds. 

 

Problem is, I've searched quite a lot, and have still not found anything that can match the ergonomics and "flat-ness" of the Logitech Illuminated.. without being even worse for gaming and general use.

I even have a Razer Arctosa, which is ok with it's "anti-ghosting cluster".. but I still find myself getting to a key-max at times.

 

So, if anyone knows of any form of low profile cherry-switch type of keyboards, or anything of the sort (even just low profile buttons for regular mechanical keyboards), feel free to post about it.

 

I've seen these switches, but they seem to only be on keyboards that are borderline useless for gaming.

 

 

For the sake of data-points, just gonna set the primary use as: gaming.

 

 

 

 

 

PS: Something like the Razer DeathStalker, that has those disgusting netbook-type of buttons, no thanks. And these oddities from Steelseries look just plain weird.

[UselessBread]

There isn't really an awful lot of mechanical low profile keyboards because of the rather big nature of MX Switches.

The only low profile Mech I know is the Cherry G84, which isn't really the best. But it is small!

Kind of does break every standard keylayout ever, and the ML Switches aren't the nicest to type on.

Oh and it isn't ergonomical.

[Stav Kats]

I did a review on the Noppoo Choc Mini keyboard. You may like it. Here is the link.

Hope it helped!

[Mainfold]

There isn't really an awful lot of mechanical low profile keyboards because of the rather big nature of MX Switches.

The only low profile Mech I know is the Cherry G84, which isn't really the best. But it is small!

Kind of does break every standard keylayout ever, and the ML Switches aren't the nicest to type on.

Oh and it isn't ergonomical.

 

 

I did a review on the Noppoo Choc Mini keyboard. You may like it. Here is the link.

Hope it helped!

 

 

sooooo tiny.. wonder if it would be possible to get a "regular" mechanical keyboard, and modify the buttons to sit lower..

[Shikarikato]

 

.

 

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=655

Cherry MX 3.0

Only comes in reds. ):

[TheProfosist]

You wont find a gaming keyboard with those but thatd alright since there isnt much gaming about gaming keyboards uaually and there is there are few that actually use it. Cherry has a few keyboards that use those switches but their not that popular since most people buy mechanical fir tge additional key travel. Why not just get a gaming board that uses scissor switches like on the logitech? Also may I ask why you specifically want a low profile mechanical switch.

[tbc]

lower profile is more ergonomic.

 

 

I think you guys are having trouble differentiating between 'low profile' and smaller layouts.

 

low profile means the height of the keyboard (perpendicular to table).  layout refers to the number and position of keys.  smaller layouts reduce the width and depth of the board, not the height.

[Mainfold]

 

 

 

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=655

Cherry MX 3.0

Only comes in reds. ):

 

 

Might give that one a go, looks like it's at what I'd call "acceptably low profile". But, gotta get hold of a hand-rest

[TheProfosist]

lower profile is more ergonomic.

 

 

I think you guys are having trouble differentiating between 'low profile' and smaller layouts.

 

low profile means the height of the keyboard (perpendicular to table).  layout refers to the number and position of keys.  smaller layouts reduce the width and depth of the board, not the height.

I would disagree and would say typing on something with less key travel is worse for your fingers and hands.

[TheProfosist]

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=655

Cherry MX 3.0

Only comes in reds. ):

it only comes in reds because its a gaming keyboard. Also I dont think a clicking mechanism would fit in that smaller amount of area.

[91Chris]

Hello. I've been looking for low profile too. All I have come across online are keyboards where the keys are sat lower to the housing, the keyboards are still more or less the same overall thickness as other mechanical keyboards.

[TheProfosist]

Hello. I've been looking for low profile too. All I have come across online are keyboards where the keys are sat lower to the housing, the keyboards are still more or less the same overall thickness as other mechanical keyboards.

Most people that want low profile want a shorter keystroke not a thinner keyboard.

[ManOfDisguise]

Yea, good luck finding a KB with your criteria. Why dont you tryto get used to the higher profile keys and just go for the switch that is the easiest to actuate? as intakes the least force and, or travels the least before it actuates

[Mainfold]

I would disagree and would say typing on something with less key travel is worse for your fingers and hands.

 

No one said less travel, the whole profile of the keyboard is lower, hence the "low profile" and ergonomic nature of the design, so there keys are placed lower in the first place. Travel can be just as long, as the actual actuation of the switch itself remains the same as on any other keyboard that utilizes the same switches.

[TheProfosist]

No one said less travel, the whole profile of the keyboard is lower, hence the "low profile" and ergonomic, so there keys are placed lower in the first place. Travel can be just as long, as the actual actuation of the switch itself remains the same as on any other keyboard that utilizes the same switches.

The problem with that is to have more travel you need a taller switch. They could permissibly change Cherry MX to sit lower but you would run into problem with the 2 piece design then.

[Mainfold]

The problem with that is to have more travel you need a taller switch. They could permissibly change Cherry MX to sit lower but you would run into problem with the 2 piece design then.

 

Here's an image with an example (a bit on both "extremes" of the different sides of low and high), where it shows on the left, the conventional keys used on the switches, and on the right you have the possible way of solving the profile of the keyboard (without having to shave down the switches and such)

 

 

By just having a key that has a lower profile in the first place, you save the hassle, but you still maintain the same length of travel. 

The Cherry MX 3.0 seems to be in the middle of those two scenarios, but the extreme-side of low would technically be the "optimal" way of making low profile keyboards, without having to sacrifice the internals of the keyboard itself. One can always get components and make a keyboard, custom.. but that requires soldering and know-how, as well as.. it's frackin' expensive.

[TheProfosist]

Here's an image with an example (a bit on both "extremes" of the different sides of low and high), where it shows on the left, the conventional keys used on the switches, and on the right you have the possible way of solving the profile of the keyboard (without having to shave down the switches and such)

 

 

By just having a key that has a lower profile in the first place, you save the hassle, but you still maintain the same length of travel. 

The Cherry MX 3.0 seems to be in the middle of those two scenarios, but the extreme-side of low would technically be the "optimal" way of making low profile keyboards, without having to sacrifice the internals of the keyboard itself. One can always get components and make a keyboard, custom.. but that requires soldering and know-how, as well as.. it's frackin' expensive.

you picture wouldnt work because the switch might make it to the actuation point if that. If it does just make youve defeated one nice thing about mechanical switch keyboards. There are a good number of lower profile keys, the thing is none of them change the travel distance of the switch only the keycap height.

Also looking at your picture its kinda wrong as there are only very few keyboards ive seen with a stem longer than the bottom of the keycap.

[Mainfold]

you picture wouldnt work because the switch might make it to the actuation point if that. If it does just make youve defeated one nice thing about mechanical switch keyboards. There are a good number of lower profile keys, the thing is none of them change the travel distance of the switch only the keycap height.

Also looking at your picture its kinda wrong as there are only very few keyboards ive seen with a stem longer than the bottom of the keycap.

 

My point exactly: you can (possibly) easily make it "low enough", by just swapping out keycaps, without screwing with travel-distance. As long as the key is low enough, all that remains is to get a board that's low in the first place, and it would be a nice combo.

Problem is, not all layouts fit all types of keycaps, some have different locations on the keycap where they're mounted to the switch (the part of the keycap that interfaces with the switch, might at times be off center, making the keys not fit some boards).

 

So, not all boards are compatible with the different types of keycaps, like for instance.. if you have a scandiavian layout on your board, but the aftermarket keycaps have a UK, US, or even some Asian layout.. then you're somewhat screwed.

[tbc]

profo, i'm really not sure where you're going with this.

 

if i put a book underneath my keyboard, i've now increased the height of the board relative of the table.  If I remove that same book and put the board back on the table, I've decreased the z-height.

 

obviously, this has nothing to do with the board.  just as obviously, i did not affect the switch at all.
 

now, what if I remove the bottom of the keyboard case?  Well, the height of the board will be lower for one.  Okay, now what If I use DSA caps instead of SA caps?  once again, the board is shorter without affecting the switch feel.

 

 

obviously, it's impossible for a mx board to be as low profile as a scissor switch.  you're insisting that we must modify the switch to reach scissor switch levels kind of low.  I'm saying that reaching that point is not necessary and any reduction in height we CAN get becomes useful.

[Alex(PlayMedium)]

you picture wouldnt work because the switch might make it to the actuation point if that. If it does just make youve defeated one nice thing about mechanical switch keyboards. There are a good number of lower profile keys, the thing is none of them change the travel distance of the switch only the keycap height.

Also looking at your picture its kinda wrong as there are only very few keyboards ive seen with a stem longer than the bottom of the keycap.

It would actually, here is the inside of a cherry MX keycap:

The parts marked in red are stadoffs that prevent the switch from going all the way to the bottom. It stops the keycap just before the step of the switch would hit the bottom. This enhances the lifetime of the switches. If you were to make a keycap which has the top surface at ecatly that height, you would not loose any travel distance.

[Mainfold]

 

It would actually, here is the inside of a cherry MX keycap:

The parts marked in red are stadoffs that prevent the switch from going all the way to the bottom. It stops the keycap just before the step of the switch would hit the bottom. This enhances the lifetime of the switches. If you were to make a keycap which has the top surface at ecatly that height, you would not loose any travel distance.

 

 

..or even a shorter one, with just an o-ring on it.

[Mainfold]

I know there's some low profile keycaps, like the LP-family and G80-3850, but the LP's are for other brands with different switches, if I'm not mistaking.

[TheProfosist]

profo, i'm really not sure where you're going with this.

 

if i put a book underneath my keyboard, i've now increased the height of the board relative of the table.  If I remove that same book and put the board back on the table, I've decreased the z-height.

 

obviously, this has nothing to do with the board.  just as obviously, i did not affect the switch at all.

 

now, what if I remove the bottom of the keyboard case?  Well, the height of the board will be lower for one.  Okay, now what If I use DSA caps instead of SA caps?  once again, the board is shorter without affecting the switch feel.

 

 

obviously, it's impossible for a mx board to be as low profile as a scissor switch.  you're insisting that we must modify the switch to reach scissor switch levels kind of low.  I'm saying that reaching that point is not necessary and any reduction in height we CAN get becomes useful.

Do you want low keyboard height, low switch travel, or both. Also what do you consider low for both? I would also like to point out there is nothing wrong with scissor switches if you prefer them, just make sure to get one of the better implementations.

It would actually, here is the inside of a cherry MX keycap:

The parts marked in red are stadoffs that prevent the switch from going all the way to the bottom. It stops the keycap just before the step of the switch would hit the bottom. This enhances the lifetime of the switches. If you were to make a keycap which has the top surface at ecatly that height, you would not loose any travel distance.

What you mentioned is usually the case but there are exceptions. I was also referring to the first picture not the second. There are keycaps like that have none or barley any support and thus are shorter like you mentioned, you wont find them stock on any gaming board though.

[TheProfosist]

..or even a shorter one, with just an o-ring on it.

you would have to get a smaller oring like the red ones WASD sells unless you intend on purposely lowering key travel.

I know there's some low profile keycaps, like the LP-family and G80-3850, but the LP's are for other brands with different switches, if I'm not mistaking.

Yes LP caps are available on cherry boards and yes there are some that would fit a MX board. The layout of the caps might not be exactly standard though so all keys may not fit perfectly without finding extras.