access point problems and new access point

[Jojomatik]

Hi,
im currently looking forward to buying a new access point for my home wifi. 
Since my router is located in the basement and my room is directly under the roof I can't use my routers wifi (provided from my ISP) that frequently.
Only a hand full of devices are connected to the routers wifi. 
I have an access point located in my room which is serving wifi to basically anything in my house. 2 TVs, 4 Smartphones, 1 Tablet, 1 Laptop, Google Home, Chromecast, PlayStation, Radio....

This is the product I currently use.
https://www.tp-link.com/de/products/details/TL-WR802N.html
I choose it because of the small formfactor, low cost and because it was able to transmit up to 300 Mbit/s. As it turned out it only has an Fast Ethernet port... So its basically capped at 100 Mbit/s to my LAN devices and 300/2 = 150 Mbit/s to devices in the same wifi if i understand this correctly.

I had a similar product from "hama" in use before. It was even a little bit smaller.

Both APs have the same problem. Sometimes (most likely every 2 or 3 weeks; sometimes its happening multiple times a day) it looses connection (I'm not really aware of why its happening) to all devices (or to the router im not really sure).

My phone (and all the other android devices i tested) start showing a "!" next to the signal strength after i try to access the internet. When i try to reconnect my devices they are not able to. 

Important information: Its NOT my ISP being unreliable. I can indeed use my LAN or the routers own wifi to connect to the Internet.

I have 2 ideas whats happening: 

1.
The AP is unstable because of the number of devices connected to it. Since its a small and low cost product i think its possible.

2. 
My AP looses connection to the router?! Its connected via two switches to the router which might not be the way to go but its needed in my house because of the "cabeling" my father and i did, but i think it should still work perfectly fine (it does most of the time; 95% of the speeds claimed by my ISP).
If my AP looses connection to the router there is no way my devices can reconnect because it has no own DHCP server. So my phone wont get a new IP.

This would explain the "!" on my phone. "!" meaning no Internet connection but still connected to network. (correct me if "!" means something else) And its not able to reconnect because its not possible to get a new internal IP.

I don't really now why number 2 would occur but two many devices for a small AP might be a reason for most problems i guess. Is the construction of my home network the reason (2 switches between router and AP)?

I think the next step would be trying to transfer files from my laptop (Wifi) to my PC (LAN in the switch closer to the AP) and check if local transfer works and only the connection to the router is broke.

If the count of devices might be a reason are there any APs or routers (used as AP) you would recommend? Since stability means much to me (and my family) at this point i would spend around 80-90€ max.

I dont need any router technology or features:
I think of the Ubiquiti UAP-AC-LITE https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B016K4GQVG/

My criteria (most important upfront) :

- stability

- speed (up to at least 300 Mbit/s; Gigabit LAN port)

- range
- nice looks (its in my room)
- 5 GHz 
- small?

I would appreciate it if you would give me some suggestions why my wifi might be unstable and suggest some new APs or Routers i can use as an AP. (It should be available in germany)

Thanks for helping me.
Jojomatik

 

[The Benjamins]

Here is some wifi basics.

 

The rated speed is of download + upload so 300 is in reality 150

Next is the ratings is if it is in perfect conditions.

 

So to really get 300 you should get 750 minimum.

 

Ubiquity has some nice APs I would get one faster then 750 for best results. I am on my phone so I will see if I can link any.

[Windows7ge]

I was going to recommend Ubiquiti. They have long range Wi-Fi APs. One of the issues you might be experiencing is interference from other Wi-Fi users in your area, or if you lose connection when moving upstairs to downstairs it's because the AP isn't handing off control to the downstairs AP so the signal gets weaker until it gives out. If some of the Ethernet cable runs parallel to active power wires that can cause issues due to the electromagnetic field.

 

Some of your thoughts are incorrect but not significantly. Just because you lose connection to the AP whenever you reconnect your device its going to query the router with a DHCP request. If its MAC was already assigned an IP and the lease isn't up. It'll just reassign you the IP again. The ! is likely a loss of internet but I'd check the phones Wi-Fi status to see if it says "connected", "connected, no internet", getting IP, or if it says it's authenticating.

[The Benjamins]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B015PRCBBI/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1523115785&sr=8-3&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&rps=1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=ubiquity+ap&dpPl=1&dpID=31iJUZyx9SL&ref=plSrch

 

Ubiquity AP long range, 450 2.5, 820 5.0, $100

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B015PRO512/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523115785&sr=8-1&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&rps=1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=ubiquity+ap&dpPl=1&dpID=31zGaGUPhaL&ref=plSrch

 

Ubiquity AP PRO, 450 2.4, 1300 5.0, $190 has eth pass through.

 

 

 

The long range is a slight bump over the lite you linked, but cost is very close.

[Jojomatik]

1 minute ago, Windows7ge said:

I was going to recommend Ubiquiti. They have long range Wi-Fi APs. One of the issues you might be experiencing is interference from other Wi-Fi users in your area, or if you lose connection when moving upstairs to downstairs it's because the AP isn't handing off control to the downstairs AP so the signal gets weaker until it gives out. If some of the Ethernet cable runs parallel to active power wires that can cause issues due to the electromagnetic field.

 

Some of your thoughts are incorrect but not significantly. Just because you lose connection to the AP whenever you reconnect your device its going to query the router with a DHCP request. If its MAC was already assigned an IP and the lease isn't up. It'll just reassign you the IP again. The ! is likely a loss of internet but I'd check the phones Wi-Fi status to see if it says "connected", "connected, no internet", getting IP, or if it says it's authenticating.

Both networks (router and AP) have different SSIDs. Should have mentioned this.
Most of the time I have at least 2 or 3 out of the 4 bars connection on my phone even if I'm downstairs.
Its defenitly not the wireless connection thats failing (at least i think so). Because its not 1 device failing connection at once but all of them from one moment to another. Forgot to mention this as well.
The current fix for this is rebooting the AP by taking power from it for 5 seconds and pluggin it back in. 

I dont think the Ethernet cables are interfering. My PC is plugged in to the same switch as the AP (Both only like 0,5 m away from each other) and my PC works perfectly fine via LAN.

Since my router stores the local IP adresses and not the AP itself my devices won't be able to reconnect to the AP if the AP looses the ethernet-connection to the router. I just tried it by unplugging the ethernet cable. "!" comes up (Indeed in the connectivity settings it says "internet might not be available" in german) and if i turn wifi off on my phone and turn it back on the connection is not made (my phones status: "Verbinden" = "Connecting") until i plug in the ethernet in the AP again.
Since im living in a small village i dont think its interfering with other wifis. 
The App "WIFI ANALYZER" shows only my 2 networks and 1 or 2 other networks with low strength.

Thank You for your ideas but i dont think those are the problems i experience as of the reasons i mentioned.

[Jojomatik]

16 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B015PRCBBI/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1523115785&sr=8-3&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&rps=1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=ubiquity+ap&dpPl=1&dpID=31iJUZyx9SL&ref=plSrch

 

Ubiquity AP long range, 450 2.5, 820 5.0, $100

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B015PRO512/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523115785&sr=8-1&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&rps=1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=ubiquity+ap&dpPl=1&dpID=31zGaGUPhaL&ref=plSrch

 

Ubiquity AP PRO, 450 2.4, 1300 5.0, $190 has eth pass through.

 

 

 

The long range is a slight bump over the lite you linked, but cost is very close.

Thank You. Are there any disadvantages from long range to the Lite? or is it just the same thing with better range? In germany its 15€ more. Thats 20% more. Is it worth the price bump? My property isn't that big as well. 

Is there a number how many devices i can connect to those APs? Most of them are just connected but not taking up much traffic: TVs, Chromecast, Google Home etc. Is it an issue having a lot of devices connected to an AP even if they are not using it alot?

If i transfer a file from my PC -> switch -> AP -> Laptop can i get the full bandwith or just half the bandwith?

if i transfer a file from Laptop A -> AP -> Laptop B its obvious i only get 50% but via ethernet on one side?

Any idea if the ubiquiti will fix my problems mentioned in my initial post?

[The Benjamins]

20 minutes ago, Jojomatik said:

Thank You. Are there any disadvantages from long range to the Lite? or is it just the same thing with better range? In germany its 15€ more. Thats 20% more. Is it worth the price bump? My property isn't that big as well. 

Is there a number how many devices i can connect to those APs? Most of them are just connected but not taking up much traffic: TVs, Chromecast, Google Home etc. Is it an issue having a lot of devices connected to an AP even if they are not using it alot?

If i transfer a file from my PC -> switch -> AP -> Laptop can i get the full bandwith or just half the bandwith?

if i transfer a file from Laptop A -> AP -> Laptop B its obvious i only get 50% but via ethernet on one side?

Any idea if the ubiquiti will fix my problems mentioned in my initial post?

 

The main take away is that the Lite has 2x2 MIMO and the LR has 3x3, in basic terms the 2x2 has 2 receiving and transmitting radios, the 3x3 has 3, so that means it can revice or send up to 2 (lite) or 3 (LR) at the same time. and below you can see the LR has a more powerful antenna to send out signals.

 

Lite

 

LR

 

 

So a 3x3 will handle multiple devices better.

 

so as for speed if can transfer to 2 or 3 laptops at max speed at the same time, but again you need to realize you can never get the rated speed. it is rated speed devided by 2, minus interference.  so for the Lite on 2.4 I would expect 70-100 and on 5.0 I would expect 200-300, the LR will get you better 2.4 at about 100-150. (this is best case scenario) The LR will handle better between rooms and can manage more devices with out as much of a impact.

 

NOTE: when you buy DO NOT get the enterprise edition it will NOT come with a power adapter. (it is expected to be powered over Ethernet)

Also Ubiquity is a business grade networking products company and usually has top notch quality, I use their Edge Router lite and love it.

 

PDF

https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/unifi/UniFi_AC_APs_DS.pdf

[Jojomatik]

13 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

 

The main take away is that the Lite has 2x2 MIMO and the LR has 3x3, in basic terms the 2x2 has 2 receiving and transmitting radios, the 3x3 has 3, so that means it can revice or send up to 2 (lite) or 3 (LR) at the same time. and below you can see the LR has a more powerful antenna to send out signals.

 

Lite

 

LR

 

 

So a 3x3 will handle multiple devices better.

 

so as for speed if can transfer to 2 or 3 laptops at max speed at the same time, but again you need to realize you can never get the rated speed. it is rated speed devided by 2, minus interference.  so for the Lite on 2.4 I would expect 70-100 and on 5.0 I would expect 200-300, the LR will get you better 2.4 at about 100-150. (this is best case scenario) The LR will handle better between rooms and can manage more devices with out as much of a impact.

 

NOTE: when you buy DO NOT get the enterprise edition it will NOT come with a power adapter. (it is expected to be powered over Ethernet)

Also Ubiquity is a business grade networking products company and usually has top notch quality, I use their Edge Router lite and love it.

 

PDF

https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/unifi/UniFi_AC_APs_DS.pdf

Thank you for the detailed information.
I think im ordering the LR one and try it out. If it doesn't fix the issue I'll have to return it


 

[Windows7ge]

4 hours ago, Jojomatik said:

Because its not 1 device failing connection at once but all of them from one moment to another.

So when one goes out they pretty much all go out.

4 hours ago, Jojomatik said:

I dont think the Ethernet cables are interfering. My PC is plugged in to the same switch as the AP (Both only like 0,5 m away from each other) and my PC works perfectly fine via LAN.

If your computer isn't experiencing similar issues then the wiring is probably fine. You could also trying doing an extended ping test to your router from your computer. If you have a lot of lost packets it's an issue in the wiring or switches. If not then it's most likely fine.

4 hours ago, Jojomatik said:

Since my router stores the local IP adresses and not the AP itself my devices won't be able to reconnect to the AP if the AP looses the ethernet-connection to the router. I just tried it by unplugging the ethernet cable. "!" comes up (Indeed in the connectivity settings it says "internet might not be available" in german) and if i turn wifi off on my phone and turn it back on the connection is not made (my phones status: "Verbinden" = "Connecting") until i plug in the ethernet in the AP again.
Since im living in a small village i dont think its interfering with other wifis. 
The App "WIFI ANALYZER" shows only my 2 networks and 1 or 2 other networks with low strength.

The more you explain the situation the more this sounds like the AP itself is at fault. If the connection problem is between the AP and the router that's a different problem than what I was proposing which would be an issue between the end devices and the AP. Again if you can ping from your PC to the router through the switches: ping [default-gateway] -t let it run a while then do control + c if most succeeded I'd very much say somethings wrong with the AP.

[KarathKasun]

5 hours ago, The Benjamins said:

Here is some wifi basics.

 

The rated speed is of download + upload so 300 is in reality 150

Next is the ratings is if it is in perfect conditions.

 

So to really get 300 you should get 750 minimum.

 

Ubiquity has some nice APs I would get one faster then 750 for best results. I am on my phone so I will see if I can link any.

Not really true.  Bandwidth does not divide in half for up/down bandwidth, its just 300mbit/s total.  If one PC is downloading without uploading much, you will see a bit under 300mbit/s because of signaling overhead.  It divides when more devices are on the WiFi network because the bandwidth is a pool.  If 3 devices are on WiFi doing things the max will be ~100mbit/s per device.

 

This is why you have AP's with multiple radios, something like 2x 2.4ghz radios and 1x 5ghz radio.

 

If the AP goes dark with no ability to reconnect, its a firmware issue.  I had this problem with a WRT 1200AC, I changed over to a full Debian Linux OS on it (it boots from an eSATA drive now) and the problem went away.  Any pre-built custom firmware I could find was using bugged or out of date WiFi drivers and these drivers would crash the WiFi under specific load situations.