Building PC for the first time

[RedHill]

Hey all,

 

All my life I was buying pre-buiild PCs and now when I have a bit more money I want to build my first PC. Also I want to build a very good PC at a reasonable price. First I start asking people on forums from my country (Croatia) and most of them suggested this build with few little variations, but mostly it was something like this:

 

GIGABYTE Z370P D3

i3 8100

GTX 1060 6GB

Fortron 550W

Toshiba P300 1TB High Performance

Kingston A400 SSD 120GB

Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB

Zalman Z1 Neo case

 

All that costs around 950-1000€ in my country or in $ 1100-1200, but then one guy recommended me to get Ryzen 5 1600 instead, because it has 6 cores more threads, you can OC it and its long-term CPU. Then I started to reasearch and people were commenting how i3 8100 is better for gaming while Ryzen 5 1600 is better for rendering and other stuff that requires multiple cores, but to be hones I think Ryzen 5 1600 is better at everything, it maybe lacks few FPS in gaming, but when you OC it you get the same FPS as with i3 8100 and also CPU loads about 50%, while i3 can be loaded like 80%

 

The above PC is with i3 8100, this is my Ryzen build:

 

ASRock AB350 PRO4, AM4

Ryzen 5 1600

MSI GeForce GTX 1060 6GB

Fortron 550W

Toshiba P300 1TB High Performance

Kingston A400 SSD 120GB

Crucial Ballistx Sport 8GB

Zalman Z1 Neo case

 

The two builds are the same besude diff CPU and board and AMD build is a bit expensive, but I think the diff in the price between builds are not that big as Ryzen 5 1600 can get you the same performance even better and I think its a more long-term CPU than i3 8100. I also never OC CPU, but I think doing a small OC isn't that hard, especially today with all the guides and software that helps you to do that.

 

Beside trying to build as best build as I can get for the money, I also want to learn more about building PCs so I want to use this thread to learn more about it

 

First, tell me which build is better (read: which CPU is better) and after that question being answered I'll have more question about other components in my build.

 

I hope I am not pain in the ass, but I really want to this proper and to learn  

[LienusLateTips]

Ryzen 5 1600 > i3 8100 in gaming lol.

 

I'd get the below, but what PSU is that? And change the SSD.

[RedHill]

3 minutes ago, JDE said:

Ryzen 5 1600 > i3 8100 in gaming lol.

 

I'd get the below, but what PSU is that? And change the SSD.

its this PSU: http://www.fsplifestyle.com/en/product/HEXA85plus550W.html

 

most of them recommended Kingston, while some in minority recommended SSD Transcend 128GB SATA SSD230S 3D Nand or WD Blue

[LienusLateTips]

1 minute ago, RedHill said:

its this PSU: http://www.fsplifestyle.com/en/product/HEXA85plus550W.html

 

most of them recommended Kingston, while some in minority recommended SSD Transcend 128GB SATA SSD230S 3D Nand or WD Blue

I'd recommend both over the Kingston one. That's their lowest end model, and in many places (US, UK, potentially Germany) you can get much better for the price. 

 

Scrap the PSU. Could you give me the web shops you can shop from?

[RedHill]

1 minute ago, JDE said:

I'd recommend both over the Kingston one. That's their lowest end model, and in many places (US, UK, potentially Germany) you can get much better for the price. 

 

Scrap the PSU. Could you give me the web shops you can shop from?

This is one of the best if not the best store to build a PC  in Croatia:

https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/napajanja/

 

I linked you PSU category.

[LienusLateTips]

4 minutes ago, RedHill said:

This is one of the best if not the best store to build a PC  in Croatia:

https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/napajanja/

 

I linked you PSU category.

This would be the cheapest one I would recommend in that pile: https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/napajanja/4018

 

Fractal Integra M is also pretty ok AFAIK, let's check with @Stefan Payne with that

[RedHill]

1 minute ago, JDE said:

This would be the cheapest one I would recommend in that pile: https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/napajanja/4018

 

Fractal Integra M is also pretty ok AFAIK, let's check with @Stefan Payne with that

ok, thank you for that. so what about CPUs, I didn't get you with that gaming lol

[Guest]

Ryzen is definitely better, but if you want to choose Intel, go for the 7XXX i5's (kaby lake). They have cheaper mobo's and are basically same as 8th gen i3's. Id also change the case to something like bitfenix nova TG and reconsider the PSU choice.

[LienusLateTips]

2 minutes ago, RedHill said:

ok, thank you for that. so what about CPUs, I didn't get you with that gaming lol

8350K is a rebrand i5 7600K most of the time

8100 is lower end than 8350K

Ryzen 5 1600 beats the i5 7600K

[RedHill]

Just now, Konrad Kwasniewski said:

Ryzen is definitely better, but if you want to choose Intel, go for the 7XXX i5's (kaby lake). They have cheaper mobo's and are basically same as 8th gen i3's. Id also change the case to something like bitfenix nova TG and reconsider the PSU choice.

For now its more Ryzen 5 1600, as of PSU @JDE recommended the above over my Fortron 550W

[RedHill]

So as things stands now:

Ryzen 5 1600

SSD Transcende 128 or 240GB

Corsair 550W

 

What about motherboard? Is this one good enough: http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/AB350 Pro4/ its pretty cheap or I should get a better one.

 

is MSI GeForce GTX 1060 6GB good GPU or I should get an AMD GPU?

[LienusLateTips]

6 minutes ago, RedHill said:

So as things stands now:

Ryzen 5 1600

SSD Transcende 128 or 240GB

Corsair 550W

 

What about motherboard? Is this one good enough: http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/AB350 Pro4/ its pretty cheap or I should get a better one.

 

is MSI GeForce GTX 1060 6GB good GPU or I should get an AMD GPU?

It's pretty good.

The completing AMD GPU is the RX 580 and they literally have the same performance so don't bother unless it's quite a bit cheaper since it's more power hungry.

 

The motherboard is probably fine, ask @dave_k

[RedHill]

5 minutes ago, JDE said:

It's pretty good.

The completing AMD GPU is the RX 580 and they literally have the same performance so don't bother unless it's quite a bit cheaper since it's more power hungry.

 

The motherboard is probably fine, ask @dave_k

I think GTX 1060 6GB is good enough, so for now:

Ryzen 5 1600

MSI GeForce GTX 1060 6GB

Corsair 550W

SSD Transcende 128GB or 240GB

 

@Stefan Payne should I use Corsair 550W or Fractal Integra M PSU?

 

also  @dave_k ASRock AB350 PRO4, AM4 good enough or?

 

EDIT: What about HDDs, I think almost every single person recommended HDD Toshiba P300 1TB, 64MB, 7200rpm, High-Performance. It's pretty cheap and very good HDD even better than some higher priced HDDs, but some said that Toshiba P300 is a bit noisy or?

 

If not Toshiba I guess WD is the only choice?

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, RedHill said:

I think GTX 1060 6GB is good enough, so for now:

Ryzen 5 1600

MSI GeForce GTX 1060 6GB

Corsair 550W

SSD Transcende 128GB or 240GB

 

@Stefan Payne should I use Corsair 550W or Fractal Integra M PSU?

 

also  @dave_k ASRock AB350 PRO4, AM4 good enough or?

reply

EDIT: What about HDDs, I think almost every single person recommended HDD Toshiba P300 1TB, 64MB, 7200rpm, High-Performance. It's pretty cheap and very good HDD even better than some higher priced HDDs, but some said that Toshiba P300 is a bit noisy or?

 

If not Toshiba I guess WD is the only choice?

There is also Seagate Barracuda. And I'd maybe get a different SSD. I am not sure if transcend is your best choice even on a budget. I'd get a Samsing 850 EVO.

[RedHill]

2 minutes ago, Konrad Kwasniewski said:

There is also Seagate Barracuda. And I'd maybe get a different SSD. I am not sure if transcend is your best choice even on a budget. I'd get a Samsing 850 EVO.

so I guess as for HDD, any should be good or? so Samsung > WD Blue > Transcende

 

I know that Samsung has probably the best SSDs, but they are expensive. I can keep eye on it.

 

My budget is around 1000€, that is I guess 1100-1200$, but maybe I could go a bit over the budget, but maybe.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, RedHill said:

so I guess as for HDD, any should be good or? so Samsung > WD Blue > Transcende

 

I know that Samsung has probably the best SSDs, but they are expensive. I can keep eye on it.

 

My budget is around 1000€, that is I guess 1100-1200$, but maybe I could go a bit over the budget, but maybe.

Any of these HDD's are decent, Toshiba, Seagate or WD- all are standard 7200rpm drives- just get the cheapest one.

 

With an SSD, i really recommend gettnig a good one, as SSD's have a limited nr. of read write cycles, and a good warranty is also a bonus.

[RedHill]

2 minutes ago, Konrad Kwasniewski said:

Any of these HDD's are decent, Toshiba, Seagate or WD- all are standard 7200rpm drives- just get the cheapest one.

 

With an SSD, i really recommend gettnig a good one, as SSD's have a limited nr. of read write cycles, and a good warranty is also a bonus.

yep, Toshiba P300 should do fine

 

as for SSDs, hmmm... The one you recommended has 5 years warranty in the store where I plan to buy: https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/tvrdi-diskovi/ssd-sata/3125

 

and it costs $135 or 110€

 

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, JDE said:

This would be the cheapest one I would recommend in that pile: https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/napajanja/4018

 

Fractal Integra M is also pretty ok AFAIK, let's check with @Stefan Payne with that

The Fractal Integra would be OK, if it had a good Supervisior IC  

That one is a GR8313 - 8pin without OCP on any rail. And this unit does not have DC-DC but Dual Mag Amp (=still independently regulated). But without OCP, not really something I'd want...

 

Fan RPM is also an the high side too:
https://www.computerbase.de/2014-11/fractal-design-integra-m-450-watt-im-test/7/

1 hour ago, Konrad Kwasniewski said:

Ryzen is definitely better, but if you want to choose Intel, go for the 7XXX i5's (kaby lake). They have cheaper mobo's and are basically same as 8th gen i3's. Id also change the case to something like bitfenix nova TG and reconsider the PSU choice.

No, just no.

Because it seems that they are neither forwards nor backwards compatible. And the 7k Series is max. Quad cores with SMT - since 2008. So should be avoided at all costs. They are just too expensive for what you get...

 

And with Ryzen you can at least put a 2k Series in it.

40 minutes ago, RedHill said:

 should I use Corsair 550W or Fractal Integra M PSU?

Depends on the Corsair you are talking about...

There are just too many 550W Corsair PSU to say...

 

BUT:
is it possible to wait a month or two?!

Because the upcoming Ryzen 2k Series seems just so much better that it might be worth the wait.

Well at least ~300MHz more on the R7-2700X vs. the 1700X.

3,7GHz Base, up to 4124MHz Turbo Clock.

The 1700X has 3,4GHz Base and up to 3,8GHz Turbo (well, actually 3.9GHz with just 2 Cores or so)

 

[RedHill]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

The Fractal Integra seems OK, nothing wrong with it (well, if I remember correctly, the Protection IC, as usual :()

That one is a GR8313 - 8pin without OCP on any rail. And this unit does not have DC-DC but Dual Mag Amp (=still independently regulated). But without OCP, not really something I'd want...

 

Fan RPM is also an the high side too:
https://www.computerbase.de/2014-11/fractal-design-integra-m-450-watt-im-test/7/

No, just no.

Because it seems that they are neither forwards nor backwards compatible. And the 7k Series is max. Quad cores with SMT - since 2008. So should be avoided at all costs. They are just too expensive for what you get...

 

And with Ryzen you can at least put a 2k Series in it.

Depends on the Corsair you are talking about...

There are just too many 550W Corsair PSU to say...

 

BUT:
is it possible to wait a month or two?!

Because the upcoming Ryzen 2k Series seems just so much better that it might be worth the wait.

Well at least ~300MHz more on the R7-2700X vs. the 1700X.

3,7GHz Base, up to 4124MHz Turbo Clock.

The 1700X has 3,4GHz Base and up to 3,8GHz Turbo (well, actually 3.9GHz with just 2 Cores or so)

 

WE are talking about this one Corsair: https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/napajanja/4018

 

I mean I could wait for a month or two, but anything more than that is too much. I am sick of playing games on  medium/low settings or in most cases with the lowest possible settings and 720 resolution, that's why I want to buy a new PC as fast as I can, but then again I want to build my PC properly and to learn few things about building PCs, just for the future

[Stefan Payne]

5 minutes ago, RedHill said:

WE are talking about this one Corsair: https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/napajanja/4018

Ah, that one.

Well, for the price I'd rather get this:

https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/napajanja/3991

 

That seems like a better deal to me...

5 minutes ago, RedHill said:

I mean I could wait for a month or two, but anything more than that is too much. I am sick of playing games on  medium/low settings or in most cases with the lowest possible settings and 720 resolution, that's why I want to buy a new PC as fast as I can, but then again I want to build my PC properly and to learn few things about building PCs, just for the future

Yes, I understand that. 

And I just wanted to mention that the Ryzen 2000 series is said to arrive somewhere in April. 
it is totally your choice if you want to wait or not. 

 

The main difference seems to be +300MHz more clock, but nothing is known about the price (yet)...

[RedHill]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

Ah, that one.

Well, for the price I'd rather get this:

https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/napajanja/3991

 

That seems like a better deal to me...

Yes, I understand that. 

And I just wanted to mention that the Ryzen 2000 series is said to arrive somewhere in April. 
it is totally your choice if you want to wait or not. 

 

The main difference seems to be +300MHz more clock, but nothing is known about the price (yet)...

as for PSUs, there are even cheaper Fortrons like this two:

 

https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/napajanja/3964

https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/napajanja/4045

What about them or the Fortron you linked is the best buy?

 

how much 300MhZ can make the diff?

[Stefan Payne]

13 minutes ago, RedHill said:

as for PSUs, there are even cheaper Fortrons like this two:

 

https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/napajanja/3964

https://www.futura-it.hr/katalog/komponente/napajanja/4045

What about them or the Fortron you linked is the best buy?

Yes but those aren't really great and rather cheapish, nothing I'd want in an enduser/consumer unit.

And both aren't really tested at all. So we don't know much about the performance.

The Hexa+ could be independently regulated, but the Hydro X is just that much better...

 

13 minutes ago, RedHill said:

how much 300MhZ can make the diff?

Not much. We are talking about something like 12,5% more clock speed. 

In the olden days it was said that only half of that is more performance so we are talking about something like 6% more performance.

 

HOWEVER AMD said that they did something to the memory controller. And what that does is not known. 

So it could be that we are talking about way more performance in games due to better latency (and tbh the Latency of Ryzen is pretty bad right now)...

 

The only thing we have right now is some 3DMark CPU rating thingy that, according to Planet3DNow.de, makes the 2700x around 14% faster than the 1700X...

 

We don't know much about it but all we know is that it will be better...

[RedHill]

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yes but those aren't really great and rather cheapish, nothing I'd want in an enduser/consumer unit.

And both aren't really tested at all. So we don't know much about the performance.

The Hexa+ could be independently regulated, but the Hydro X is just that much better...

 

Not much. We are talking about something like 12,5% more clock speed. 

In the olden days it was said that only half of that is more performance so we are talking about something like 6% more performance.

 

HOWEVER AMD said that they did something to the memory controller. And what that does is not known. 

So it could be that we are talking about way more performance in games due to better latency (and tbh the Latency of Ryzen is pretty bad right now)...

 

The only thing we have right now is some 3DMark CPU rating thingy that, according to Planet3DNow.de, makes the 2700x around 14% faster than the 1700X...

 

We don't know much about it but all we know is that it will be better...

I believe you, so I'll go with 450W HydroX, it will be enough for Ryzen 5 1600 and 1060 GPU?

 

well the Ryzen 2 series are probably going to be much better than my current favourite Ryzen 5 1600, but if it will be much more expensive then Ryzen 5 1600 should still be fine

 

By memory control you mean the RAMs? When I look into the RAMs on the webshop, I get so confused, because there are so many brands of RAMs, so many speeds and other letters next to it like CL and other stuff.

 

More speed doesn't mean better performance and also your board need to support the speed you want in your RAM. Most of the people on other forums recommended me Crucial Ballistx Sport 8GB probably 2400MHz.

 

What are good RAM brands and what speed should I go with Ryzen 5 1600, I also heard that 2x4 in some cases gives you better performances rather than one single 8GB, is that true? 

 

What RAM to choose for Ryzen 5 1600?

[Stefan Payne]

17 minutes ago, RedHill said:

By memory control you mean the RAMs?

No, I mean the thing inside the CPU that controls the Ram.

That's why it is called Memory Controller -> Controls the Memory. 

Yeah, sometimes it is that simple ^^ 

And the Memory Latency of a Ryzen 1x00 is quite high right now. 

Wich means the time it takes to access the Memory is quite high.

 

17 minutes ago, RedHill said:

What are good RAM brands and what speed should I go with Ryzen 5 1600, I also heard that 2x4 in some cases gives you better performances rather than one single 8GB, is that true? 

 

What RAM to choose for Ryzen 5 1600?

Something with the so called "Samsung B-Die" seems to work best with AMD Ryzen.

 

The Crucial (=Micron) memory doesn't seem to work that well with Ryzen but at least it works at reasonable clock rates...

 

Here a good list of recommended DRAM, though in German (the other thing I found was on Reddit):
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f13/die-ultimative-hardwareluxx-samsung-8gb-b-die-liste-alle-hersteller-03-03-18-a-1161530.html

 

 

As for prices:
I'd expect similar prices for the 2k Series. FOr the 2600 you want I'd expect something around that +25% maybe in the beginning.

[RedHill]

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

No, I mean the thing inside the CPU that controls the Ram.

That's why it is called Memory Controller -> Controls the Memory. 

Yeah, sometimes it is that simple ^^ 

And the Memory Latency of a Ryzen 1x00 is quite high right now. 

Wich means the time it takes to access the Memory is quite high.

 

Something with the so called "Samsung B-Die" seems to work best with AMD Ryzen.

 

The Crucial (=Micron) memory doesn't seem to work that well with Ryzen but at least it works at reasonable clock rates...

 

Here a good list of recommended DRAM, though in German (the other thing I found was on Reddit):
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f13/die-ultimative-hardwareluxx-samsung-8gb-b-die-liste-alle-hersteller-03-03-18-a-1161530.html

 

 

As for prices:
I'd expect similar prices for the 2k Series. FOr the 2600 you want I'd expect something around that +25% maybe in the beginning.

thanks for explaining about the latency

 

as for the list of RAMs also thank you. I guess anything between 2400 and 3000MHz should be good for 1600, but I will check with your list and list o the motherboard to see is it compatibable. 

 

I also came to the conclusion that G.Skill or Corsair RAMs works best with Ryzen 5 1600.

 

Will 8GB be enough or I should go with 16GB immedietally?