When is a Ivy Bridge i7-4930k outdated?

[David89]

I kind of disagree with everything said in this thread Reasons why are as following:

 

• Gaming at 4K with two 1080s will STILL be a GPU Bottleneck. Every Benchmark i have seen, at 4k with a 1080ti, there is simply no difference.
• Ryzen+, 2 and 3 have been announced. Since Ryzen is an SOC, Motherboard doesn't make much difference any more. (Except DDR5) So switching from Ryzen to Ryzen+ or 2 on an X370 Board will still be a huge performance benefit.
• There are a number of reviews out there, that measure time under 30 FPS for any given CPU. Interestingly enough, on Anandtech the 8700K was actually pretty bad and had very high numbers of frames under 30 FPS. Interestingly enough, at release Ryzen was absolute crap in ROTR, even at 4K. With the 8700K review from Anandtech, Ryzen was at the top of the list - so either Anandtech "tuned" the results (which i highly doubt), or the updates helped pretty damn well. Oh and the 7700K has lost a few %.
• Biggest reason why for me is: Bang for the buck. For me personally i could not justify buying in to a platform, that has absolutely no upgrade path.

But - that is just my Opinion, based on the Reviews I've read.

In the end, the simple answer to the Question "When is a 4930K outdated" is: When you feel like it is. You have to do some testing for yourself, watch how the GPUs are loaded and so on.

[-rascal-]

18 hours ago, mihapiha said:

 

Two problems I have with the 8700k:

 

1. It doesn't seem worth investing in, if I remain with the same core count. This upgrade I think would still cost me around 1000 EUR, which I have a hard time justifying. I thought that this time around I'd hit 8 cores (or more) but disable the simulated threads (HT/SMP) because my gaming testing indicated a much smoother and faster experience if a Game can't utilize  more than a hand full of threads/cores. For example if you deactivate HT for GTA 5 and Civ IV your FPS goes up and your round time in Civ 6 goes down. 

 

2. I don't like the fact that it has so few PCIe lanes. I have two GPUs now, however it is not impossible (but rather possible) that I'm gonna move to 3x AMD again. I do have 2x 480 or 120.4 80mm thick radiators and I did like the look and the performance I had with the 3x R9 290Xs. Because of that I don't have a real issue cooling even three high end hot cards. 

 

 

Indeed, it's its age. Unfortunately I wasn't lucky with it either and I saw some much nicer overclockers and it kills me that it can't handle more than 4 RAM modules installed. It's memory controller is just too crappy. I bought a second 16 GB kit a year or so ago and had to resell it, because I couldn't make the 8 slot situation work stable even at stock MHz; never mind XMP. 

 

Lucky for me, the 16 GB I have now, is still plenty for most games and tasks I throw at it, but I definitely would like to go to 32 GB with a newer system. Another reason why the upgrade right now seems very odd, because the RAM prices are just ridiculous... 

 

1)

You cannot simply look at core count to determine the performance of a CPU. Back then, I upgraded from a 6-core AMD Phenom II X 1090T, to an "8-core" FX-8350...and eventually switched over to a 6-core i7-6800K. The difference, at a gaming stand-point, from a FX-8350 (4.8 / 4.9 GHz as a daily driver) to a i7-6800K (even at the mild 4.0 GHz overclock I have on it now) is pretty significant. Was I kind of hesitant going from 8-cores, down back to 6? Yes. Do I regret? Not really, no, because the performance jump is pretty friggin' huge still.

 

Kaby Lake on LGA 1151 still has an upgrade path; 9th generation will be on the existing platform. The "mainstream" 8-core may only work on Z390, and not the existing Z370. We don't know until closer to launch.

 

 

2) The number of PCI-E lanes may be a consideration, but you also have to look at things at a different viewpoint, too. Looking at how AMD Crossfire and nVidia SLi has changed recently, more than 2-GPU configurations may be dropped completely. nVidia dropped 3-way and 4-way SLI support on their top-tier GTX 1080 and 1080 Ti; I can see AMD dong the same with the upcoming generation of GPUs, for a few reasons:

• Performance scaling beyond 2-GPUs starts to see diminishing returns; how much performance does a third or fourth GPU add compared to 1 or 2 GPUs?
• Compatibility with software/games; it's an extra obstacle for developer (both game and driver) to add support for multi-GPU configurations, especially 3+ GPUs
  • One game that comes to mind...Rainbow Six Siege -- AMD never implement Crossfire support for it  (hence one of my R9 Fury's sits idle)

Two GPUs using 8 PCI-E 3.0 (or 4.0 later on) lanes  each will not cause any major bottlenecks, if any at all.

 

 

I suggested the i7-8700K again, is because of the clock frequency it is capable of reaching.

For games that cannot take advantage of the extra cores, the higher frequency will be the determining factor.

A i7-8700K coming in at 5.0 GHz will outperform a 140W TDP i9-7900X whose only able to pull a max 4.4 GHz overclock.

 

You mentioned this system is used primarily for gaming, so I don't see the reason for go for some 12-core 16-core set-up.

Would the extra cost be worth it?

It wouldn't be 1000 EUROs for a build.

 

 

Okay, even if you go the i7-7820X route, are are still only limited to 28 PCI-E lanes; you are going to need to step up to a i7-9200X minimum to get more than 28 PCI-E lanes.

 

It many situations, the mid - to - mid-high segment of motherboards are only configured to 2-way GPU setups on X299. Look at how the PCI-E lanes are laid out on the motherboard, and the PCI-E lane configurations for 16, 28, and 44 lane CPUs.

ASUS: https://www.asus.com/microsite/mb/cross/X299/

Gigabyte: https://www.gigabyte.com/Comparison/Result/2?pids=6381,6440

AsRock: https://www.asrock.com/mb/compare.asp?Models=X299 Taichi XE,X299 Killer SLI/ac,Fatal1ty X299 Professional Gaming i9 XE

 

For three-way GPU support, you are gong to use the 1st slot + 3rd slot + very bottom slot -- regardless of 28 or 44-lane CPU.

Bottom slot, as in the one right over the USB headers, front panel connections, etc.

 

Spoiler

 

IMO, how the 3rd GPU slot on more recent motherboards designs really piss me off on how its using the very bottom slot...where you'll have no space between the GPU and PSU -- plus, because of this, it wont be compatible with cards thicker than 2 slots.

 

One of the motherboard requirements I needed to triple-check back when I did have, or plans, for a 3-way GPU setup.

The last three motherboards I have used all use the 2nd-to-last PCI-E slot for the 3rd GPU...

• ASUS ROG Crosshair IV Formula
• ASUS ROG Crosshair V Formula
• ASUS X99 Deluxe II

 

 

[Lawliet93]

I just moved from my i5 2500k to an i7 3770k and I plan to delid it and overclock it, because I was told it can handle 4,8 GHz. If your combo can do, what you want it to do, than there is no need to upgrade. People use the word "bottleneck" to much without even properly understanding it, so don't worry. I wouldn't move to the 8700k in your case, because the underlying architecture has been used in three generations already (skylake, kaby Lake and coffee lake use the same architecture without any ipc increase) so yeah, have fun with your x79 pc. 

[mihapiha]

On 28.1.2018 at 4:41 PM, David89 said:

I kind of disagree with everything said in this thread Reasons why are as following:

 

• Gaming at 4K with two 1080s will STILL be a GPU Bottleneck. Every Benchmark i have seen, at 4k with a 1080ti, there is simply no difference.
• Ryzen+, 2 and 3 have been announced. Since Ryzen is an SOC, Motherboard doesn't make much difference any more. (Except DDR5) So switching from Ryzen to Ryzen+ or 2 on an X370 Board will still be a huge performance benefit.
• There are a number of reviews out there, that measure time under 30 FPS for any given CPU. Interestingly enough, on Anandtech the 8700K was actually pretty bad and had very high numbers of frames under 30 FPS. Interestingly enough, at release Ryzen was absolute crap in ROTR, even at 4K. With the 8700K review from Anandtech, Ryzen was at the top of the list - so either Anandtech "tuned" the results (which i highly doubt), or the updates helped pretty damn well. Oh and the 7700K has lost a few %.
• Biggest reason why for me is: Bang for the buck. For me personally i could not justify buying in to a platform, that has absolutely no upgrade path.

But - that is just my Opinion, based on the Reviews I've read.

In the end, the simple answer to the Question "When is a 4930K outdated" is: When you feel like it is. You have to do some testing for yourself, watch how the GPUs are loaded and so on.

 

I appreciate the info. 

 

I must admit that I am trying to find reasons as an enthusiast to go back to the AMD system, which I haven't used since the first Core2Duo came out. It sucks so much though, that for gaming Intel is still king because of the higher clock speeds. Also, I feel my kick ass water cooling be really wasted cooling a Ryzen ATM. 

 

My AMD consideration actually was a TR4 build using the 1900X which is the 8-core CPU... But I cannot get myself to do it. In the benchmarks with the low clocks, I'd barely notice a difference. Hopefully with a Ryzen+, Ryzen 2 and a newer Threadripper clocking to 4.5 GHz it would be easier to justify. I haven't found a review yet demonstrating whether it's best to disable SMP on a Threadripper for gaming. I figure at 8 or 12 cores, you really don't need the double up the threads for gaming...

 

16 hours ago, -rascal- said:

 

1)

You cannot simply look at core count to determine the performance of a CPU. Back then, I upgraded from a 6-core AMD Phenom II X 1090T, to an "8-core" FX-8350...and eventually switched over to a 6-core i7-6800K. The difference, at a gaming stand-point, from a FX-8350 (4.8 / 4.9 GHz as a daily driver) to a i7-6800K (even at the mild 4.0 GHz overclock I have on it now) is pretty significant. Was I kind of hesitant going from 8-cores, down back to 6? Yes. Do I regret? Not really, no, because the performance jump is pretty friggin' huge still.

 

Kaby Lake on LGA 1151 still has an upgrade path; 9th generation will be on the existing platform. The "mainstream" 8-core may only work on Z390, and not the existing Z370. We don't know until closer to launch.

 

 

2) The number of PCI-E lanes may be a consideration, but you also have to look at things at a different viewpoint, too. Looking at how AMD Crossfire and nVidia SLi has changed recently, more than 2-GPU configurations may be dropped completely. nVidia dropped 3-way and 4-way SLI support on their top-tier GTX 1080 and 1080 Ti; I can see AMD dong the same with the upcoming generation of GPUs, for a few reasons:

• Performance scaling beyond 2-GPUs starts to see diminishing returns; how much performance does a third or fourth GPU add compared to 1 or 2 GPUs?
• Compatibility with software/games; it's an extra obstacle for developer (both game and driver) to add support for multi-GPU configurations, especially 3+ GPUs
  • One game that comes to mind...Rainbow Six Siege -- AMD never implement Crossfire support for it  (hence one of my R9 Fury's sits idle)

Two GPUs using 8 PCI-E 3.0 (or 4.0 later on) lanes  each will not cause any major bottlenecks, if any at all.

 

 

I suggested the i7-8700K again, is because of the clock frequency it is capable of reaching.

For games that cannot take advantage of the extra cores, the higher frequency will be the determining factor.

A i7-8700K coming in at 5.0 GHz will outperform a 140W TDP i9-7900X whose only able to pull a max 4.4 GHz overclock.

 

You mentioned this system is used primarily for gaming, so I don't see the reason for go for some 12-core 16-core set-up.

Would the extra cost be worth it?

It wouldn't be 1000 EUROs for a build.

 

 

Okay, even if you go the i7-7820X route, are are still only limited to 28 PCI-E lanes; you are going to need to step up to a i7-9200X minimum to get more than 28 PCI-E lanes.

 

It many situations, the mid - to - mid-high segment of motherboards are only configured to 2-way GPU setups on X299. Look at how the PCI-E lanes are laid out on the motherboard, and the PCI-E lane configurations for 16, 28, and 44 lane CPUs.

ASUS: https://www.asus.com/microsite/mb/cross/X299/

Gigabyte: https://www.gigabyte.com/Comparison/Result/2?pids=6381,6440

AsRock: https://www.asrock.com/mb/compare.asp?Models=X299 Taichi XE,X299 Killer SLI/ac,Fatal1ty X299 Professional Gaming i9 XE

 

For three-way GPU support, you are gong to use the 1st slot + 3rd slot + very bottom slot -- regardless of 28 or 44-lane CPU.

Bottom slot, as in the one right over the USB headers, front panel connections, etc.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

IMO, how the 3rd GPU slot on more recent motherboards designs really piss me off on how its using the very bottom slot...where you'll have no space between the GPU and PSU -- plus, because of this, it wont be compatible with cards thicker than 2 slots.

 

One of the motherboard requirements I needed to triple-check back when I did have, or plans, for a 3-way GPU setup.

The last three motherboards I have used all use the 2nd-to-last PCI-E slot for the 3rd GPU...

• ASUS ROG Crosshair IV Formula
• ASUS ROG Crosshair V Formula
• ASUS X99 Deluxe II

 

 

 

going from a Piledriver architecture (FX-8350) to Skylake (i7-6800k) is a major upgrade; however I don't think that coming off Ivy-Bridge is that much of an upgrade, unless I could afford the 7900X which seems like such a waste of money for Gaming, just so I could get the 44-lane CPU...

 

I also don't trust Intel to just come out with a new CPU gen without a new chipset forcing users to switch MBs too. That would be actually a small miracle. I know Crossfire/SLI are going out of fashion, but I still love it. If I have nothing better to do, I'd leave one or a couple of the GPUs mining or folding@home. The look of a few graphic cards is just priceless IMO. One of my favorite builds I ever had was the 3-way GTX 480 + GTX 460 for PhysX build I had years ago. I was a disaster to use on day to day bases, but I still like looking at the pictures of it. 

 

Isn't that amazing? 

 

 

Totally useless or justifiable and probably more stuttery than most other systems, but looking at it next to you on a desk was the high light. 

 

I just cannot imagine using one card and it really bugs me, that this trend is catching on. Gaming on 4k a second 1080 is actually quite beneficial, especially if supported properly. 

 

I know of the MB layout issue. I was looking at the carefully as it would require me to purchase a new HB-Bridge... I use the Corsair 900D so the fact that the layout is a little messed up isn't the main issue. The case does have room for 10 slots. The more annoying is the issue that the graphic cards wouldn't be aligned and that might make it look horrible. So far I always bought the high end motherboard every time, because you generally don't upgrade the MB on regular bases. On X299 I was looking at the Rampage VI Extreme. 

 

14 hours ago, Lawliet93 said:

I just moved from my i5 2500k to an i7 3770k and I plan to delid it and overclock it, because I was told it can handle 4,8 GHz. If your combo can do, what you want it to do, than there is no need to upgrade. People use the word "bottleneck" to much without even properly understanding it, so don't worry. I wouldn't move to the 8700k in your case, because the underlying architecture has been used in three generations already (skylake, kaby Lake and coffee lake use the same architecture without any ipc increase) so yeah, have fun with your x79 pc. 

 

Yeah. It is not the performance making me want to move, it's its age. I fear for my crappy little overclocker and outdated hardware just dying on me and then getting a headache which could be avoided. I really hope the thing can hang on for a few more months without issues, so I can upgrade to something much more reasonable...

[-rascal-]

58 minutes ago, mihapiha said:

 

I appreciate the info. 

 

I must admit that I am trying to find reasons as an enthusiast to go back to the AMD system, which I haven't used since the first Core2Duo came out. It sucks so much though, that for gaming Intel is still king because of the higher clock speeds. Also, I feel my kick ass water cooling be really wasted cooling a Ryzen ATM. 

 

My AMD consideration actually was a TR4 build using the 1900X which is the 8-core CPU... But I cannot get myself to do it. In the benchmarks with the low clocks, I'd barely notice a difference. Hopefully with a Ryzen+, Ryzen 2 and a newer Threadripper clocking to 4.5 GHz it would be easier to justify. I haven't found a review yet demonstrating whether it's best to disable SMP on a Threadripper for gaming. I figure at 8 or 12 cores, you really don't need the double up the threads for gaming...

 

 

going from a Piledriver architecture (FX-8350) to Skylake (i7-6800k) is a major upgrade; however I don't think that coming off Ivy-Bridge is that much of an upgrade, unless I could afford the 7900X which seems like such a waste of money for Gaming, just so I could get the 44-lane CPU...

 

I also don't trust Intel to just come out with a new CPU gen without a new chipset forcing users to switch MBs too. That would be actually a small miracle. I know Crossfire/SLI are going out of fashion, but I still love it. If I have nothing better to do, I'd leave one or a couple of the GPUs mining or folding@home. The look of a few graphic cards is just priceless IMO. One of my favorite builds I ever had was the 3-way GTX 480 + GTX 460 for PhysX build I had years ago. I was a disaster to use on day to day bases, but I still like looking at the pictures of it. 

 

Isn't that amazing? 

 

 

Totally useless or justifiable and probably more stuttery than most other systems, but looking at it next to you on a desk was the high light. 

 

I just cannot imagine using one card and it really bugs me, that this trend is catching on. Gaming on 4k a second 1080 is actually quite beneficial, especially if supported properly. 

 

I know of the MB layout issue. I was looking at the carefully as it would require me to purchase a new HB-Bridge... I use the Corsair 900D so the fact that the layout is a little messed up isn't the main issue. The case does have room for 10 slots. The more annoying is the issue that the graphic cards wouldn't be aligned and that might make it look horrible. So far I always bought the high end motherboard every time, because you generally don't upgrade the MB on regular bases. On X299 I was looking at the Rampage VI Extreme. 

 

 

Yeah. It is not the performance making me want to move, it's its age. I fear for my crappy little overclocker and outdated hardware just dying on me and then getting a headache which could be avoided. I really hope the thing can hang on for a few more months without issues, so I can upgrade to something much more reasonable...

 

If the architecture is not a major upgrade (e.g. revision), then chipset/socket change is not necessary.

For example, Skylake and Kaby Lake both worked on Z170 and Z270.

That said, rumors are, if you want a 8-core 9th generation "mainstream" chip, you'll need to hop over to Z390...Z370 only supports up to 6-cores (e.g. like the i7-8700K).

 

I do agree, the look of a multi-GPU configuration is pretty amazing, especially with a custom water loop, lighting, etc.

(Reason why I had a 3x Radeon HD 5850...even though it added like +10% performance...and  2x HD 7970 + HD 7950 for a while ).

 

The four waterblocks do look very nice.

It all just...lines up.

 

Regardless, if you are going to make the move to X299, or TR4, just wait a few more months before making the leap.

Hopefully, but then, DRAM prices might be a little better (fingers crossed), and the new chips coming out will affect the prices of current CPUs / motherboards to the consumer's favor.

[bimmerman]

I wouldn't worry about it. My X5675 at 4.5-4.7GHz can play anything I throw at it, with the limitation being my GPU (2x r9 290) not CPU power. Current GPU and RAM pricing being what it is has reprioritized my spending this year, so my situation is not likely to change.

 

Is your system cutting edge? No. Is it inadequate to game on? Definitely not. If mine's fine, yours is definitely fine.

[dragonhart6505]

Just ask yourself these quick questions:

1) if you game on it, does it perform well enough for your standard in newer/your favorite titles?

2) while using it for projects or daily tasks, does it feel slow or take long to load applications?

3) can you afford a new system, better specs and the time to out it together at this moment or plan to do so in the near future?

 

If the answer to any of these questions is no then the system is still relevant TO YOU, which is truly the only important. It's not outdated if it still holds up to your standards, you being literally the only one on this forum who uses it, sees it on the daily and maintains its operation (in 99% of cases)

[Zeitec]

I would hold off until Zen+ and get a 2700. 

[mihapiha]

16 hours ago, dragonhart6505 said:

Just ask yourself these quick questions:

1) if you game on it, does it perform well enough for your standard in newer/your favorite titles?

2) while using it for projects or daily tasks, does it feel slow or take long to load applications?

3) can you afford a new system, better specs and the time to out it together at this moment or plan to do so in the near future?

 

If the answer to any of these questions is no then the system is still relevant TO YOU, which is truly the only important. It's not outdated if it still holds up to your standards, you being literally the only one on this forum who uses it, sees it on the daily and maintains its operation (in 99% of cases)

 

 

Rather than answering those questions, I seem to have run into some issues with my rig. It just shuts off at a random point and won't post without a CMOS reset. 

 

And I'm really worried now because I put everything into stock and let it run in the BIOS and I just watched if the temperatures went up. Everything remained cool, but the system shut off again. The fan connected to the MB won't start spinning without the CMOS reset and it won't even post an error message. 

 

My fear came true it appears. My system is getting old and the danger of it just dying on me increased since yesterday dramatically. I am stress-testing right now with the memory, hoping that a faulty memory module might cause the issue, but it doesn't appear to be the case. 

 

The only other thing I could test later today, is using secondary 24-pin and 8 pin cables for the MB. But if that doesn't help I will have to buy a replacement MB/CPU and memory kit...

 

I was really hoping to wait for the next gen CPUs and MB's, but it doesn't appear that I will be this fortunate.

If this those happen, it seems I will be forced to go with my initial idea of:

 

- Asus ROG Strix X299-E Gaming

- Corsair Vengeance RGB DDR4-3200 MHz 32GB

- EK Water Blocks EK-FB Asus Strix X299-E RGB Monoblock

- EVGA Pro SLI-HB-Bridge, 60 mm (because of the new MB layout of the PCe slots)

- Intel Core i7-7820X, 8x 3.6 GHz

 

 

Really the only thing I'm not sure about is whether I should invest more into that system and get a Core i9-7900X to avoid any lane issues. Also for the same money of the 7900X I could go with a Core i7-7820X @ 4.9 GHz from Der8auer which is pretested....

  

 

[Mattias Edeslatt]

If you have the funding, go ahed. You obviously do CPU and core intensive tasks on your computer so it makes sense.

 

Otherwise buy a new or used Z97 MB and carry on and save up som more for the "big" upgrade.

[CDHoward]

All I see here are weary, tired, Intel enthusiast old schoolers trying to ignore the modern, shimmering, neutron-star powered AMD wall bearing down on them.

 

Disclaimer: AMD Fanboi.

[CDHoward]

(Mispress. Quoted my own comment due to overworked phone)

[mihapiha]

29 minutes ago, Mattias Edeslatt said:

If you have the funding, go ahed. You obviously do CPU and core intensive tasks on your computer so it makes sense.

 

Otherwise buy a new or used Z97 MB and carry on and save up som more for the "big" upgrade.

 

I haven't considered the Z97 option. Maybe worth the smaller investment, because I'd only need MB+CPU and no memory. I'll look into that.

 

24 minutes ago, CDHoward said:

All I see here are weary, tired, Intel enthusiast old schoolers trying to ignore the modern, shimmering, neutron-star powered AMD wall bearing down on them.

 

Disclaimer: AMD Fanboi.

That does sound very AMD Fanboy-ish indeed. I am looking at reasons how to justify AMD, because I do like what the Ryzen has done for AMD and competition is always good. Unfortunately, due to the lower clock-speeds, specifically for gaming in the high-end sector, I cannot justify investing more money into a TR4 build, if a Core i7-7820X, 8x 3.6 GHz is basically just as expensive of a setup, however better for gaming...

[PSUGuru]

It’s still a solid CPU and will handle most games thrown at it. Due to how quickly we’re encroaching upon the limitations of Moore’s law, I think it’ll last a few more generations. But since octa cores are becoming mainstream, game developers may decide to utilize more cores. So there’s that to consider.

[CDHoward]

4 hours ago, mihapiha said:

 

I haven't considered the Z97 option. Maybe worth the smaller investment, because I'd only need MB+CPU and no memory. I'll look into that.

 

That does sound very AMD Fanboy-ish indeed. I am looking at reasons how to justify AMD, because I do like what the Ryzen has done for AMD and competition is always good. Unfortunately, due to the lower clock-speeds, specifically for gaming in the high-end sector, I cannot justify investing more money into a TR4 build, if a Core i7-7820X, 8x 3.6 GHz is basically just as expensive of a setup, however better for gaming...

Really sorry for being so rude, mate.

[dragonhart6505]

6 hours ago, CDHoward said:

Disclaimer: AMD Fanboi.

Phenom II user...can relate

[dragonhart6505]

7 hours ago, mihapiha said:

 

 

Rather than answering those questions, I seem to have run into some issues with my rig. It just shuts off at a random point and won't post without a CMOS reset. 

 

And I'm really worried now because I put everything into stock and let it run in the BIOS and I just watched if the temperatures went up. Everything remained cool, but the system shut off again. The fan connected to the MB won't start spinning without the CMOS reset and it won't even post an error message. 

 

My fear came true it appears. My system is getting old and the danger of it just dying on me increased since yesterday dramatically. I am stress-testing right now with the memory, hoping that a faulty memory module might cause the issue, but it doesn't appear to be the case. 

 

The only other thing I could test later today, is using secondary 24-pin and 8 pin cables for the MB. But if that doesn't help I will have to buy a replacement MB/CPU and memory kit...

 

I was really hoping to wait for the next gen CPUs and MB's, but it doesn't appear that I will be this fortunate.

If this those happen, it seems I will be forced to go with my initial idea of:

 

- Asus ROG Strix X299-E Gaming

- Corsair Vengeance RGB DDR4-3200 MHz 32GB

- EK Water Blocks EK-FB Asus Strix X299-E RGB Monoblock

- EVGA Pro SLI-HB-Bridge, 60 mm (because of the new MB layout of the PCe slots)

- Intel Core i7-7820X, 8x 3.6 GHz

 

 

Really the only thing I'm not sure about is whether I should invest more into that system and get a Core i9-7900X to avoid any lane issues. Also for the same money of the 7900X I could go with a Core i7-7820X @ 4.9 GHz from Der8auer which is pretested....

  

 

You basically did answer the questions XD. But you didn't outline the current issues you're experiencing. Maybe this is a recent development since OPing?

 

In whatever case it sounds like you have the funds to upgrade so...do it. Our opinions are just that, opinions. If you can hands on another board to make sure the CPU isn't the issue I'd do that as well. They're pretty cheap used. Set it aside for a light workstation/gaming/home theater rig. Build the new system for your DD and be done.

Honestly if you've the $1k for a CPU alone, sounds like you could've upgraded long ago and only just thought maybe it was finally time to catch up with the times. But i9 on the other hand, even Linus was less than impressed and that's saying something. Go 8700k or high core Xeon.

[mihapiha]

8 hours ago, dragonhart6505 said:

You basically did answer the questions XD. But you didn't outline the current issues you're experiencing. Maybe this is a recent development since OPing?

 

In whatever case it sounds like you have the funds to upgrade so...do it. Our opinions are just that, opinions. If you can hands on another board to make sure the CPU isn't the issue I'd do that as well. They're pretty cheap used. Set it aside for a light workstation/gaming/home theater rig. Build the new system for your DD and be done.

Honestly if you've the $1k for a CPU alone, sounds like you could've upgraded long ago and only just thought maybe it was finally time to catch up with the times. But i9 on the other hand, even Linus was less than impressed and that's saying something. Go 8700k or high core Xeon.

Opinions of others are much appreciated, because it makes you consider other options otherwise ignored.

 

It indeed is a very recent development. I had the issue of my system crashing randomly for a couple of days to three days, however not realising it being a development the first couple of times it happened every 6 to 8 hours. Yesterday it was really bad though, with the system crashing every 20 minutes, independent of load. So I started trouble shooting and looking for the cause of that issue. I still have my fingers crossed that I may have found the issue. The 24-Pin cable seems to have an issue. I ordered (years ago) the Corsair slaved modular cables for my Corsair AX 1200i PSU, so I still have the original 24-pin cable. With the original cable, there are no more crashes ... or at least none since yesterday. 

 

Indeed, I tend to upgrade my system every couple to three years, and I have set the money to do that once again, however, I have the hardest time finding something worth upgrading to. Since January 2014 my core components remain unchanged, which for me is really a long time. I initially started this topic in the hopes of finding a solution or getting a suggestion which may intrigue me. I still thing my computer parts are worth some money and I thought I could resell them for somewhat decent amount of money before they die on me. So the last few days have been really scary, because I it appeared as if I wouldn't have been able to resell them either...

[dragonhart6505]

1 hour ago, mihapiha said:

Opinions of others are much appreciated, because it makes you consider other options otherwise ignored.

 

It indeed is a very recent development. I had the issue of my system crashing randomly for a couple of days to three days, however not realising it being a development the first couple of times it happened every 6 to 8 hours. Yesterday it was really bad though, with the system crashing every 20 minutes, independent of load. So I started trouble shooting and looking for the cause of that issue. I still have my fingers crossed that I may have found the issue. The 24-Pin cable seems to have an issue. I ordered (years ago) the Corsair slaved modular cables for my Corsair AX 1200i PSU, so I still have the original 24-pin cable. With the original cable, there are no more crashes ... or at least none since yesterday. 

 

Indeed, I tend to upgrade my system every couple to three years, and I have set the money to do that once again, however, I have the hardest time finding something worth upgrading to. Since January 2014 my core components remain unchanged, which for me is really a long time. I initially started this topic in the hopes of finding a solution or getting a suggestion which may intrigue me. I still thing my computer parts are worth some money and I thought I could resell them for somewhat decent amount of money before they die on me. So the last few days have been really scary, because I it appeared as if I wouldn't have been able to resell them either...

Worst comes to worst...I'm looking for upgrades in the next month or so, so you've got an interested buyer already XD. What can I get out of it for $400? Lmao

[mihapiha]

6 minutes ago, dragonhart6505 said:

Worst comes to worst...I'm looking for upgrades in the next month or so, so you've got an interested buyer already XD. What can I get out of it for $400? Lmao

Thanks for the offer, but I don't think it's wise to ship across the pond.  

Also the plan was to sell it to my sister so she'd use it as a secondary computer. But yeah, I told her €400 for MB, CPU and memory. 

 

I'm just so relieved that my PC seems to still be running without crashing....

 

 

[dragonhart6505]

5 hours ago, mihapiha said:

Thanks for the offer, but I don't think it's wise to ship across the pond.  

Also the plan was to sell it to my sister so she'd use it as a secondary computer. But yeah, I told her €400 for MB, CPU and memory. 

 

I'm just so relieved that my PC seems to still be running without crashing....

 

 

Electrical parts wear out fairly commonly. You wouldn't think about it unless you were familiar with it, but wiring can either short or fail or just plain die after hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cycles.

Glad you're sorted mate! Hope things stay running for ya

[Tiberiusisgame]

On 1/29/2018 at 2:42 PM, mihapiha said:

 

That's a beautiful system, especially if you built it when 480's were the card to have, 8 years ago. I'll bet that thing was quite the spaceheater at 300 Watts per 480 and what, around 180 for the 460? Glorious.

[mihapiha]

1 hour ago, dragonhart6505 said:

Electrical parts wear out fairly commonly. You wouldn't think about it unless you were familiar with it, but wiring can either short or fail or just plain die after hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cycles.

Glad you're sorted mate! Hope things stay running for ya

I didn't know that the cables could die on me. But because the fan connected to the MB didn't spinn and it didn't post, I suspected a short circuit somewhere. Luckily I had a spare 24-pin cable to test my theory, and even luckier that it actually proved to be the reason for my instability and merely replacing it, did the trick.

 

But the scare was legit, and I have to have a solid plan A in place if that thing actually dies on me. 

1 hour ago, Tiberiusisgame said:

That's a beautiful system, especially if you built it when 480's were the card to have, 8 years ago. I'll bet that thing was quite the spaceheater at 300 Watts per 480 and what, around 180 for the 460? Glorious.

Thanks for the compliments. I did build it back then. I build that thing in 2009/10 because it went through a few evolutions... The finished result looked amazing, but you had to pick the angle... I didn't have sleeved cables. So I bought extensions. I had also 3x Radeon HD5870 before switching to the GTX 480s. The initial idea was using 2 loops with a red loop for the AMD cards and a blue loop for the Intel CPU, which was the weirdest looking tube-mess I ever had...

 

 

It then improved somewhat with the graphic cards and with all blue tubing, and the new GPUs. But still it didn't look that amazing from the outside in:

 

 

I also added a MORA radiator in order to cool the graphic cards which sits behind the case. But if I was really careful with the angle of my camera I could an image worth looking at:

 

 

 

But that rig did teach me a lot and I was much cleaner the next try  I took my time building the computer which core components I am now planing to replace. I must have had the case and most of the water cooling quite a few months before buying MB or anything like that. I wanted it to be as perfect as I can can get it done, and it is still performing well, that's why I find it quite hard taking it apart and replacing it with something if it isn't going to kick ass. 

 

The water cooling on my current rig also cost about 1.000 EUR, so I feel a little weird putting some mid range stuff in there, which won't be able to take advantage of its two monsta 80 mm tick 480 radiators. That's why I'm debating (with people and myself) what to get. I feel like many people can't use a X299 and properly overclock it without cooling issues and the same is true with TR4. On the other hand an 8700k? It feels odd putting that much cooling for that as it's heat spreader is just crappy and it won't overclock past a certain voltage independent on the cooling, unless you change the thermal paste under neath and void your warranty...

 

 

[David89]

On 1/30/2018 at 6:44 PM, mihapiha said:

That does sound very AMD Fanboy-ish indeed. I am looking at reasons how to justify AMD, because I do like what the Ryzen has done for AMD and competition is always good. Unfortunately, due to the lower clock-speeds, specifically for gaming in the high-end sector, I cannot justify investing more money into a TR4 build, if a Core i7-7820X, 8x 3.6 GHz is basically just as expensive of a setup, however better for gaming...

By 5%.

 

As i said, the biggest reason to go TR/Ryzen is because you can simply upgrade, probably until Ryzen 4 comes out. TR4 and AM4 are just sockets, bot could run without the Chipset, because both are SOCs.

 

And lets be honest: Unless you are gaming at 720p or 1080p - there is simply no difference. Even at 1440p the difference is minute to say the least. At 4k it simply isn't there anymore. Also, the 99 Percentile FPS numbers are better or on par with the Intel for TR and Ryzen. Yes, they may not have the "leading" AVG Fps numbers, but who cares if the game has micro stutters? (although, with a four way SLI System, i don't think you'll notice them..)

Apart from that, in pretty much every Benchmark i've seen, the 7820X is slower than any TR, except Project Cars 2. But even there it's ~ 10%.

 

Considering what Intel has done over the last few Weeks/Months/Years, the question is: Do you have other means to justify buying Intel again, EXCEPT Gaming?

[mihapiha]

1 hour ago, David89 said:

By 5%.

 

As i said, the biggest reason to go TR/Ryzen is because you can simply upgrade, probably until Ryzen 4 comes out. TR4 and AM4 are just sockets, bot could run without the Chipset, because both are SOCs.

 

And lets be honest: Unless you are gaming at 720p or 1080p - there is simply no difference. Even at 1440p the difference is minute to say the least. At 4k it simply isn't there anymore. Also, the 99 Percentile FPS numbers are better or on par with the Intel for TR and Ryzen. Yes, they may not have the "leading" AVG Fps numbers, but who cares if the game has micro stutters? (although, with a four way SLI System, i don't think you'll notice them..)

Apart from that, in pretty much every Benchmark i've seen, the 7820X is slower than any TR, except Project Cars 2. But even there it's ~ 10%.

 

Considering what Intel has done over the last few Weeks/Months/Years, the question is: Do you have other means to justify buying Intel again, EXCEPT Gaming?

Good points. Actually I don't have too many reasons apart form Gaming. And there is hardly anything I do which takes advantage of my system other than gaming. I don't do editing or rendering or anything like that. For the productivity crap I do, I couldn't tell the difference between a 4 core and a 12 core CPU. 

 

The benchmark which made me consider Intel over AMD was Civ 6: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-threadripper-1950x-cpu,5167-5.html

My current CPU needs about 21 seconds for that AI Benchmark. 19 if I turn off HT. That game loves high frequencies apparently, and the idea was getting a very capable CPU and because I hardly ever need more than 8 cores for gaming, I'd deactivate HT. A Core i7-7820X could be overclocked past 4.5 GHz with my cooling (I hope) and with HT off I could improve the round time from 21 down to around 15 seconds, which would be nearly 30% faster. And that does feel like money well spend and me actually noticing a difference in gameplay.

 

The TR4 CPUs are at around the 20 seconds to maybe 18 second mark with SMT turned off and an overclock around the 4 GHz, which doesn't really make it that much of an improvement. However it would be so nice to switch to a TR4...

 

Indeed the Ryzen 2 and especially newer Threadripper generation will run on that MB, so I could change parts much more easily. Also the TR4 has no PCIe lane limitations, which is something Intel just doesn't want to provide unless you pay premium money. That is the big big plus point for any AMD rig. But I'd also have to worry about the possibility that the newer Gen will still be quite a few 100 MHz behind Intel, which really sucks. And who knows whether these CPUs (which are high-end) will be resellable in a few months time when the newer gen comes out. If you spend premium money on a MB would you buy a cheap used CPU?

 

Ideally My rig will hold up for a few more months, but I am legit torn between the two systems and I cannot find the right solution. 

 

I really don't play any other game that utilises the processor that much. I only know that No Man's Sky, which I also play on a regular bases (even after +300h) won't run stutter-free with HT turned off. That means 6 cores + 2 GPUs for a game that poorly optimized is also no good, and I think it will benefit form additional cores.

 

I tell you if I could push the AMD CPUs to 4.2 GHz to 4.5 GHz than I'd absolutely favor the AMD TR4 over Intel. With the short-comings of AMD in terms of OC potential I am not sure if an TR4 would be justified right now.