beginner First NAS build help

[Melfox]

I suppose I should mention that this is the first time I will be building my own system. Previous experience extends to replacing a HD and RAM in an old MacBook Pro. Current experience is just online articles and youtube videos (mainly LTT/TQ). I am planning to build a NAS to be used both as a Plex media server and as a jumping off point for future NAS expansion. Therefore, my questions are sort of 2-fold. On the one hand, I would appreciate any assistance/advice on my hardware choices. On the other hand, I'm not sure my theories about how the equipment is used are sound so I would appreciate any corrections on those as well.

 

My desire for a NAS comes from the 1TB SSD in my MacBook Pro being almost completely full for the last 2 years along with wanting to consolidate the 9 external drives I have totaling about 13TB scattered around my house with lots of unused space and duplicate files.

 

First things first, here is what I came up with from PC Part Picker. My desired budget is less than $2000 USD and because of my inexperience, I'd rather buy new and cut down on the things that could go wrong. I'll explain my thought process for some of these:

 

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz Turbo Up to 4.0GHz 6-Core Processor  ($203.43 @ Amazon)

-Looking for room to expand in the future. Was looking at an i3-7350K, but this is only $35USD more expensive and has 4 more cores and double the total score. For now I want for 3+ streams in Plex. From what I've read online, this is way overkill for that (score of ~6000 required for 3 transcoded streams vs. 11000 for the i5). Is there anything that will hurt me with this change if I am willing to pay the extra $35?
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-L9i 33.8 CFM CPU Cooler  ($38.69 @ OutletPC) 

-Internet says stock cooler should be fine. Is that true with this (presumably small) load?
Motherboard: ASRock - H270 Pro4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($88.89 @ OutletPC) 

-... It had 6xSATAIII ports and seemed relatively inexpensive
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($184.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Kingston - A400 480GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($144.98 @ Amazon) 

-Cache drive maybe? I probably won't be changing things often enough to be effected by a failure prior to migration.
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($132.18 @ OutletPC) 
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($132.18 @ OutletPC) 
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($132.18 @ OutletPC) 
Storage: Western Digital - Red 4TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($132.18 @ OutletPC) 

-Plan to run in single parity in UnRAID
Case: Cooler Master - HAF 912 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($59.99 @ B&H) 
Power Supply: Corsair - CXM 550W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($59.99 @ Amazon) 

-Again, looking for a combo of room to grow (currently 275W estimate)/good product/inexpensive
Case Fan: Noctua - NF-F12 PWM 55.0 CFM  120mm Fan  ($19.39 @ OutletPC) 
Case Fan: Noctua - NF-F12 PWM 55.0 CFM  120mm Fan  ($19.39 @ OutletPC) 

-The case comes with 2x120mm fans. Is there a noticeable improvement from stock to Noctua?
Total: $1348.92USD
 

I initially plan to use UnRAID instead of FreeNAS due to the expandability and ability to mix drive sizes. I also plan to get an adapter to put an internal thumb drive in with the OS on it. Probably use the USB-3 header since the case doesn't have a USB 3 port. It will be connected to my Airport Extreme router via CAT-6 cable I ran through my wall and I plan to access it wirelessly via a MacBook Pro/iOS devices/game consoles or AppleTV (if Plex is available for them). Are there any issues with my part choices/reasoning/expectations?

 

For the second part, down the road I would like to expand out to a Media Server accessible from off my home network, a backup server (for my laptop and another computer I may make down the line), and an individual file server (iPhoto Libraries, individual files, etc). I want them to all have their own drives associated so I can think of them as 3 completely separate disk images. Is this something I would be able to do on a single system by defining User Shares/Sharedrives on more drives through UnRAID or would I need to make a different system for each use? Can I grow into that using the parts I picked and adding more drives and a bigger case/rack mount case? Similarly, if I expand with more drives, how would I power them all? The power supply seems to barely have enough connections for what I'm planning on now. There seem to be at least SATAIII expansion cards for the data connections. I've seen rack mount cases with a backplane that seems to have few power connections. I don't really know what a backplane is, but is that something I could plug all of the drives into and use only a few power and data cables from there to the motherboard?

 

I apologize for the long post from an ignorant newbie, but I greatly appreciate any assistance that could be provided.

[79wjd]

The stock cooler would be fine, you likely wouldn't benefit from a cache drive, and the stock fans should be fine.

 

although I'd go with an R5 1600 instead. I'd also personally look at a server motherboard that has some kind of remote management just for the sake of convenience (e.g. I can connect to my server while it's powered off and turn it on/interact with the bios/the OS once it boots just by the IP address). These server motherboards are also likely to have onboard graphics too. I'm not sure if there are any Ryzen boards with remote management though. 

 

You can buy molex to sata adapter chains, so the PSU won't be the limiting factor. Physical space will be what limits you. The case you chose is limited to seven 3.5" drives and three to five more if you get a 5.25" to 3.5" adapter. 

[Melfox]

Is the remote access a built in capability to the motherboard or is it something that requires another program installed to the OS or another piece of equipment? Where would I look for these motherboards? Thanks for the advice.

[79wjd]

5 minutes ago, Melfox said:

Is the remote access a built in capability to the motherboard or is it something that requires another program installed to the OS or another piece of equipment? Where would I look for these motherboards? Thanks for the advice.

It's something built into the motherboard -- anything at a software level wouldn't be able to turn the computer on/enter and control the bios/etc... For example, on Supermicro boards it's called IPMI. It's not a necessity, but I wouldn't personally touch a board for my NAS that doesn't have some kind of remote management hardware.

[Melfox]

I found a remote management PCIe card. http://www.aten.com/us/en/products/kvm/kvm-over-ip-switches/ip8000/#.WmnyQNt7HOQ Could it be a capability that could be put into any board with the addition of the card? To find these board, do I just search for server boards or is there a listing like on something like PC Part Picker that has some listed? That list is the only way I found the board that was listed above.

 

Found this board on SuperMicro's website: https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C236_C232/X11SAE-F.cfm

It's $247USD compared to $88USD on the board I was looking at. Is that price pretty consistent with other boards that have remote access capabilities? The remote management cards I'm seeing on Amazon range from $150-320USD so it sort of makes sense to me if I choose to start with that capability.

[Windows7ge]

For a custom built NAS IPMI can be a very handy tool. There's supermicro which is a very well known manufacturer of enterprise grade server motherboards but personally I've gone with ASRock Rack. Their IPMI is easy to set up, understand, and remotely manage the server (Java required). I've also had good luck with their RMA service. I had a board fail 1.5 years into use with a 2 year warranty. They replaced it with no hassle.

 

I'm not sure about UnRAID but with FreeNAS you'll want ECC (Error Correcting) memory and a Intel Xeon CPU with ECC support not a desktop CPU like you listed. UnRAID I think would benefit from ECC and a proper server CPU as well.

 

I don't know many of UnRAID's features but something I'd recommend against is utilizing it just so you can mix drives of different sizes. That's basically JBOD (Just a Bunch of Disks) a super outdated un-recommended form of RAID. A proper array should use drives of similar spec.

 

Again I don't know about UnRAID but FreeNAS has the option to create multiple shares which can be assigned to independent RAIDs or broken down from a single large array (similar to partitioning). These can be assigned owners or groups and even password protected for the local network. You can enable SSH (Secure Shell) to allow you to remote into the server and have access to each share that you have permission to access.

[Doomed83]

FYI the i5-8400 is not compatible with the H270 chipset. The 8th generation chips currently are only supported by the Z370 chipset, although there should be some cheaper options coming soon.

[Melfox]

Thanks. So processors have to be compatible with the chipsets as well as bracket? I was just looking for LGA1151. Do firmware updates change compatibility or will the 8th gen chips only be compatible with Z370? Similarly, is the IPMI stuff fairly secure? What I've read about passing the system through my firewall makes it seem like anything like that would be a terrible idea without security measures I don't know how to implement.

 

The main complaint I have with FreeNAS from my research is the lack of expandability. As far as I can tell, the only way to expand an array is to replace all the drives with higher capacity drives or add another array, for example replace 4x4TB drives in RAID 5 with 4x6TB drives in RAID 5 or build another RAID5 to be linked with the old one. I could be wrong though. Just with my uncertainty with what I will do with this system long term I'm a bit nervous with pinning myself in with whatever array/drive combo I do now. Is my understanding incorrect?

 

I appreciate the assistance. Learning lots.

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, Melfox said:

Thanks. So processors have to be compatible with the chipsets as well as bracket? I was just looking for LGA1151. Do firmware updates change compatibility or will the 8th gen chips only be compatible with Z370? Similarly, is the IPMI stuff fairly secure? What I've read about passing the system through my firewall makes it seem like anything like that would be a terrible idea without security measures I don't know how to implement.

 

The main complaint I have with FreeNAS from my research is the lack of expandability. As far as I can tell, the only way to expand an array is to replace all the drives with higher capacity drives or add another array, for example replace 4x4TB drives in RAID 5 with 4x6TB drives in RAID 5 or build another RAID5 to be linked with the old one. I could be wrong though. Just with my uncertainty with what I will do with this system long term I'm a bit nervous with pinning myself in with whatever array/drive combo I do now. Is my understanding incorrect?

 

I appreciate the assistance. Learning lots.

8th gen chips will only be compatible with 300 series chipsets (H310, H370, B350, Z370), although only the z370 exists at the moment. 

 

Well, I wouldn't recommend exposing IPMI to the internet -- I would just setup a VPN on the NAS or on the router if it's supported. Then you can just VPN into your home network to remotely access the server. 

 

Well, as you mentioned, you can just create a second array when you want to add more drives. 

[Melfox]

Would the second array be able to be incorporated into the share along with the first so it still appears to me as a single disk image? One of the long term goals as I mentioned is to consolidate all of the external drives I have so I don't want to run into the same scenario years down the line with several disk images to store one category of file.

 

Thanks for the chipset info. I guess even if I stick with a non-server board I still need to change to a Z370 Pro 4 board. That's a slight change of price as well.

[Windows7ge]

8 hours ago, Melfox said:

The main complaint I have with FreeNAS from my research is the lack of expandability. As far as I can tell, the only way to expand an array is to replace all the drives with higher capacity drives or add another array, for example replace 4x4TB drives in RAID 5 with 4x6TB drives in RAID 5 or build another RAID5 to be linked with the old one. I could be wrong though. Just with my uncertainty with what I will do with this system long term I'm a bit nervous with pinning myself in with whatever array/drive combo I do now. Is my understanding incorrect?

One of the reasons people like FreeNAS is because of how flexible it is with its RAID shares and because it uses ZFS (the format in which the RAID exists. It includes error correcting and a lot of other features) and you CAN add drives to existing arrays (you'll have to wait a while for the array to re-stripe itself across the new discs.) but you'll want a similar spec drive to the other drives being used. I've never tried mixing drives of different sizes. I can say though with that kind of configuration performance wise and reliability wise would be sub-par. JBOD doesn't offer redundancy. UnRAID may be special in its ability to mix drives of different sizes but if it's just using classic JBOD then it's basically a crap RAID0 where if any drive fails, all your data is lost.

 

And no, creating a second share to run along size the original on FreeNAS won't show as one usable network drive. It'd show up as two. One for each independent array.

[Melfox]

Hm. Thanks for the information. Multiple shares for a single use is the exact opposite of what I hope to use it for, so I may have to switch to FreeNAS down the road when I get a hold on how big I want these shares to be.

 

For a general question, with matching up processors and motherboards how can I tell what chipset processor requires? I can't find anything on intel's website saying the i5-8400 only works with 300 series chipsets. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/processors/core/i5-processors/i5-8400.html I believe people that it does, I just want to know how to know that for myself for future comparisons.

[Doomed83]

So from that product page it is complete crap to find the info. You have to click or scroll down to support. Click on "Product support". Click or scroll down to "Compatibility" Then Click on " Compatibility of Desktop 8th Generation Intel® Core™ Processors "

 

Then you find out that it's indeed not compatible with any intel 100 or 200 series chipsets.

[Windows7ge]

5 hours ago, Melfox said:

Hm. Thanks for the information. Multiple shares for a single use is the exact opposite of what I hope to use it for, so I may have to switch to FreeNAS down the road when I get a hold on how big I want these shares to be.

ZFS stands for Zettabyte File System. Even with the highest capacity drives you can't fill a server with that much storage but besides that supposedly you could create a share up-to 1 zettabyte in size. So there's no bottleneck but UnRAID should be capable of huge capacities as well.

[Melfox]

Doomed83, thanks for the information.

 

Quote

ZFS stands for Zettabyte File System. Even with the highest capacity drives you can't fill a server with that much storage but besides that supposedly you could create a share up-to 1 zettabyte in size. So there's no bottleneck but UnRAID should be capable of huge capacities as well.

Either one would be able to easily handle to amount of data I'm looking to store. My concern is more on expandability. As I don't know how much I will need, for right now I'm sort of just picking a number that sounds good. One way or another I'm either going to have to expand capacity for capacity's sake or expand capacity for more uses. Since I don't know what I will need, it looks like UnRAID will give me that ability to sort of play around with it until I get it right, especially since one of my goals is to rid myself of having the same files on 4 different drives and forgetting where something is. But it sounds like FreeNAS may be the better solution down the road once I firm out my requirements so I can get the speed benefits of RAID.

 

Quote

8th gen chips will only be compatible with 300 series chipsets (H310, H370, B350, Z370), although only the z370 exists at the moment. 

 

Well, I wouldn't recommend exposing IPMI to the internet -- I would just setup a VPN on the NAS or on the router if it's supported. Then you can just VPN into your home network to remotely access the server. 

Looked around at super micro at some Z370 boards and I think IPMI might be a bit beyond my capabilities right now with the added cost and lack of availability. That might be something I upgrade to. Looks like I can get a non server board that works for me at around $90-100 USD without trying for IPMI.

 

What's the benefit of an E3 processor compared to an i5 for storage/backup servers? They seem to be almost double the cost at the same performance if I'm not using ECC RAM.