would xeon be a valid idea for a workstation

[aries757]

@CUDA_Cores so this forum on Linustechtips.com got me thinking

 

this whole time i've been wondering whether i should be going with the new ryzen series or coffee lake series.. when i should be wondering if an old ass xeon 10 core would be better

 

now here's the question...

 

would some raggety ass Intel Xeon E7-2860  do the trick?

 

i'm not sure

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

It's a Westmere core, so any first gen i7's should give you an idea of how it performs (scale to more cores as appropriate)

 

But otherwise it'll only be useful in workloads that are highly threaded.

[manikyath]

an old ass xeon would be cheap, hot, and considerably slower than something like ryzen or coffee lake.

 

but hey, its cheap

[NoxiousOdor]

8 minutes ago, manikyath said:

an old ass xeon would be cheap, hot, and considerably slower than something like ryzen or coffee lake.

 

but hey, its cheap

I disagree with the OP's xeon choice but in multi-threaded workloads a 10 core xeon will smash ryzen in plenty of applications. It won't be slower in everything especially when talking about workstation use cases. Please don't generalize performance

[manikyath]

15 minutes ago, WhisperingKnickers said:

I disagree with the OP's xeon choice but in multi-threaded workloads a 10 core xeon will smash ryzen in plenty of applications. It won't be slower in everything especially when talking about workstation use cases. Please don't generalize performance

lets just optimistically state that IPC on westmere is better than clarkdale, using this core i3 as a very wonky placeholder because it is the closest i could find on userbenchmark:

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-7-1700X-vs-Intel-Core-i3-550/3915vsm632

 

multiply that i3 times 5, and you're just about scraping the multicore performance on an r7-1700x, not quite anywhere near "smashing" it.

 

xeons are very useful yes, but 7 year old ones lose their value rather quickly

 

EDIT: what the fuck is my paste button doing.. wrong link, i fixed

[Droidbot]

x5690 @ 4.4Ghz scores 1012 in Cinebench (Westmere) 

 

E5-1650 v1 @ 4.5 scores 1170 in Cinebench (Sandy-E) 

 

R5-1600 @ 3.2 scores 1130 in Cinebench (Zen, ram 2933)

 

R5-1600 @ 3.7 scores 1223 in Cinebench (Zen, ram 2666)

 

Keep this in mind. Sandy offers a decent budget option especially if you have a lot of DDR3 still. IPC is okay. 

For the mobo situation, these Chinese Huanan boards on eBay are around $80-100usd and can hit 4.4Ghz with a 3930k/e5-1650, which both are around $100USD. You could also use ecc DDR3 which is cheap as chips used. 

 

 

 

 

 

[NoxiousOdor]

1 hour ago, manikyath said:

lets just optimistically state that IPC on westmere is better than clarkdale, using this core i3 as a very wonky placeholder because it is the closest i could find on userbenchmark:

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-7-1700X-vs-Intel-Core-i3-550/3915vsm632

 

multiply that i3 times 5, and you're just about scraping the multicore performance on an r7-1700x, not quite anywhere near "smashing" it.

 

xeons are very useful yes, but 7 year old ones lose their value rather quickly

 

EDIT: what the fuck is my paste button doing.. wrong link, i fixed

Fair enough, it would be closer than I was thinking it would be. If the OP isn't worried about upgradability (my final nemesis) then it could be considerably more affordable to get a used xeon which would make it appealing. Especially considering they can be so close in performance like you pointed out.

 

 

57 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

x5690 @ 4.4Ghz scores 1012 in Cinebench (Westmere) 

 

E5-1650 v1 @ 4.5 scores 1170 in Cinebench (Sandy-E) 

 

R5-1600 @ 3.2 scores 1130 in Cinebench (Zen, ram 2933)

 

R5-1600 @ 3.7 scores 1223 in Cinebench (Zen, ram 2666)

 

Keep this in mind. Sandy offers a decent budget option especially if you have a lot of DDR3 still. IPC is okay. 

For the mobo situation, these Chinese Huanan boards on eBay are around $80-100usd and can hit 4.4Ghz with a 3930k/e5-1650, which both are around $100USD. You could also use ecc DDR3 which is cheap as chips used. 

 

 

 

 

 

A good thing to keep in mind is that you can get a dual socket board on ebay for $100 and for another $100 or less you can get two of the x5690 and two of those together at stock will get over 1500 on cinebench.

 

If OP is worried about upgradability I admit I would not recommend that build

[bimmerman]

Old Xeons can be a great value for a budget workstation or to extend the life of a HEDT platform rig.

 

If you want something powerful and reliable (i.e. no overclocking), then there are other options that will be faster performers (like, newer xeons, i7/i9s, Ryzen/Ryzen pro, Threadripper, etc). If you're OK with overclocking....you're really not building a true workstation. You're building an enthusiast's project.

[Canada EH]

4 hours ago, aries757 said:

xeon

Buy this pc

Refurbished: DELL Desktop Computer Precision T3500 Intel Xeon W3503 (2.40 GHz) 12 GB DDR3 1 TB HDD NVIDIA Quadro FX3500 Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit   $195^.70 

It is lga-1366

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Xeon_microprocessors#"Bloomfield"_(45_nm)

and throw in a Xeon X56## cpu

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Xeon_microprocessors#Xeon_5000-series_(dual-processor)

 

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Xeon-W3503-vs-Intel-Xeon-X5660/m3723vsm17750

 

or a 3rd gen i7 PC

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-3770-vs-Intel-Xeon-X5660/1979vsm17750

 

 

Refurbished: Dell Optiplex 7010 i7 3770, 4GB RAM, 500GB HD Win Pro 10 - $255^.00 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors#"Ivy_Bridge"_(22_nm)

LGA-1155

 

 

Refurbished: Dell Optiplex 7010 SFF Business PC Intel Core i7-3770 3.4GHz 4GB 250GB Win 7 Pro 1 Yr Wty $234^.99 

^^^^ Of course buy some extra ram!

Or buy pc with 8gb already (below)

Refurbished: DELL Optiplex 7010 Desktop PC / Intel Core i7 3rd Gen 3770 (3.40 GHz) / 8 GB RAM / 500 GB HDD / Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit / USB Wifi Adapter Included - $269^.99

 

4th gen i7

Refurbished: HP Elitedesk 800 G1 SFF i7-4770 3.4GHz 8GB RAM 500GB HDD Win 10 Professional - $319^.50

 

Gives you a bump in cpu in LGA-1150

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-3770-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4770/1979vs1978

 

 

Or build Ryzen for $400+

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/b9c9qk

 

 

[manikyath]

7 hours ago, WhisperingKnickers said:

Fair enough, it would be closer than I was thinking it would be. If the OP isn't worried about upgradability (my final nemesis) then it could be considerably more affordable to get a used xeon which would make it appealing. Especially considering they can be so close in performance like you pointed out.

but anything single threaded will be a pain, finding a fitting movo will be tricky, finding the right RAM is probably not gonna be fun, expoect to need a sound card because the mobo probably wont have that, other I/O like USB will probably be limited, and so on.

 

comparing the single threaded performance of before mentioned xeon to before mentioned i3 may also be rather optimistic. i cant find any benchmarks on the xeon, but you have to take in mind that the clarkdale i3 is running at 3.2GHz, and the xeon is running at 2.2GHz.

[NoxiousOdor]

7 hours ago, manikyath said:

but anything single threaded will be a pain, finding a fitting movo will be tricky, finding the right RAM is probably not gonna be fun, expoect to need a sound card because the mobo probably wont have that, other I/O like USB will probably be limited, and so on.

 

comparing the single threaded performance of before mentioned xeon to before mentioned i3 may also be rather optimistic. i cant find any benchmarks on the xeon, but you have to take in mind that the clarkdale i3 is running at 3.2GHz, and the xeon is running at 2.2GHz.

Some people don't mind the extra work if it is the cheaper alternative, myself for example, though I realize it isn't for everyone I am just throwing it out there as a budget option. Even with possibly needing a soundcard ($20) and a usb3 pcie adaptor ($20) it would still be cheaper than some other options especially if the budget is a concern. Speaking of budget I just realized the OP never mentioned one so it might be a moot point anyway.

 

Like I mentioned before too I disagree with their choice of xeon. It isn't hard to get 3.46ghz xeons for anywhere from $5-50. And if they get a different one from the on listed in the post then it really isnt that hard to find dual socket motherboards. I can tell you that from my own benchmarks that even going back as far as westmere single/multi threaded performance isn't bad if you know what chips to get. Modern chips will almost certainly be technically better but the old ones are by no means bad. Real world performance hasn't changed all that much in the last several years. Even for things like gaming, I used to use a stock x5690 to run games and it did fine on 1080p max settings in games. I didn't notice any performance issues whatsoever. At 1440p or higher I bet it would until you overclocked it but if someone is looking in the market for used xeons it is reasonable to assume that they won't be paying for the hardware to run things higher than 1440p anyway. Especially if it is for workstation use as mentioned.

[trevrez]

Another option for OP might be to consider or at least look to find what off lease DELL/HP/LENOVO pre-built workstations are available for cheap.

 

I recently picked up a Dell Percision T3500 Intel Xeon Quad Core W3550 3.06Ghz, 12GB ECC RAM, 500GB HDD , Quadro Grphics 4000 for $199 CDN with a 1 year hardware guarantee /warranty from the local computer shop selling it.  

 

It came with a WIN7 license, I tossed in a cheap SSD for the OS and called it a day.  4 core 8 thread system and 3 of the 6 ram slots are empty so been meaning to find some cheap ECC ram to upgrade that.  

 

I know most, including myself aren't really fans of prebuilt systems but sometimes when the price is right its the way to go.  I got a lot of performance for under $300 after taxes/SSD 

[NoxiousOdor]

3 minutes ago, trevrez said:

Another option for OP might be to consider or at least look to find what off lease DELL/HP/LENOVO pre-built workstations are available for cheap.

 

I recently picked up a Dell Percision T3500 Intel Xeon Quad Core W3550 3.06Ghz, 12GB ECC RAM, 500GB HDD , Quadro Grphics 4000 for $199 CDN with a 1 year hardware guarantee /warranty from the local computer shop selling it.  

 

It came with a WIN7 license, I tossed in a cheap SSD for the OS and called it a day.  4 core 8 thread system and 3 of the 6 ram slots are empty so been meaning to find some cheap ECC ram to upgrade that.  

 

I know most, including myself aren't really fans of prebuilt systems but sometimes when the price is right its the way to go.  I got a lot of performance for under $300 after taxes/SSD 

That is actually a pretty darn good deal

[Admiral Breaker]

4 minutes ago, WhisperingKnickers said:

That is actually a pretty darn good deal

I would take a look at Arrow Direct they specialize in assest recovery and are Microsoft Authroized Refurbisher. My employer is a Registered Refurbisher and we just got a few machines rocking i3 3rd gens from a company that had us do a computer pickup. Also check out local places too like Craigslist, and of course ebay. A good seller I would look at is The Server Store. I hope this helps 

[NoxiousOdor]

1 minute ago, Admiral Breaker said:

I would take a look at Arrow Direct they specialize in assest recovery and are Microsoft Authroized Refurbisher. My employer is a Registered Refurbisher and we just got a few machines rocking i3 3rd gens from a company that had us do a computer pickup. Also check out local places too like Craigslist, and of course ebay. A good seller I would look at is The Server Store. I hope this helps 

Thanks for the recommendations I will check those out for sure