re applying heat sink without applying new thermal paste?

[Ridaa]

Good day all.

I recently bought pc parts and just build my first pc today. All went well, the fans spin, lights go on and all but it will not post. I have the MSI tomahawk B350 MOBA and the red led for cpu stays on. After a while of searching what i can do to solve this issue i came up with two options.

Option 1: my ram might not be compatible with my mother board and i should try a new ram( keeping in mind i dont have the money to simply go out and buy new ram and hope for the best). the ram i have is the corsair vengeance 1x 8gb at 2400 mghz.

Option 2: i read that some people simply removed the heat sink and just re inserted the same cpu and it worked. now coming to my question.

Is it okay to remove the cpu fan adjust the cpu, and simply just put the fan back on without removing and re applying thermal paste? i dont have thermal paste and keep in mind i literally just build it yesterday so the thermal paste is not old and still fresh.

 

my specs of my pc is :

MSI tomahawk B350 moba  

corsair vengeance 1x 8gb at 2400 mghz ram

Ryzen 5 1500x

Asus gtx 1050ti OC 4 gb 

 

If you have any other solutions please  i am open to suggestions.

Thanks 

 

[johndms]

2 minutes ago, Ridaa said:

Option 2: i read that some people simply removed the heat sink and just re inserted the same cpu and it worked. now coming to my question.

Is it okay to remove the cpu fan adjust the cpu, and simply just put the fan back on without removing and re applying thermal paste? i dont have thermal paste and keep in mind i literally just build it yesterday so the thermal paste is not old and still fresh.

I would only do this as a last resort. But don't attempt to do it without applying fresh TIM. I remember the stock cooler being fairly easy to mount. If you think you messed something up, then redo it with fresh TIM, otherwise, leave it alone.

 

Nearly EVERY case of new systems not posting is memory related. Ryzen is TERRIBLE with memory compatibility. Sadly, it seems most of those use corsair vengeance. Put your single stick of ram in board slot DIMMA2. Double check because it does matter. Unplug the PSU and remove the CMOS battery for 5 minutes. Re-insert battery and plug in the PSU. Turn it on and wait up to 10 minutes. It may take that long for the first post. If this doesn't work, you'll need to try different ram. Borrow from someone. Maybe a local PC repair shop. Don't remove the CPU until you've exhausted all other options.

 

Try removing the GPU and reinserting. That's easy enough. Double check your monitor is plugged into the GPU not Motherboard. Simple mistake often made. Ryzen has no integrated graphics.

 

If it posts and you're able to get into the bios, update it immediately to the most recent version.

[johndms]

I'm sure someone will mention it, so I'll do it first. Recheck your 24-pin and 8-pin connections. People often overlook the 8-pin completely.

[Ridaa]

1 minute ago, johndms said:

I would only do this as a last resort. But don't attempt to do it without applying fresh TIM. I remember the stock cooler being fairly easy to mount. If you think you messed something up, then redo it with fresh TIM, otherwise, leave it alone.

 

Nearly EVERY case of new systems not posting is memory related. Ryzen is TERRIBLE with memory compatibility. Sadly, it seems most of those use corsair vengeance. Put your single stick of ram in board slot DIMMA2. Double check because it does matter. Unplug the PSU and remove the CMOS battery for 5 minutes. Re-insert battery and plug in the PSU. Turn it on and wait up to 10 minutes. It may take that long for the first post. If this doesn't work, you'll need to try different ram. Borrow from someone. Maybe a local PC repair shop. Don't remove the CPU until you've exhausted all other options.

 

Try removing the GPU and reinserting. That's easy enough. Double check your monitor is plugged into the GPU not Motherboard. Simple mistake often made. Ryzen has no integrated graphics.

 

If it posts and you're able to get into the bios, update it immediately to the most recent version.

I've tried putting the ram in all different slots and the only slot it fits in without the dram debugging led popping up is in the #rd slot oddly enough. i am about 90% sure i did everything right concerning cpu installation. only doubting now cause of threads I read where people say they just re installed it. 

does the cpu led debugging light relate to ram not being compatible? I cant get my head around that.

[Ridaa]

2 minutes ago, johndms said:

I'm sure someone will mention it, so I'll do it first. Recheck your 24-pin and 8-pin connections. People often overlook the 8-pin completely.

Un plugged it and plugged it it like 3 times for both. 

 

[johndms]

1 minute ago, Ridaa said:

does the cpu led debugging light relate to ram not being compatible? I cant get my head around that.

I'm no expert, but I would assume it's possible. The CPU has an integrated memory controller, so somehow if the memory is incompatible, maybe the CPU panics thinking there's no ram at all. Does that LED still light up with no ram at all?

[Ridaa]

2 minutes ago, johndms said:

I'm no expert, but I would assume it's possible. The CPU has an integrated memory controller, so somehow if the memory is incompatible, maybe the CPU panics thinking there's no ram at all. Does that LED still light up with no ram at all?

The cpu led lights up with no ram at all but the dram led does not light up when there is no ram in. The dram led only lights up when i put the stick in all the slots except the 3rd one 

.

[Ridaa]

The ram i have does not show on my mother board QVL though. But have read that QVL list is just a small list of tested rams and shouldnt really be taken as a go to guide on what ram works.

True or not?

[dcgreen2k]

@johndms sorry, but you kinda make it seem like removing the CPU is hard and dangerous. If the CPU led is on, the logical thing to do is reseat the CPU and the RAM just to make sure it's in properly. 

 

Second of all, yes, you sure can use old thermal paste. I was installing a new Core 2 Quad and I realized that I didn't have any of it. So, I used a razor blade to take the 10 year old (seriously) thermal crust off a Core 2 Duo and put it on the new CPU, which had a 95watt tdp. Temps never went above 70C with Dell's stock cooler, a bit like a smaller and lower-quality Cryorig H7. After I got rid of the thermal crust, I used a mixture of toothpaste and Vaseline as thermal paste, which again, turned into crust in about a month.

 

In short:

Reseat the CPU

You can use old thermal paste

[johndms]

10 minutes ago, thegreengamers said:

@johndms sorry, but you kinda make it seem like removing the CPU is hard and dangerous. If the CPU led is on, the logical thing to do is reseat the CPU and the RAM just to make sure it's in properly. 

Second of all, yes, you sure can use old thermal paste. I was installing a new Core 2 Quad and I realized that I didn't have any thermal paste! So, I used a razor blade to take the 10 year old (seriously) thermal crust off a Core 2 Duo and put it on the new CPU, which had a 95watt tdp. Temps never went above 70C with Dell's stock cooler, a bit like a smaller and lower-quality Cryorig H7. After I got rid of the thermal crust, I used a mixture of toothpaste and Vaseline as thermal paste, which again, turned into crust in about a month.

 

In short:

Reseat the CPU

You can use old thermal paste

I apologize if I led you to believe I think removing the CPU is a difficult task, it's not. But this person has no extra TIM and I disagree with reusing the same application. Air bubbles and potential higher temps. It's not difficult to simply purchase a tube from a local computer shop and do it the correct way. This is just my personal opinion.

 

Also, I research my advice before posting. I may not do the best research and I skimmed through the post, but the following link shows someone complaining of CPU LED and at the bottom of the page has several people claiming ram was the problem

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3430094/msi-b350-tomahawk-ryzen-1700-debug-cpu-fail-led.html

 

From my numerous experiences with Ryzen and Non-POST issues, it's almost ALWAYS memory related. If this guy doesn't have fresh TIM, why not try to eliminate the most common problems first and only removing the CPU if nothing else works?

[dcgreen2k]

3 minutes ago, johndms said:

Snip

Yep, removing the CPU is a 5 minute job if you know what you're doing. RAM is usually the issue when a PC won't boot, and don't reuse thermal paste unless you really need to.

[Ridaa]

Ive a lot about how msi is really finicky with ram compatibility. As well as the air bubbles thing if i had to just apply the heatsink with the old TIM. 

I might have a friend who will lend me his ddr4 ram tomorrow to test it out but the only thing is he doent not know the brand of it and since msi has crap ram compatibility there is chance it might not work as well. I am a bit impatient and wanted to get some opinions on the only option that i have to use at this current moment.

[johndms]

7 minutes ago, Ridaa said:

Ive a lot about how msi is really finicky with ram compatibility. As well as the air bubbles thing if i had to just apply the heatsink with the old TIM. 

I might have a friend who will lend me his ddr4 ram tomorrow to test it out but the only thing is he doent not know the brand of it and since msi has crap ram compatibility there is chance it might not work as well. I am a bit impatient and wanted to get some opinions on the only option that i have to use at this current moment.

That would be my recommendation. Try his ram and combinations of yours + his. Slots A2 and B2 are the recommended slots for two sticks. Worst case scenario, if it works, it'll be at 2133MHz with crap timings. But at least you'll be able to update the bios for improved memory compatibility. Maybe then your ram will work. These forums are full of people with Ryzen issues with memory, but many were resolved with updating the bios. Good luck and keep us informed. (quote a post so we'll be alerted)

[Ridaa]

Will keep you posted, hopefully tomorrow i will get results.

Thanks for the additional help. Really appreciate it. 

wish i knew about ryzen issues before i went with them sigh. 

[SupaKomputa]

 

1 hour ago, johndms said:

But this person has no extra TIM and I disagree with reusing the same application. Air bubbles and potential higher temps.

No problem using old thermal paste as long as it still "sticky wet" not dried up. And there's no danger in having air bubbles inside. Its not like nuclear dangerous, don't worry to much. 

 

from my years of dealing with PC, i never have any problems installing cpus. there's only 1 direction / position, and if it can be slotted / locked in the socket then its correctly installed. if not then your current cpu must've had some broken pins from the forced entry. how can you manage to put it on the wrong direction / position?

2 hours ago, Ridaa said:

I've tried putting the ram in all different slots and the only slot it fits in without the dram debugging led popping up is in the #rd slot oddly enough. i am about 90% sure i did everything right concerning cpu installation. only doubting now cause of threads I read where people say they just re installed it. 

does the cpu led debugging light relate to ram not being compatible? I cant get my head around that.

And what the debugging led tells you?

Do you have any sound (beep) from your pc when boot up?

No need to reinstall cpu if its correctly installed, whats the point?

 

have you installed this thing right here?

[Ridaa]

On ‎2017‎/‎12‎/‎17 at 6:27 AM, johndms said:

That would be my recommendation. Try his ram and combinations of yours + his. Slots A2 and B2 are the recommended slots for two sticks. Worst case scenario, if it works, it'll be at 2133MHz with crap timings. But at least you'll be able to update the bios for improved memory compatibility. Maybe then your ram will work. These forums are full of people with Ryzen issues with memory, but many were resolved with updating the bios. Good luck and keep us informed. (quote a post so we'll be alerted)

sorry took me this long to get back.

I bought a new ram and luckily it turns out the it was simply a matter of my ram not being compatible with my motherboard. My pc is up and running now with my new ram and it runs like a dream. Went through a few hick ups my can proudly say my first pc build is amazing. thanks for all the help, really appreciate it.

[johndms]

5 hours ago, Ridaa said:

sorry took me this long to get back.

I bought a new ram and luckily it turns out the it was simply a matter of my ram not being compatible with my motherboard. My pc is up and running now with my new ram and it runs like a dream. Went through a few hick ups my can proudly say my first pc build is amazing. thanks for all the help, really appreciate it.

That's awesome, I'm glad it's working.

 

For anyone else who may come across this thread using your board (MSI B350 Tomahawk), could you post the model number of your ram kit? It may help someone to know the exact ram kit that is known to work.