8700k Vs Ryzen (New Build)

[GrandFatMan]

Okay, So i've been trying to do some extensive research, and i'm prepared to "up" my budget. But was wondering what you guys thought in my process. 

I'm building a new system (Nothing to upgrade from, except a really crappy laptop, AMD APU) So see it from a "fresh build" point of view. 

Ryzen 1600 or 8700k. 

Working out the finances, it would come to an extra £200 to go for the 8700k. IPC wise intel definitley seems to dominate. Use case is Gaming + Light to medium content creation. Want the system to last a while. Don't want to buy a new CPU in the next 3-4 years. Ideally. 

Ryzen definitley seem's to have the bang for the buck, but the Intel it would seem has a better longevity. I realize this is a "hot" topic right now. But i've actually put off my build by a few months to consider my options. GPU would be a 980Ti (Falls within budget) I don't see the point in going 8 core ryzen for the price jump. I don't believe R7 makes sense Price to Performance with the results of the 8700k.  I think if it was a case between R7 and 8700k, the choice would certainly be Intel, saying that. The reason i'm considering the Ryzen 1600 platform is upgrade path, 4 years, or so they say. On the other hand Intel seem to have had a fair bit of backlash for crapping out on z270 platform, so that worries me they will do it with z370 (Also note, i've never owned Intel, Only ever had AMD, so even to be considering the blue team is an alien concept to me.) So does that mean z370 should support a few gens? Or would i even need to upgrade in the next 5 years if i went for the 8700k. It seems to be pulling close to I9 performance? 

Another concern is that the 8700k definatley seems to run hotter than the Ryzen. Acoustics don't really bother me (fan noise) and plan to get a 240 aio. No intention or desire to De-lid. But would like to try my hand at an overclock (never OC'd a CPU before) 

I'm on the fence. 60% blue 40% red. 

Would appreciate well thought answers, not just fanboy answers. Red or Blue, brand loyalty, I don't care. I'm in it for the most sensible option. Not who made it. 

[HKZeroFive]

The general rule for Intel chipsets is to only expect them to support the processors that they were designed for. While AM4 has guaranteed support until 2020, don't expect Intel to continue support for the Z370 chipset because it's most likely they won't.

 

It's a rather unfair comparison to match the R5 1600 against the i7-8700K. Despite what you said, the R7 1700 still makes sense to buy since its multithreaded performance, as a result of its eight cores and sixteen threads, remains competitive.

 

In the end, buy the processor that suits your needs now. If you can fork out the cash for it, then get the i7-8700K.

[GrandFatMan]

Unfair in raw performance, i agree it's an unfair comparison, however, both will meet my needs at the current level i'm doing things. It was more about does the 8700k make sense over the Ryzen chip. I'm seeing them both as 6 core 12 thread, not as this price vs that price. The intel clearly outwins in performance over the ryzen, but does it make sense to buy into the blue platform. 8 / 16 would be nice, but i still think the 8700k would make better sense at that price point. or not?  I'm not a competitive gamer so i don't need frames in the hundreds. I can get either system, budget is somewhat flexible. It's just what makes better sense. Do i go for a guaranteed upgrade path with AMD or do I go with a chip that performs better now, but has no concrete upgrade-ability. 

[Cyracus]

If you aren't looking for high refresh gaming ryzen will work great. Don't expect z370 to get a better cpu than the 8700k though. If you decide to get the 1700 for better productivity power probably best to get a x370 board so you can OC it farther

[GrandFatMan]

I think for me it's about the long term. Not just upgrade path, but long term in regards to not having to buy another component in the next few years. And Intel seems to offer that off the bat with the raw performance of the 8700k. 

I personally wish they had gone 6/12 on i5 and 8/16 on i7. Then the choice would have been a bit clearer. 

[HKZeroFive]

22 minutes ago, GrandFatMan said:

Unfair in raw performance, i agree it's an unfair comparison, however, both will meet my needs at the current level i'm doing things. It was more about does the 8700k make sense over the Ryzen chip. I'm seeing them both as 6 core 12 thread, not as this price vs that price. The intel clearly outwins in performance over the ryzen, but does it make sense to buy into the blue platform. 8 / 16 would be nice, but i still think the 8700k would make better sense at that price point. or not?  I'm not a competitive gamer so i don't need frames in the hundreds. I can get either system, budget is somewhat flexible. It's just what makes better sense. Do i go for a guaranteed upgrade path with AMD or do I go with a chip that performs better now, but has no concrete upgrade-ability. 

Rather comparing core-to-core, you should be comparing price-to-price. Of course the choice will be clear in the first situation but that doesn't matter if there's price gap in the first place.

 

Like I said, buy into the platform that satisfies your needs now. That happens to be the Intel platform.

[PhaseShift]

If you really must squeeze out every possible frame at 1080p then go for intel. Otherwise imo ryzen is a better value option. You shouldn't discard the possibility of upgrading in 2-3 years. Paying a lower price for a value chip that serves you well now and upgrading sooner will always be a better value than going for the highest end chip and trying to keep it for 4+ years imo. Ultimately I think it comes down to the games you play and your refresh rate. Ryzen is very competative but intel can dish out more fps.

[GrandFatMan]

I forgot to mention I will be casual gaming at 1080, or at least no more than 1080 ultrawide. Ryzen is undoubtedly better value. But does the better performance of the 8700k justify the extra couple hundred quid. like i said, saving the extra 200 isn't really an issue.  

[GrandFatMan]

Games i want to play will almost certainly be helped with extra threads, but also IPC. Planet Coaster. Elite dangerous. Universe Sandbox 2 and Skylines etc. They are the games I want to play at the moment. Content creation will be 1080p in premiere, and Lightroom. 

[LienusLateTips]

4 minutes ago, GrandFatMan said:

Games i want to play will almost certainly be helped with extra threads, but also IPC. Planet Coaster. Elite dangerous. Universe Sandbox 2 and Skylines etc. They are the games I want to play at the moment. Content creation will be 1080p in premiere, and Lightroom. 

Judging from my experience Skylines prefers cores A LOT over IPC.

[Phate.exe]

27 minutes ago, GrandFatMan said:

Unfair in raw performance, i agree it's an unfair comparison, however, both will meet my needs at the current level i'm doing things. It was more about does the 8700k make sense over the Ryzen chip. I'm seeing them both as 6 core 12 thread, not as this price vs that price. The intel clearly outwins in performance over the ryzen, but does it make sense to buy into the blue platform. 8 / 16 would be nice, but i still think the 8700k would make better sense at that price point. or not?  I'm not a competitive gamer so i don't need frames in the hundreds. I can get either system, budget is somewhat flexible. It's just what makes better sense. Do i go for a guaranteed upgrade path with AMD or do I go with a chip that performs better now, but has no concrete upgrade-ability. 

If both will meet your needs, I'd probably go with the cheaper CPU (the 1600/1600X) and distribute the money saved on a nicer motherboard/GPU/cooler/beer to drink during assembly.  If you feel like the CPU is holding you back two years from now, the revised Zen chips will be out, and should be a bios-update away from dropping right into your system, which is pretty much what I'm planning on with mine.  AMD claims they're sticking with AM4 until DDR5 becomes a thing, so we've got a good few years there.

 

Ryzen has no problems with sub-100Hz gaming.

[GrandFatMan]

Now i'm thinking about 1700 vs the 8700k. Hmm. Choices, choices. I welcome the competition, but the choice making is certainly made harder. 

[Gaurav S Rao]

13 hours ago, GrandFatMan said:

Okay, So i've been trying to do some extensive research, and i'm prepared to "up" my budget. But was wondering what you guys thought in my process. 

I'm building a new system (Nothing to upgrade from, except a really crappy laptop, AMD APU) So see it from a "fresh build" point of view. 

Ryzen 1600 or 8700k. 

Working out the finances, it would come to an extra £200 to go for the 8700k. IPC wise intel definitley seems to dominate. Use case is Gaming + Light to medium content creation. Want the system to last a while. Don't want to buy a new CPU in the next 3-4 years. Ideally. 

Ryzen definitley seem's to have the bang for the buck, but the Intel it would seem has a better longevity. I realize this is a "hot" topic right now. But i've actually put off my build by a few months to consider my options. GPU would be a 980Ti (Falls within budget) I don't see the point in going 8 core ryzen for the price jump. I don't believe R7 makes sense Price to Performance with the results of the 8700k.  I think if it was a case between R7 and 8700k, the choice would certainly be Intel, saying that. The reason i'm considering the Ryzen 1600 platform is upgrade path, 4 years, or so they say. On the other hand Intel seem to have had a fair bit of backlash for crapping out on z270 platform, so that worries me they will do it with z370 (Also note, i've never owned Intel, Only ever had AMD, so even to be considering the blue team is an alien concept to me.) So does that mean z370 should support a few gens? Or would i even need to upgrade in the next 5 years if i went for the 8700k. It seems to be pulling close to I9 performance? 

Another concern is that the 8700k definatley seems to run hotter than the Ryzen. Acoustics don't really bother me (fan noise) and plan to get a 240 aio. No intention or desire to De-lid. But would like to try my hand at an overclock (never OC'd a CPU before) 

I'm on the fence. 60% blue 40% red. 

Would appreciate well thought answers, not just fanboy answers. Red or Blue, brand loyalty, I don't care. I'm in it for the most sensible option. Not who made it. 

Ok,listen.Intel is only going to support 300 series motherboards with the CPU's meant for their generation.They bring features but leave behind your old motherboards like how Mr. Blue ditched their less than a year old 200 series platform,no matter how expensive the motherboard was,while Mr.Red has guaranteed support for AM4 untill 2020,the expected release of DDR5.An AMD Ryzen system is the bang for the buck while intel,still more expensive but higher ipc/single threaded performance = better for gaming.AMD is good for streaming while intel is good for gaming.Another thing,never get the "X" ryzen cpu's (like 1600X) since they have a higher XFR which woundn't matter when overclocked.Yes the 8700k probably would run very hot,so get a AIO which will cool it much better.In gaming the 8700k beats even the i9 since more cores = doesnt mean higher performance.Ok in comparison

 

AMD R5 1600

1.Good value value

2.Good for streaming

3.AM4 support till 2020

4.Runs cooler (not sure)

 

Intel Core i7 8700k

1.Better in gaming

2.Good for streaming as well

3.Higher IPC and single threaded performance which is a benifit it single threaded performance

4.Intel Optane Memory

 

It's upto you basically.If you go the Intel route,you may have bugs since its a platform couple days old.hope now ibm doesn't make Z470 or X470 or whatever...  

[GrandFatMan]

optane doesn't really bother me. And i wont be gaming competetively, but i know that planet coaster especially can be demanding. But that also favours more threads. It's a balancing act. One i'm willing to wait for to make the right choice. The fact AM4 has support moving forward is a bigger appeal for me than higher IPC right now. But i don't want to shoot myself in the foot and wish i had gone for the higher IPC over the threads. But, thinking about it, my use case seems to prefer threads to ipc. 

[GrandFatMan]

Saying that. Does the IPC increase in the 6 / 12 8700k match or outweigh the performance of a 1700?

[Phobiarg]

28 minutes ago, GrandFatMan said:

Saying that. Does the IPC increase in the 6 / 12 8700k match or outweigh the performance of a 1700?

That depends on what you're doing with it. the 8700k will out perform the 1700 in most games and lower thread use applications. The 1700 will out perform that 8700k in high thread use applications. It's not a black and white one is better than the other, there are many shades of grey between the 2.

[GrandFatMan]

9 minutes ago, Phobiarg said:

That depends on what you're doing with it. the 8700k will out perform the 1700 in most games and lower thread use applications. The 1700 will out perform that 8700k in high thread use applications. It's not a black and white one is better than the other, there are many shades of grey between the 2.

And thats the hard part in choosing. My use case will favour both higher ipc and thread count depending on what i'm doing that day. 

[Fardin]

38 minutes ago, GrandFatMan said:

Saying that. Does the IPC increase in the 6 / 12 8700k match or outweigh the performance of a 1700?

8700k will outperform 1700 in pretty much everything, not just gaming so does cost extra. from my perspective if 8700k fits in your budget, just go for it & you will be good for 3 years. intel is more mature & stable platform with less issue. however if the budget gets tight to go with intel then go with ryzen..both are strong enough to meet your need. 

[Phobiarg]

Just now, GrandFatMan said:

And thats the hard part in choosing. My use case will favour both higher ipc and thread count depending on what i'm doing that day. 

Unfortunately no one here is going to be able to make that decision for you. We can give suggestions based on the information supplied by you. I see that you listed a handful of games you will be playing, but what else is this going to be used for? As it stands right now with the games you have listed the 1600 would be perfectly adequate for 1080p/60 on a 980ti.

[GrandFatMan]

1 minute ago, Phobiarg said:

Unfortunately no one here is going to be able to make that decision for you. We can give suggestions based on the information supplied by you. I see that you listed a handful of games you will be playing, but what else is this going to be used for? As it stands right now with the games you have listed the 1600 would be perfectly adequate for 1080p/60 on a 980ti.

Light to medium content creation in premiere. possibly some AAA titles. Never really been a huge gamer. But i wouldn't mind getting back into some gaming. Maybe even streaming too. The appeal is there for me. 

[GrandFatMan]

5 minutes ago, Fardin said:

8700k will outperform 1700 in pretty much everything, not just gaming so does cost extra. from my perspective if 8700k fits in your budget, just go for it & you will be good for 3 years. intel is more mature & stable platform with less issue. however if the budget gets tight to go with intel then go with ryzen..both are strong enough to meet your need. 

The budget isn't tight. It's flexible. But saying a blanket "8700k is better than 1700" i don't think is actually accurate. 

[Fardin]

3 minutes ago, GrandFatMan said:

The budget isn't tight. It's flexible. But saying a blanket "8700k is better than 1700" i don't think is actually accurate. 

sit a moment & watch this two videos & decide which you should go for. this will help you choose, not meant for gaming, productivity specially. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pKvFbW1vWI

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmEAzxIfeDo

 

[GrandFatMan]

Just now, Fardin said:

sit a moment & watch this two videos & decide which you should go for. this will help you choose, not meant for gaming, productivity specially. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pKvFbW1vWI

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmEAzxIfeDo

 

Seen them both. Still doesn't help. I guess its going to be either or. 

[Phobiarg]

What is your budget? You are saying its flexible, but what price do you have in mind? Do you have a monitor in mind? I see you say 1080p, is there any reason you're not looking at going higher like 1440p, 4k or 144+hz? Do you already own the 980ti?

[Fardin]

Just now, GrandFatMan said:

Seen them both. Still doesn't help. I guess its going to be either or. 

I am afraid I cant help much further then, but lets say, if I have no issue for budget, i would just get intel system (specially coffeelake now, no way kabylake platform), but if i had tight budget, I would definitely pick ryzen.